“Signs That Make You Wonder”

Following is a transcription of a YouTube video[1] from early 2008 with Bill Johnson of Bethel Church in Redding, California surmising that angels “have been bored for quite a few decades.” Johnson’s words begin at about 1:13 after an introduction by Patricia King of Extreme Prophetic[2] who refers to him as an “apostolic adviser” and “apostolic covering:”

Heaven is invading Earth; and, it’s happening through all different kinds of unusual manifestations. It’s happening through much more angelic encounters – those kinds of things are much more frequent.

And, I know people get nervous when you start talking about angels and this. It’s foolish to worship angels; but, it’s equally foolish to ignore them. God sent them to assist us in our assignment. We’ve been commissioned because we embrace His mission.

And, Jesus needed them. They came, ministered to Him. He cooperated. Paul cooperated with them. There wasn’t this praying to them – there’s not that sort of thing; but, they are there to assist us. And, quite frankly I think they have been bored for quite a few decades in this country and they’ve been looking for a generation that will live with some risk ‘cause that gives them something to back up. Because their whole deal is to enforce the Word of the Lord.

And, the Word of the Lord in Psalms 103 comes in two ways. It comes from God declaring a matter and it comes from Him speaking to His people and His people declaring a matter. And, they can tell when a word has originated in the heart of the Father ‘cause it carries that fragrance of the Throne Room with it and they recognize, “This is my assignment.” And, they jump all over that and enforce it. I’ve watched it; I’ve seen this happen where a word comes from the Father it’s declared in a room in a setting and instantly there is the absolute, most impossible situation reversed simply because of a declared word. And, I know there’s angelic assistance in enforcing them.

So, that’s, uh, it’s just increasing all kinds of manifestations. It’s the angelic realm; it’s just the supernatural breaking into this one: the gold and the oil and the wind. We’ve been having gusts of wind that just come out of nowhere. And, uh, ya know, it’s all good. It’s all signs that make you wonder and it’s just good to be in awe again. It’s not healthy to not be in awe. It’s not healthy to live accustomed to what’s going on around you. It’s really important that we live with that sense of awe and that appreciation for God’s unusual ways of working with us.

So this is, uh – I love it, I just welcome all that He’s doing.

While the exact vintage of this video is unknown to this writer, it should be noted that this upload of February 3, 2008 predates the Lakeland ‘Revival’ by a couple months in which Todd Bentley claimed all sorts of things regarding angels. In this video[3] of Lakeland from April 25, 2008, Bentley speaks of forthcoming ‘revivals’ and he states that a ‘revival’ was already taking place at Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church:

…Denny Cline,[4] are you watching me in Albany? Bob Jones[5] told me it’s coming back to Washington, Oregon, California… …Ya know Albany, Oregon was the first healing outpouring that I had in America. Ya know why it broke out? Because I was in Shreveport, Louisiana and the angel of the Winds of Change was released. I went all the way over to Grant’s Pass, Oregon and I went all the way to Albany, Oregon and the healing revival broke out and it launched our ministry. And that Bob [Jones] told me that same Winds of Change angel had come all the way back to Lakeland.

We know it’s already happening in Bethel – in northern California. It’s happening in Redding, California…”  [emphasis mine]

So, did the Bethel ‘revival’ rival the Lakeland ‘revival’ regarding angels? Did the same “Winds of Change angel” visit Bethel at the same time as Lakeland? Are angels omnipresent?

Todd Bentley stated back in 2002 or 2003 that it was an “angel called Healing Revival” that came to him in Grant’s Pass; whereas, above he says it was the “Winds of Change angel” who launched his ministry. Perhaps the angel changed his name later to “Winds of Change” because of a change in the wind? In the following, Bentley mentions that this “Healing Revival” angel was the same one of John G. Lake, William Branham and John Knox:

I first saw the angel called Healing Revival on December 5 of 2000 in Grant’s Pass. The angel came to me again in Albany the next February. He stood in the church service with his body going through the ceiling of the church. Then the Lord told me the angel’s name and that he was the same angel I saw in Grant’s Pass earlier. God also revealed to me that this angel was involved in the ministry of John Lake, William Branham, and John Knox in Scotland. This angel, the Lord said, is from the North West Healing Revival and is manifesting again as a sign that God is restoring the Voice of Healing revival and opening up the ancient wells.

In our ministry over the last year, this angel has come frequently and on many different occasions… …Many other people have also seen or had contact with this angel in the meetings. And whenever this angel shows up the miracles go off the charts. Instead of a few healings, we’ll get three blind eyes in one night or maybe a cripple guy gets out of a wheel chair.

I believe the angel showed up in Albany as a sign that God was endorsing what was taking place and that it was opening up a healing well. Everywhere I have seen this angel the miracles continue after I leave and a healing well is established in that church and in that city… [6]

From Scripture we know there are angels who minister to us. And, according to Psalm 103:19-21 – the verses Johnson must be referring to in the video above – we find another function of angels:

19 The LORD has established his throne in heaven,
and his kingdom rules over all.

20 Praise the LORD, you his angels,
you mighty ones who do his bidding, who obey his word.

21 Praise the LORD, all his heavenly hosts,
you his servants who do his will. [NIV]

In this context, it is made evident that angels obey the Word of God and are commanded by God [see also Psalm 91:11]. It is the Father who dispatches them; they do not, as Johnson states, “recognize” their “assignment.” Rather, they obey their assignment.  They do not act on their own accord.

Quoting Johnson from the transcript:

 And, the Word of the Lord in Psalms 103 comes in two ways.  It comes from God declaring a matter and it comes from Him speaking to His people and His people declaring a matter.

With the latter part of the second sentence above Johnson sets up a straw man argument which is incumbent on him to defend as it is extra-biblical.  For more on the function and nature of angels, here’s the Hebrew word from which we get “angel” — mal’ak — as defined by Strong’s:

 messenger, a human representative; angel, a supernatural representative of God, sometimes delivering messages, sometimes protecting God’s people; the “angel of the LORD” sometimes shares divine characteristics and is sometimes thought to be an manifestation of God himself, or of the preincarnate Christ [Theophany]. [7] [bracketed comment mine]  

Even Satan, a fallen angel, is constrained by the permissive will of God [see Job 1:12; 2:9]. To quote J. Hampton Keathley, III from his article Angelology: The Doctrine of Angels:

Surely it is comforting to know that God may protect, provide, and encourage us through His angels, but this fact does not always guarantee such deliverance, and certainly we should never presume on this provision of God. … we should keep in mind that God does not always deliver us from danger or supply our needs in miraculous ways whether by angels or by His direct intervention. For His own sovereign and wise purposes, the opposite is sometimes His will as life clearly illustrates and Scripture declares (see Heb. 11:36-40).

But there is another truth regarding angels that needs to be kept in view.  Just as people usually do not think of the punitive ministry of angels, so people, in their popular ideas about angels, often ignore the Scripture’s teaching about the deception of Satan’s evil angels (2 Cor. 11:14-15). [8]

Here[9] is a post on an angel named “Breakthrough Revival” in which Randy DeMain claimed this angel came to him while he was in Nigeria. While the YouTube video from which the transcription is taken from has been removed by the user, the bulk is verifiable as the contents are referred to both on another blog and in a ‘prophetic word’ which will be quoted from later in this article:

“All of a sudden I realized there was a presence of God that I had never experienced before upon my life. And in that moment of time, I heard a voice say this: ‘I have a gift for you, will you receive it?’ And it stunned me. And I looked up and it was like a veil between the natural and the supernatural opened, just an opening of the veil.”

It needs to be pointed out that the ‘veil’ DeMain speaks of sounds suspiciously like what is known in the New Age Religion as a “portal.” The author here[10] defines portals as “‘…inter-dimensional doorways, two-way tunnels, curtains of light’” and “’are a recurring concept in our cultural tradition allowing for travel between worlds and a means of transcending time and space.’” She states further:

“Some people say they can travel physically through portals, but most of those who visit the portals in Sedona move within their minds, as in meditation. This is commonly known as an out-of-body experience as they project their consciousness into an astral realm…

“There is an awareness that entities exist beyond our third dimensional existence, and that it is possible that there is movement between dimensions at portals…”

Going back to Randy DeMain’s account of his “visitation:”

And when this opened, the light became very bright, and as I looked up that living Lord Jesus Himself walked through that veil and stood before me just as a couple of feet in front of me and began to speak to me. He said, ‘An angel has come to me and asked to be assigned to you. His name is ‘Breakthrough Revival.’ He has seen in you the same heart and perseverance as the ones he has formerly served who have since died. He has new assignments since that time…”

Jesus Himself, in speaking of signs of the end of time gave this warning, “At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.” [Matthew 24:23 NIV] Therefore, it is very doubtful that DeMain actually saw Jesus Christ. In fact, given that we have no photos or verifiable representation of what Jesus actually looked like, how could DeMain be sure?

Continuing on with DeMain:

“…And then He said this: ‘What you saw tonight, what you experienced tonight is what the angel does. He goes before you and he opens up the realm of the area you’re ministering in and he drives back all the power of darkness. And, he creates an atmosphere where it is on earth as it is in heaven.’ And, as you say… …the word of God manifests instantly just like there is in heaven, there’s no hindrance; and, I was just overwhelmed at what the Lord was saying…

“…One of the things I said to the Lord, ‘…Why would I take this mighty angel… … from Nigeria, that’s causing all these things to happen, and take this angel from here back to America?’

“…And, immediately the Lord said, ‘because his work is done, it’s now the work of gathering and reaping angels. They will go forth now into the harvest and partner with men in the harvest just like they did with Philip in the New Testament…’ I come to find out historically that this is also true because to this very day the born again rate exceeds the birth rate in that nation of Africa; so, indeed, its work was done.

“The second thing really stunned me though. The Lord said to me, ‘It’s America’s time’ and I knew that all of a sudden the gaze of God had come to America.”

So, is it that God’s ‘gaze’ can only be on one nation at a time? This whole idea of angels moving from one region to another contradicts the pervasive belief in charismatic circles that angels and demons are constrained to specific geographic areas. This thought is one of the bases for the ‘spiritual warfare’ known as “spiritual mapping” written on extensively by C. Peter Wagner of Global Harvest Ministries[11]and practiced in the modern prophetic movement. This notion of “territorial spirits” is debunked here.[12]

In the following, Shawn Bolz relates how this “Breakthrough angel” worked through Liz Jones of Guildford Prayer School (UK)[13] while she was visiting his Los Angeles church:

“…Liz Jones, saw an angel, and said the angel’s name was “Breakthrough.” He had come to bring revival to California and breakthrough to us, or city, and the State.

“When she told me I was encouraged, but it did not fully register. In the past ministry I was involved in, WhiteDove Ministries, we did a series of conferences on a similar encounter that Bob Jones and Randy DeMain had reported having about an ‘angel of breakthrough’ who is instrumental in revival…

“…I recently went to a conference with Randy DeMain who had had an encounter with what he also called the “Angel of Breakthrough” in Nigeria while on a ministry trip in 2004. This angel had been involved with Benson Idahosa during the great Nigerian revivals of the 1990’s. Bob Jones had a similar encounter a few months later with similar details about this ‘Angel of Breakthrough’ being released in America… I told Randy about Liz Jones’ encounter when I was with him during a conference held on Valentines weekend in Idaho. He looked surprised. He said the presence of the angel had left him, and that the Lord told him that he was taking ‘Breakthrough’ somewhere else for a while. However, the ‘Angel of Breakthrough’ would be back with Randy in the future! Randy said, ‘So, that is where he is!’” [14] [Quotes (‘ ‘) and capitalization on ‘Angel of Breakthrough’ are mine. All else is as per original]

In a ‘prophetic word’ on the Elijah List[15] from April 4, 2006, Paul Keith Davis of White Dove Ministries relates how Bob Jones had a vision of Randy DeMain’s “Breakthrough Angel” on March 24th of the same year. In this ‘word’ there were to be three “major” moves “soon to take place.” When did they occur? There does not appear to be any specific expression of this particular angel with the exception of the rather minor encounter referenced by Shawn Bolz above. Here[16] Bolz relates in a little more detail the account of Liz Jones and this angel with a claim of 100 people in his congregation, including the homeless, receiving jobs within a month; however, again, it does not seem to be a “major” ‘move.’

There was an account in early 2009 of “Breakthrough Angel” showing up in Harrisburg, PA[17] ; but, it did not seem to materialize into a “major” revival – if one at all. Here’s a snippet from the advertisement:

“…We see this as a time to pull Heaven down and establish the Kingdom of God with every step that you take as the revival breakthrough angel is displacing spiritual forces over this region…” [all as per original]

In this ‘prophetic word’[18] from a March 2, 2010 “angelic visitation” referenced on Bob Jones’ website, Jones speaks of a ‘breakthrough’ in Ohio. No other information on this ‘revival’ is yet to be found as of the date of the writing of this article. Please note some confusing words at the end of Jones’ ‘word:’

“Let’s take an aggressive stand against the spoken word. Don’t give the enemy an inroad. Pray to cancel the power and authority out of the spoken word that is not aligned with God’s destiny for your family, city and state. Stand firm on the word of God and be assured ‘With God All Things Are Possible!’ Welcome the Breakthrough Revival Angel to do that which is necessary to bring about God’s Kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven…”

According to modern charismatic belief, isn’t the spoken word the rhema, which is the one of ‘prophetic revelation,’ while the Word of God is the written word, the logos, the Bible? How does one know which ‘spoken word’ is “aligned with God’s destiny for your family, city and state?”

It has been since early 2006 that this Bob Jones’ ‘prophecy’ about the three “major” ‘moves’ of the “Breakthrough Angel” were to “soon take place” yet to date they have not come to fruition. With all the different angels of the Lakeland ‘revival,’ “Breakthrough” was not one of them. What happened to the “Breakthrough Angel?” Isn’t the “Angel of Breakthrough” supposed to return to Randy DeMain?

Is it possible that the unnamed angel of the Bethel ‘revival’ Todd Bentley references in the April 2008 clip above is the elusive “Angel of Breakthrough?” This seems doubtful since if this were a partial fulfillment of Jones’ ‘prophecy’ certainly it would have been promoted as such.

Taking all the above into consideration I would have to agree with this portion of Bill Johnson’s words from the transcript at the beginning of this article:

“It’s all signs that make you wonder…”

[1] “fr33info4u,” Bill Johnson – Heaven invades Earth <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdOY42jUeks> February 3, 2008;  as accessed 10/10/10

[2] Extreme Prophetic homepage <http://www.extremeprophetic.com/>

[3] “GodOfElijah,” Todd Bentley Florida Healing Revival 3 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-nwMfOKgXo> April 25, 2008; as accessed 10/10/10

[4] Jesus Pursuit Church home page <http://www.vcfalbany.org/>

[5] Bob Jones Ministries home page <http://www.bobjones.org/>

[6] Bentley, Todd / Fresh Fire Ministries (archived), “An Angel Called Healing Revival” Angelic Hosts <http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html> as accessed 10/10/10

[7] Strong, James, Dr. The Strongest Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. fully revised by John R. Kohlenberg III and James A. Swanson; 2001, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI; Strong’s # 4397; p 1414 “mal’ak,”

[8] Keathley, III, J. Hampton, “The Ministry of Angels” Angelology: The Doctrine of Angels. <http://bible.org/article/angelology-doctrine-angels> par 18-19; as accessed 10/10/10

[9] “endtimespropheticwords” Randy DeMain’s Jesus encounter and the Angel Breakthrough Revival <http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/randy-demains-jesus-encounter-and-the-angel-breakthrough-revival/> July 25, 2008; as accessed 10/10/10

[10] “Jocelyn” Portals <http://www.sedonanewagecenter.com/newsletter/html/2005/cnanewsletter5-11.htm> Center For The New Age Newsletter, Volume 5 Issue 11, November, 2005; as accessed 10/10/10

[11] Global Harvest Ministries homepage <http://www.globalharvest.org/>

[12] Stevens, David E., “Daniel 10 and the Notion of Territorial Spirits,” Bibliotheca Sacra. 157: 628 (2000): 410-431 <http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/daniel10.pdf> Stevens is Senior Pastor, Central Bible Church, Portland, Oregon; as accessed 10/10/10

[13] Guildford Prayer School (UK) <http://www.guildfordcommunitychurch.org.uk/Articles/9689/Guildford_Community_Church/GCC_life/GCC_Guildford/Prayer/Guildford_Prayer_School.aspx> as accessed 10/10/10

[14] Bolz, Shawn “The Release of Breakthrough in California (Not another cliché breakthrough word)” blogs.myspace.com/shawnbolz <http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=19410816&blogId=476320097> March, 13 2009; as accessed 10/10/10

[15] Elijah List, Paul Keith Davis and Bob Jones: “The Angel Stated That His Name Is ‘Breakthrough’” <http://elijahlist.com/words/display_word/3959> April 4, 2006; as accessed 10/10/10

[16] “RevivalFiresMedia” “The Angel of Breakthrough” Interview with Shawn Bolz <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkaq4ZXeLPs> May 24, 2010; as accessed 10/10/10

[17] Life Center Ministries advertisement for “Firestorm 2009” <http://www.lcmi.org/about/firestorm-february-26-28-2009/> as accessed 10/10/10

[18] Jones, Bob “Invite Breakthrough Revival Angel” Damn the Torpedos Full Speed Ahead! Breakthrough is in Ohio! <http://bobjonesnew.unionactive.com/Docs/Words%20of%202010/2010-03_BreakthroughInOhio.htm> as accessed 10/10/10


22 Responses to “Signs That Make You Wonder”

  1. Pat says:

    I just WONDER how so many people keep following after these men, it is so blazing apparent that most that do aren’t paying any attention to the accuracy or lack of accuracy of the words/prophecies that are coming out of their mouths. I can only conclude that they (the people) aren’t really concerned with truth or God’s Word. I know that many are decieved but there comes a point that you know things aren’t right or lining up. There in lies my frustration, what’s it going to take for people to snap out of this and wake up?


  2. IWTT says:

    People are too lazy to study for themselves and would rather just take the word of these men thinking they are real “Prophets/Apostles”. Only to discover (hopefully) later that they have been deceived and deceiving and turn from their wicked ways.


  3. Dave says:

    The comments that Johnson makes to which you refer at the beginning of this post are, I believe, taken from one of his DVDs, teaching sessions of his ministry school that are recorded and disseminated. I seem to recall a conversation very like this at the beginning of one of them.


    • Craig says:


      Yes, I’ve heard one other teaching series in which Johnson quotes the “angels have been bored for decades” as well as some of the other things he’s said in the first transcript above.


  4. JD says:


    I am afraid I fell behind in trying to keep up with your posts. I took some time to try to catch up and must say I am really glad you decided to run with this. I hope you don’t mind, but I am going to add a link to you on my blog. You are doing too good of a job for me not to share it.


    • Craig says:


      Of course I don’t mind if you link to your site! If you’ll look down the side of the CrossWise blog, you will see your blog on my own Blog Roll. Keep up the great work you are doing!


  5. Craig says:

    I just came across this quote from Johnson’s When Heaven Invades Earth:

    I believe angels have been bored because we live the kind of lifestyle that doesn’t require much of their help. Their assignment is to assist us in supernatural endeavors.


  6. Craig says:

    And, I just caught the following as I read some more. This is in the context of Johnson claiming that angels can tell when a given word is from the heart of the Father and Johnson had received a word — actually a vision while praying — regarding this woman prior to asking his question:

    “When it came time for the meeting, I asked if there was anyone there with arthritis in the spine. A woman to my right waved her hand. I had her stand and declared over her, The Lord Jesus heals you! I then asked her where was her pain.
    “She wept saying, ‘It is impossible, but it is gone!’ Angels enforced a word that originated in the heart of the Father. But for that moment, I was the voice of His word.”

    So, in this account did Jesus heal this woman or was it the angel?


  7. Craig says:

    This post on Bob Jones displays more of his false prophecies and false doctrines:


    From the article:

    The next 3 years is gonna be harvesting harvesters. For, the church is not ready for a harvest yet — she has not got enough people to harvest it.

    This is a “word” from 08/08/08; so, we have another eight months for this to come true. We’ll see…

    Well, Jones DID say the Kingdom of God would be this year; so, I guess we must be in a time of “acceleration” or something like that.


  8. Craig says:

    New “tweet” by Bill Johnson:

    “If signs and wonders don’t follow you, follow them until they follow you.”
    — Bill Johnson, Twitter, January 20, 2011,


    Yup, I think his words quoted in this blog article title are still apropos: “Signs That Make You Wonder.”

    Words like these sure make me wonder.


  9. Pingback: The New Order of the Latter Rain. What is it? Is it Heresy? « Welsh Reflections

  10. Arwen4CJ says:

    I’m not really sure if there would be a better article to post this on….I haven’t been on your blog for awhile, and you also may have already covered this….

    Anyway, I happened to do a search about Bill Johnson earlier today to see what, if anything, is “new” in the hyper-charismatic world, and I came across something very interesting….

    Bill Johnson has started naming names and warning people about at least one person whom he considers to be a false prophet: Jason Westerfield. He actually publicly rebuked the man’s teachings!

    I’m not sure what this means, as Jason Westerfield holds to many of the same practices and teachings of others who are part of the hyper-charismatic scene.

    My hope is that the Holy Spirit is working in Bill Johnson’s heart to reveal false teachings, doctrines, and practices to him, and that Bill Johnson might be saved out of the movement (along with many other people).

    I think we really need to pray for Bill Johnson and that God will continue to give him discernment about the movement that Bill is a part of, and that Bill might repent of all of his false teachings. I really pray that God opens his eyes and his heart to the truth. I think Bill Johnson might be open more to the truth now than ever before. This is something we can all pray for 🙂


    • Craig says:


      Glad to see you here!

      I saw the incident you mention on the Facebook page ‘Bethel Church & Christianity.’ The thing is, by appearances, Westerfield received much of what he learned at Bethel (BSSM), yet he’s more overt in his teachings, while Johnson and Vallotton are less so. My impression is that due to the fact that Westerfield has been more overt, Johnson wanted to distance himself from this, as he doesn’t wish to have someone pin a ‘guilty by association’ thing on him. Or worse, Westerfield had stepped on some toes at Bethel and this is a kind of retribution. But, that’s the skeptic in me.

      However, perhaps you are right. Maybe Johnson is beginning to see the light.


  11. Arwen4CJ says:

    Right — only with the passing of time will we know the true impact of this. I know that it isn’t a guarantee that Johnson will see the light or change, but we do have hope. We can always hope and pray for this.

    If Johnson does begin to see the truth and repents for his previous teachings, and changes his ways — and starts to speak out against the things that he used to teach, admitting that he was in error — then that would have big implications for the hyper-charismatic world. Many people (including Johnson himself) might be pulled out of the darkness. That is my hope.

    At least with Johnson rebuking Westerfield, it might cause some people to question other teachings and things within the hyper-charismatic movement.

    Here are the links I’ve found on the issue so far: (not that I’m condoning the sites and blogs below, but they do provide some perspectives on this)

    Hmmm….I listened to the youtube video to hear what Johnson actually said (which I hadn’t before), and I wouldn’t call what he said to be rebuking Jason 😦 It just sounds like a public warning with no real reason given. It’s just general stuff that could be applied to anyone in the hyper-charismatic movement. Johnson didn’t name specific practices or theology that make Westerfield so dangerous.

    So…yeah, I don’t know why Johnson considers it to be demonic. What about the guy’s ministry does he think is demonic? Is there a teaching or practice that is particularly concerning to him? There just is not any information given.

    For all we know, it could be as you suggested, Westerield just being more open and overt about his false teachings….to the point that Johnson fears that people might wake up to the truth and leave the hyper-charismatic movement. I don’t know.

    I still say — let’s pray. If Johnson truly believes that Westerfield is dangerous, then maybe Johnson will see that his own teaching is dangerous. We can still hope that he will come to repentance and start preaching the truth.


  12. MaryM says:

    Bill Johnson has said numerous times to ‘eat the meat and spit out the bones’….the only problem is, he never tells all the young people what the ‘bones’ are. He is very good at clever, twisty, cool phrases that impress these young people and they hardly notice that they haven’t been taught a thing….even for those who have been in church a long time may scratch their head but shrug it off as being petty to question it. When I heard about the Westerfield issue, I was suspicious – thought maybe BJ had found someone he could ‘rebuke’ just to show he’s discerning…but that’s my skepticism about everything he does. I do know they are getting deeper and deeper into new age and eastern mysticism practices….that new book about sound and all/everything coming into harmony….how they can’t see all the red flags and bells and whistles going off, I don’t know… 😦


  13. Arwen4CJ says:

    Yeah, someone who talked about the “rebuke” seemed to imply that Johnson was warning about Westerfield because of the New Age and other demonic things — but Johnson (at least in the video clip above), never calls out any specific practices or teachings that he finds problematic or dangerous. It’s an empty warning.

    The warning makes no sense because of all of the other New Age/occult/New Thought/pagan practices that Bethel Church has been promoting for awhile now.

    So what does this warning of Westerfield even mean?

    Could it be more of a personality clash thing or who knows? The whole thing makes no sense.

    If Johnson (and the leadership staff at Bethel) are so concerned about demonic things in Westerfield’s ministry, then they don’t seem to be too concerned about the stuff that they themselves have been promoting. Something is off.

    Either they are waking up to the false teachings and practices (but there doesn’t seem to be a major change in what they practice or teach — so this seems unlikely), or something else is going on (hyper-charismatic church politics or something? Or maybe Johnson just said that about Westerfield’s ministry in order to discredit him for some reason?).

    Until Johnson gives us specifics about his concerns with Westerfield AND he starts publicly repenting of his own theology and practice — then there is no reason to think that he thinks there is anything wrong with New Age practices, or that he is being sincere with his “rebuke” of Westerfield.

    I found some interesting things on the Internet when I looked more into this Westerfield “rebuke.” It seems that some parts of the hyper-charismatic world have moved beyond Johnson to deeper territory. They consider Johnson (and Bethel) to be child’s play, and not open to the deeper things that God wants, or open to God moving as much as they are. They think that people need to be even more crazy for God….they think that people like Westerfield are too tame for Bethel, and that God is leaving Bethel behind, in favor of the more exciting people like Westerfield. 😦

    So….yeah…something seems to be going on in the hyper-charismatic world.


Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

%d bloggers like this: