Does Becoming a New Creature in Christ Mean New DNA?
January 28, 2012 32 Comments
[UPDATE 12/13/14: Since more than a few readers did not understand that I was being facetious, let me make this crystal clear: WE DO NOT RECEIVE ANY SORT OF DNA CHANGE UPON CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY. Damon Thompson’s words here are absolute rubbish.]
“…Not only did her DNA not match the crime scene, her DNA didn’t match her DNA.”
– Damon Thompson of The Ramp
Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and switch on the TV. Last night while having yet another bit of insomnia I flipped through the channels landing at Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) finding Damon Thompson of The Ramp. I’ve heard him before and found him to be a bit ‘off’, but this time he said something that really woke me up. Not having pen and paper nearby, I wasn’t sure if I could write down exactly what he said; however, thankfully, someone has posted this very thing on YouTube so that I can post it here:
…not only did her DNA not match the crime scene, her DNA didn’t match her DNA. Six months earlier they had checked her DNA. Six months later they check her DNA and her DNA is not the same DNA because if any man be in Christ he is a new creature…
This raises all sorts of questions:
Should all believers expect impunity from crimes committed prior to conversion?
Does this mean that all ‘born again’ (born from above) believers have new DNA?
Should we check DNA of all inmates post-conversion and compare to DNA pre-conversion in order to set free all those whose DNA has changed? (This would sure make the Gospel very good news indeed and certainly lead to many more jailhouse conversions. :))
Would a DNA change then be the sure marker of a true convert?
Should we believe Damon Thompson and his story?
CrossWise 
Oh, my…it just keeps getting ‘curiouser and curiouser’…I don’t know which is sadder…the ‘preacher’ or the cheering ‘congregation’…..
LikeLike
I’d have to use the old saying here: “I’m from Missouri. Prove it!!”
LikeLike
Greetings, A great question. I do know that the new birht is where we have a new father and since we have his life I guess we have his blood too…. which of course is how our body is changed from corruption to incorruption…. thanks for provoking thought and I shall look our for more of your blog posts.
Have a blessed day
Paul
LikeLike
Paul,
Thanks for your response. Please note that I was being a bit facetious in my post as I don’t believe we receive new DNA after we become new creatures in Christ [2 Cor 5:17].
All humans are made in God’s image whether converted or not, however it’s only upon conversion that God truly becomes our Father as we become His adopted sons (and daughters). I don’t see any Scripture to suggest that we receive new blood (a transfusion?) upon conversion. I also don’t see any Scriptural evidence that our earthly body is changed in any form or fashion upon conversion.
Our resurrection body will certainly be different from our current body [1 Cor 15: 42- 54], yet it’s not a flesh and blood body which is raised [1 Cor 15:50]. Therefore, I’m not so sure we will take our DNA with us at the resurrection. I’m inclined to say that Scripture supports that we do not since it would seem that DNA is part of our flesh.
LikeLike
Is he Dwight Thompson’s son?
LikeLike
Sally,
Sorry, I don’t know the answer to your question. Anyone else?
LikeLike
What a creepy looking guy. Kind of looks like Charlie Manson. Wouldn’t want him teaching his false teaching to my kids!! Yikes!!!
LikeLike
Pingback: Can your DNA change? | KevStar.us
Dwight Thompson from TBN days…
LikeLike
That is who I was referring to iwantthetruth. So I still wonder if he is related to him? And Sue, I came from the hippie generation and I think he is kinda cute!!!
LikeLike
Sooo….if I’m worried that I have backslidden or my relatives are right about me being turned over to a reprobate mind, could I prove the theory right by seeing if my DNA matches my pre-age of accountability DNA (which brings with it its OWN set of questions)….in which case they’d be correct because I went back to my OLD physiology? Conversely, if my post-salvation DNA matches my current DNA, have I just settled the age-old “eternal security” argument?
LikeLike
Good points!
LikeLike
Ah, interesting you have gotten around to the “Ramp” crew. I actually used to watch the “Ramp” prior to mr. bentley’s show. drawn to the worship cuts and they often had “inspiring” quotes. The program itself simply takes select quotes of various sermons and you never get full impression.
First red light was after watched “Jesus Camp” which had a reaction in spirit, that there was stuff not of God, going on some evil. I had posted on forum questions to the “ramp” kids at that time. Some responded that it wasn’t like it seemed, and the kids are given much more cautious direction, not pushed or manipulated. So backed off for a bit. I did learn at that time that the “Becky Johnson” of “Jesus Camp” fame was affilliated with Patricia King, didn’t know what the big deal was at that time. Then Mr. Bently’s show came along, God made me aware of several things.
Later, went back, after they closed the forum down once, cut off criticism or questioning of mr. bentley on my end. The “ramp” kids defending Mr. Bentley strongly, btw. At any rate, came back to new forum and one “ramp” kid at the time talked of how believed there would be time when many would have “special powers” including “levitation” and such. I think I started a conversation at Crosswalk and any where could about.
Please know that the “Ramp” is full feldged “Joel’s Army.” They have had a virtual whos’ who of that crowd speak including Dutch Sheets who been there many times, shaking and all. Once when had the program on and mother-in-law was in room, she stated, “Don’t like him, something is not right.” She has some discernment and all. Now while Damon Thompson speaks at most of Ramp, Karen Wheaton is really the one behind that whole program. Most “Ramp” kids participated in “the call” back at that time as well.
Over the years since Mr. Bentley, the have changed there tag line and even website multiple times. They no longer have a forum. Here is their current tag:
The Ramp
The Ramp is a place of awakening in Hamilton, Alabama, where hundreds gather each month from across the nation and world to pursue the real Jesus. We’re loud. We’re aggressive. We hope to jolt the complacent out of stupor and into the reality of God. Our mission is to awaken a generation out of spiritual death and religious complacency, calling them to their individual purpose and corporate responsibility as an offensive army imposing the kingdom of God. Although youth and young adults primarily attend, the Ramp is not just a youth thing; it’s a hunger thing. It’s an awakening thing – it’s for all those in need of an awakening whose desire is to then turn and awaken others.
Now, see here is the deal, everything is coached in deeper commitment to God. It is focus on ‘youth’ and doing big things, and getting folks to attend their ongoing “live events” They started a “Ministry school” in 2010 much like IHOP, Morningstar, and Bethel and have had connections with all the same if not mistaken. Now, they do give a brief outline of the course progression at Ramp:http://theramp.org/school/curriculum/. And much like the quotes from program and other promotions, have a inkling of sounding good and sound. But it is still twisted and distorted at core. If you watch the school intro video, you will see at one point highlight of talk “Spiritual contact with our Heavenly father.” In the shown slide is a reference to 1 Cor 14:14 and then one say God the Father being called the Father of spirits in Hebrews 12:9.
The have one student commenting whatever “level” you come in at, you will be “accelerated”. One leader makes a comment that “prayer is tought by example.” There is obligatory reference of “the fire of revival”
He used to have a facebook page but he had made some controversial statements in the past year so I think they shut that down.
FYI here is a link worth checking out: http://thispilgrimland.com/?p=418
LikeLike
peacebringer,
Thanks for your perspective on this. On checking around a bit prior to posting this I did see a Joel’s Army connection and some controversy regarding The Ramp’s promotion of Bentley. And, I’ve heard enough of the show previously to know it’s all about the “fire of revival”. Isn’t fire usually a sign of judgment in the Scriptures? (Yes, with the exception of trials by fire, or being refined in the fire, but this is not what’s being referred to.)
LikeLike
I don’t believe we as Christians can have changed or new DNA down here because you cannot mix corruption with incorruption. The parable of the wineskins might fit well in this situation:
Mark 2: 22And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
This is the lie of the New Age or Secret Societies…that as above so below. Introduce something new into the old human DNA and you get a transhuman, you get a divine human. Not the teaching of the Bible, but since we are the triple helix generation, we are the generation of the lost who are trying to circumnavigate sin and death and bring about immortality by superior knowledge, genetic manipulation and forbidden practice.
On the other hand the Gospel teaches us when we will inherit incorruption….when the incorruption takes place…and it’s not here on earth.
1 Corinthians 15:52-54 (King James Version)
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
As for taking our unique DNA or life code with us, having it somehow transformed into incorruptible seed? Anything is possible with God.
LikeLike
Carolyn,
Thanks for your comments. Spiritual DNA will be covered in a separate article, but it seems you are already aware of how it does not hold up Biblically. The parable of the wineskins is basically about salvation. Here’s Craig A. Evans in the his commentary on Mark [WBC, 1989, Word Books Publishers, 1989, Dallas, TX; p 117]:
The…parables…about new and old wine make no value judgments about either. The theme of each is the incompatability and thus impossibility of combining new with the old. This theme corresponds directly with Jesus’ response to the question about fasting in 2:19a. John [the Baptist] and his disciples represent the old order. Fasting and wedding celebrations just do not go together. Regardless of the original context for these parables their point would have been the same and their use by Jesus in similar context most likely…the destructive consequence of trying to combine new and old wineskins parallels the consequence of the incompatability of Jesus’ ministry with that of his opponents. It led to the removal of the bridegroom and mourning.
The thrust of this pericope [2:18-22] is clearly Christological, despite all attempts to take the story etiologically for the Church’s practice of fasting. The nature of Jesus’ ministry sets implicit claim to the presence of something new, the new age [ED not New Age!] of salvation…The theme continues in the following story of their behavior on the Sabbath.
Now, interestingly, here’s the New Age explanation of the ‘parable of new wine’ [Matthew 9:16-18/Mark 2:22]:
The disciples of the world (with their nicely formulated ideals and their neatly expressed idealistic concepts) are oft glamoured by the future beauty because they are oblivious of the present opportunity. Many of them will find out later that they have been left behind as far as registering the new truths is concerned. To this Christ referred when He said that it was not possible to put new wine into old bottles for that which is old will be destroyed by the expanding new life. — A. A. Bailey Discipleship in the New Age, Volume I; 1944; p 86 [emphasis in original]
Most anyone who has ever been involved in hyper-charismaticism will recognize this teaching. The “new truths” are also known as “present truths” or “new revelations.” According to hyper-charismaticism, the “disciples of the world,” or “old bottles,” are those who stick to historic orthodox Christian doctrine which they claim is the “human wisdom” of I Corinthians 2:12-13 compared to their “wisdom by the Spirit” — new revelation. See “Christ Consciousness” section of “Christ” in the New Age for further explanation.
Also, note this was written just before the modern Latter Rain movement of 1948
LikeLike
Yes, isn’t it interesting how Satan blinds men’s minds to the real issues by sidetracking them into supernatural but earthly ambitions? Instead of the real message of Christ’s deity, they become spellbound with ecstatic distractions and fine sounding arguments.
As in the parable of the seed that was sown, the Word…the devil comes and takes the seed before it has time to take root because those who heard it have not taken the time to “understand” the gospel. The gospel is about the power of Christ to forgive sins.
This departure into some kind of superior, righteous DNA is just how foolish things can get. And it is, afterall, just an extension of the original lie. You shall be as gods. You shall not surely die. You shall know good from evil. Change the DNA and you will be an immortal able to achieve righteousness by your own means.
Christ said, if you do not believe me, you will die in your sins and you will not be able to tell good from evil.
John 8:23-25 (King James Version)
23And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
To miss the point of who Christ is, will lead the way into such fantastical illusions as believing that someone’s DNA has taken on a righteousness of its own. I’ll stick with the Word of Truth, thank you very much! Christ alone is our righteousness.
Craig, thanks for the link. I will read it later today.
LikeLike
Craig, I think I still have some DVR footage of good ol’ Bob Jones telling the students at BSSM the same Divine DNA “stuff” He even has them breathing on each other to “activate” the dormant strands of their DNA. I’m pretty sure he thinks the Divine nature is lying dormant in us and it consists of the dormant strands of our DNA. It was the first time I’ve seen the students appear to feel uneasy with a mystical activity. I’ve tried to dig up more on this Divine DNA stuff but it may be that its just recently been “bleeding” into the NAR camp from the New Age crowd.I’m inclined to think it may become more prevalent if it gets traction. At least ol’ Bob Jones seems to be talking about it more frequently. I’m guessing they’re looking for as many possible avenues to reintroduce the little Gods heresy as they can find, you know… if one doesn’t get through maybe you’ll believe this …just don’t believe the simple TRUTH.
LikeLike
This DNA stuff has been around a bit. I plan on posting an article on this subject in the future.
LikeLike
Wow….this reminds me of some sort of alien invasion from the British TV show Doctor Who — LOL — I can imagine it now.
LikeLike
Spiritual DNA is covered in this lengthy article (and more lengthy series) at the “Getting Down to the DNA of Spiritual DNA” section:
https://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/bill-johnsons-christology-a-new-age-christ-part-iiib/
LikeLike
This to me personally is totally new, proving that what is written in the Bible about ‘Born Again’ in Mathew 3:3 has an impact on some one’s DNA. Amazing!
LikeLike
Franz,
I hope you are being facetious, i.e. that you realize what Damon Thompson is saying is really hogwash.
LikeLike
Craig,
I pulled the plug on my TV awhile ago, but there are several videos about “spiritual DNA” on Youtube- (Which means it must be true, right?)
Even that paragon of love and righteousness, Joel Osteen, says we are endowed by our creator with a latent “spiritual” DNA sequence that lies dormant within our genetic code. Osteen preaches that this encoded spiritual cosmic burst resides in everyone just waiting for the right moment to be “released”:
Another “proof” video informs us that there are several kinds of “spiritual” or “shadow DNA”. There’s “psychic DNA”, “esoteric DNA”, “anima DNA”, “cosmic DNA”, even DNA that contains information about our “past lives stored in holographic format”.
Wow! Who knew?
According to the intro quote attributed to Carl Jung, spiritual DNA is:
“..that dark, unused part of our self that is, in fact, light that is unconscious of itself.”
Now if Damon Thompson, Bob Jones, Joel Osteen, Carl Jung, and every new age nut on the planet are all in agreement about “spiritual DNA”, what more proof do we need? Maybe we should go find an “anointing”, or walk through a “fire tunnel” or do something really spiritual and powerful to activate our “born again” latent “god gene” so we can make the transition to a higher level of cosmic consciousness. Having the ability to get away with crime would just be an added bonus.
LikeLike
It is obvious that you are mistaken quite a lot as Damon is not talkibg about the visible, physical, medical DNA change or however you want to call it. He is talking about the invisible spiritual DNA as the change takes place in the spiritual realm that nobody can see. It is clear that the physical DNA stays the same. So there in nothing wrong with what Damon is saying, it is just you not understanding..
LikeLike
Lester,
You are mistaken on two counts. First, while the video is no longer available, my brief transcription indicates that he is talking about physical DNA. Second, how do you know there is a “spiritual DNA” that changes once an individual converts to Christianity; that is, if it’s invisible, how could you possibly know (a) there is such a thing and (b) if it changes?
Oh, but there are New Agers who assert that there is a “spiritual DNA” – just like Todd Bentley, the late Bob Jones, Bill Johnson, etc. See Getting Down to the DNA of Spiritual DNA here through to the Divine Nature Activated section.
LikeLike
This is the kind of stuff that “Chaps my hide”. The scriptures, the very Word of God does not elude to anything about a DNA change in us. scriptures also state that if the Word of God is silent on a matter, so should we. In other words, shut the mouth up about these things because they are not provable by scripture. These guys are “breaking the law” if you will.
LikeLike
It’s clearly a ‘doctrine of Damon’s’ 😀
Deoxyribonucleic acid changes not a jot when we become believers in Christ. What is renewed is the capacity to alter our thinking (Rom 12:1-3) through Christ in us I would say.
LikeLike
Good pun!
There are those who assert that there are inactive DNA that are ‘activated’ upon some sort of religious experience – “Divine Nature Activated”.
LikeLike
This stuff tends to pique my interest and I did some reading around the concept of spiritual DNA. Proponents seem to range from it being a euphemism for a believer’s character, like a CEO talking about the DNA of the company. Then all the way to there being some ‘spirit’ duplicate of our material self down to the sub-cellular level that also has DNA of a spirit kind that is somehow ‘activated’ on receipt of the Holy Spirit. This very dualisitic and ultimately new age/gnostic concept seems common across many Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, BJ and Bethel included. He uses the term as a different play on words acronym as you stated above Craig. Your contributors from 4 years ago have pretty much nailed all that’s wrong with this thinking, not least that, as I read in a recent Charisma Magazine article, if we ‘become one with the Holy Spirit due to his activation of our spiritual DNA’ (apply new acronym), it plays right into MSoG teaching. All part of God’s powerful delusion?
LikeLike
Jim,
Did you click the hyperlinks within the BJ New Age Christ part IIIb Getting to the DNA of Spiritual DNA section? The very last link has moved (and changed a bit), but with the help of Internet Archive (aka Wayback Machine), you can see the verbiage I’d quoted in its full context (I think, anyway):
http://web.archive.org/web/20120412110646/http://atam.org/
I’m relatively certain the term “spiritual DNA” originated in New Age writings (which are neognostic). Yes, it can be used figuratively; but, I’m concerned of its (seeming?) origins. From where I sit, this looks like a planned trojan horse brought into the Christian ‘churches’ by New Agers, “agents of change”.
Yes, it’s MSoG, which is itself New Age teaching. And the link above is wholly congruent with the hypercharismatic notion of the final generation having received “the best for last” from “God” (see very first paragraph), akin to the final stage in (New Age) evolution.
As I periodically read through my older articles, with the benefit of both hindsight and increased reading/writing skills, I’d have written these articles a bit differently; but, the basic gist of the BJ New Age Christ series I firmly stand behind. The hypercharismatic realm is permeated with New Age dogma and praxis (though I’ve not delved too much into the latter, focusing on theology instead); and, I believe this is the backdrop, though it’s been ‘Christianized’ to make it palatable to the unwary.
LikeLike
Actually, here’s the link with the full verbiage:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130326062507/http://www.atam.org/DNA.html
LikeLike