<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>

<channel>
	<title>CrossWise</title>
	<atom:link href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Walking in the Truth</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:47:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<language>en</language>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
<cloud domain='notunlikelee.wordpress.com' port='80' path='/?rsscloud=notify' registerProcedure='' protocol='http-post' />
<image>
		<url>http://0.gravatar.com/blavatar/e81122f2bf828dc96ddcc4dd1d59e0c6?s=96&#038;d=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.wp.com%2Fi%2Fbuttonw-com.png</url>
		<title>CrossWise</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com</link>
	</image>
	<atom:link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/osd.xml" title="CrossWise" />
	<atom:link rel='hub' href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?pushpress=hub'/>
		<item>
		<title>Learning Etymology with Bill Johnson: A New Age ‘Repentance’?</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/learning-etymology-with-bill-johnson-a-new-age-repentance/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/learning-etymology-with-bill-johnson-a-new-age-repentance/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 23:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Alice A. Bailey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bethel Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Johnson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Contemplative Spirituality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[E. W. Kenyon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[esoteric]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[False Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gnosticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Latter Rain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Meditation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Age]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Spirituality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Thought]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Repentance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Unity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Word of Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Contemplative Prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cynthia Bourgeault]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eastern Religions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Etymology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teacher]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Hick]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Justification]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kenneth E. Hagin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lance Wallnau]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[maya]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[meditation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Meditative Prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[metanoia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[metaphysical]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Age Movement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Age Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Renewing Your Mind]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sanctification]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sanctified imagination]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs and wonders]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[transformation of consciousness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Unity Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[visions and dreams]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wisdom Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Word/Faith]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=6925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many prominent authors and conference speakers add fuel to the fire of fear assuming that because the new age movement promotes it, its origins must be from the devil… -Bill Johnson1 Etymology is the study of the derivation of words, the history/origin of the elements which make up a word.  For example, the Greek word [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=6925&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p style="text-align:center;"><em><strong><em>Many prominent authors and conference speakers add fuel to the fire of fear assuming that because <span style="text-decoration:underline;">the new age movement</span> promotes it, its origins must be from the devil</em></strong></em><em>…</em></p>
<p style="text-align:right;">-Bill Johnson<sup>1</sup></p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/etymology"><em>Etymology</em></a> is the study of the derivation of words, the history/origin of the elements which make up a word.  For example, the Greek word (<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transliterated">transliterated</a>) <em>pharmakeia</em> is translated to English in the New Testament as medication, magic, sorcery, and witchcraft.<sup>2</sup>  Obviously, the English word <em>pharmacy</em> is derived from this same word.  Hence <em>pharmakeia</em> is part of the etymology of the English word <em>pharmacy.</em></p>
<p>There are at least two instances in which Bill Johnson breaks down words in order to help the reader understand the meaning.  However in each case, Bill Johnson explained the words in a way which went beyond their actual etymology and true meaning.  In his book <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming with God</span></em> is the following:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>A good way to remember the intent of the word <strong>desire</strong> is to break it down by syllables.  ‘De’ means ‘of.’  And ‘sire’ means ‘father.’  The question should not be, ‘are my desires from God?’  The question should be, ‘With what, or with whom have I been in communion?’*  I can communicate with God or the enemy… </em><sup>3</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>For the record, the asterisk above replaces a footnote in the original text which indicates that the portion in quotation marks is from Lance Wallnau.  While it’s possible the above was a sort of <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mnemonic">mnemonic</a> device (a concept such as the general rule for spelling in English “i before e except after c”) in order for Johnson to make a larger point, it should have been stated for the sake of correctness that this is not the actual origin, the etymology of the word <em>desire </em>to alleviate any potential confusion.</p>
<p>The word <em>de</em>, a preposition,<em> </em>can mean not just “of”, but also “with”, “by”, “for”, “from”, or “in” in Spanish, French, Latin, and other languages.  The word <em>desire</em> is a shortened form of the Latin <em>desiderare</em> with its origin explained in the following:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Early 13c[century]…“long for, wish for,” original sense perhaps “await what the stars will bring,” from the phrase de sidere “from the stars,” from sidus…“heavenly body, star, constellation”…</em><sup>4</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>So, as can be seen, the word’s derivation is essentially “longing for what the stars will bring” which has absolutely nothing to do with the Wallnau/Johnson claim above.  While the word <em>sire</em> does mean “father”, this is not part of the etymology of the word <em>desire</em>.</p>
<p>Here’s another example.  In Johnson’s book <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind</span></em> is the explanation of the word “repent”:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Renewing the mind begins with repentance.  That is the gateway to return to our original assignment on earth.  Jesus said, ‘Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.’  To many Christians, <strong>repent</strong> refers to having an altar call where people come forward and weep at the altar to get right with God.  This is a legitimate expression of repentance, but it’s not what the word repentance means.  ‘Re’ means to go back.  ‘Pent’ is like the penthouse, the top floor of the building.  Repent, then, means to go back to God’s perspective on reality. And in that perspective there is a renewal, a reformation that affects our emotions, and every part of our lives&#8230;</em><sup>5</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>In the first example with the word <em>desire</em> the intent of Johnson/Wallnau may not have been clear, however, with Johnson’s <em>repent</em> he appears to be making the explicit claim that his explanation is the true meaning and origin.  Nevertheless, the word’s actual etymology proves Johnson wrong. </p>
<p>The term comes from the French <em>repentir</em> with prefix “re” from Latin (“again”) and <em>penitire</em> (“regret”) which is itself derived from Latin <em>poenitire</em> (“make sorry”) which in turn comes from <em>poena</em> (“punishment”).<sup>6</sup>  Obviously, within the word is the recognition of and regret for wrongdoing.</p>
<p>With this sort of carelessness with the English language, one must wonder how Bill Johnson handles the Word of God.   As has already been shown <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/anthology-of-bill-johnson-articles-so-far/">here on CrossWise</a>, Johnson is similarly haphazard with Scripture as he reinterprets terms and concepts.  However, despite Johnson’s botching of the etymology of <em>repent</em>, it appears to be similar to the orthodox Christian understanding of the term.  Or is it?  Johnson’s phrase “God’s perspective on reality” is rather peculiar.  We’ll return to that in a bit.  First, let’s establish the meaning of the word <strong><em>repent</em></strong> from an orthodox theological understanding.</p>
<h4><strong>Orthodox Christian Meaning of Repentance</strong></h4>
<p><strong><em>Repentance</em></strong> is the noun form of the verb <strong><em>repent</em></strong> which means “[g]odly sorrow for one’s sin and a resolve to turn from it”.<sup>7</sup>  The <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms</span></em> defines it as, “The act of expressing contrition and penitence for sin.  Its linguistic roots [Ed: etymology] point to its theological meaning of a change of mind and life direction as a beginning step of expressing Christian faith (Acts 26:20).”<sup>8</sup><em></em></p>
<p><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia</span></em> (ISBE) is more thorough noting true repentance affects our intellect, emotions, and will.  As to the intellect, “…human beings must apprehend sin as unutterably heinous, the divine law as perfect and binding and themselves as falling short of the requirements of a holy God…”  As to emotions, repentance involves, “…an earnest appeal to God to forgive according to His mercy…”  The most important element is the understanding that to repent is an act of the will; we must choose to turn from sin.  Repentance is not a one time event but the constant choosing between alternatives.  However, equally important is that God takes the initiative.  It&#8217;s a paradox of sorts &#8220;reflecting the myserious relationship between the human and the divine personalities&#8221;.  The choice is to follow Him or not .<sup>9</sup></p>
<p>In terms of how repentance relates to salvation, the ISBE notes:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Repentance is only a condition of salvation and not its meritorious ground. The motives for repentance are found chiefly in the sinner’s experience of God’s kindness (Rom 2:4), love (Jn 3:16), and earnest desire that sinners be saved (Ezk 33:11; 1 Tim 2:4), of the inevitable consequences of sin (Lk 13:1-5), of the universal demands of the gospel (Acts 17:30), and of the hope for spiritual life…and membership in the kingdom of heaven (Mk 1:15).…A consciousness of spiritual poverty dethroning pride…surrender to God…spiritual hunger and thirst, are all part of the experience of one who wholly abandons sin and heartily turns to God who [alone] is able to grant eternal life.</em><sup>10</sup><em> </em></p></blockquote>
<p>The words <strong><em>repent</em></strong> and <strong><em>repentance</em></strong> are translated from the Greek (transliterated) <strong><em>metanoeo</em></strong> and <strong><em>metanoia</em></strong> respectively.  In the definitive <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Early Christian Literature, Third Edition (BDAG)</span></em> the definition for <strong><em>metanoeo</em></strong> is “feel remorse, repent, be converted”.<sup>11</sup>  Similarly, <strong><em>metanoia</em></strong> means “repentance, turning about, conversion”.  Now let’s look at the etymology of these Greek words.<sup>12</sup></p>
<p><strong><em>Meta</em></strong> is a preposition in the Greek (and is used as a prefix in English) meaning “with”, “among”, “in company with someone else”, “take”, “bring something along”, “behind”, “after”, et cetera, basically meaning “in the vicinity of”.<sup>13</sup>  </p>
<p><strong><em>Noeo</em></strong> means “to grasp or comprehend something on the basis of careful thought,<em> perceive, apprehend, understand, gain an insight into”</em>; “to think over with care, <em>consider, take note of”</em>; “to form an idea about something, <em>think, imagine”</em>; or, “to pay heed with intent to set appropriately, <em>be minded”</em>.<sup>14</sup></p>
<p>Note again the <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms</span></em> definition near the beginning of this section which states, “The linguistic roots point to its theological meaning of a change of mind and life direction as a beginning step of expressing Christian faith…”  This seems to capture the etymological root of the Greek word <strong><em>metanoia</em></strong> (the noun form of the verb <strong><em>metanoeo</em></strong>) keeping in mind the first part of the <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Westminster</span></em> definition, “the act of expressing contrition and penitence for sin.”  Once we understand God’s holiness and righteousness as compared to our unrighteous, sinful condition, we perceive/comprehend/gain insight into the mind of God and act accordingly in penitence.</p>
<p>The <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Evangelical Dictionary of Theology</span></em> states similarly that <strong><em>repent</em></strong> has the meaning “to turn back, away from” sin feeling “[h]eartfelt sorrow for sin” with a call to conversion.  “Repentance is the theme of the preaching of John the Baptist (Mt 3:1; Mk 1:4; Mt 3:8).  Baptism in water unto repentance is accompanied by confession of sins (Mt 3:6; cf. 1 Jn 1:8-9)…Generally…<strong><em>metanoia</em></strong> can be said to denote that inward change of mind, affections, convictions, and commitment rooted in the fear of God and sorrow for offences committed against him, which when accompanied by faith in Jesus Christ, results in an outward turning from sin to God and his service in all of life…”<sup>15</sup></p>
<p>This establishes the orthodox Christian understanding of <strong><em>repent</em></strong> and <strong><em>repentance</em></strong>.  Now let’s look at how some of the unorthodox/heterodox<sup>16</sup> define the terms.</p>
<h4><strong>Unorthodox/Heterodox definitions of Repentance </strong></h4>
<p>In the <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Metaphysical Bible Dictionary</span></em> used by the Unity School of Christianity is the following definition of <em>repentance</em>:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>The Greek word <strong>metanoia</strong> is translated ‘repentance,’ which has been interpreted to mean an admission to God of sorrow for past sin and a resolve to be good in the future.  The field of action for that which has been assumed to be goodness in the sight of God has nearly always been in conduct.  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The whole Christian world has in a measure failed to discern the teaching of the New Testament about mental laws.  A proper translation of the mission of John the Baptist is: He came into all the region round about Jordan preaching immersion in <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mentation">mentation</a> for the doing away with shortcoming</span>.  <strong>Metanoia</strong> means <strong>change of mind, middle mind, transformation of the mind, change of thought and purpose</strong>.</em><sup>17</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>The word “mentation” is not defined, but by the usage it seems to indicate a transformation of the mind by contemplative/meditative prayer.  Apparently, in the Unity view, mainline orthodox Christianity has had it wrong all these years with the focus on sin.</p>
<p>In New Ager Cynthia Bourgeault’s book <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Wisdom Jesus: Transforming Heart and Mind – a New Perspective on Christ and His Message</span></em> is a reinterpretation of Jesus’ earthly ministry as a “teacher of the transformation of consciousness”.<sup>18</sup>   She agrees with fellow New Age author Jim Marion as she writes:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>&#8230;Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a <strong>state of consciousness</strong>; it is not a place you go to, but a place you <strong>come from</strong>.  It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns the world into a different place.  Marion suggests specifically that the Kingdom of Heaven is Jesus’s own favorite way of describing a state we would nowadays call a ‘nondual consciousness’ or unitive consciousness.’ </em><sup>19</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Apparently Bourgeault and perhaps Marion are not very well informed as this teaching is hardly new having been around for quite a while in the Eastern religions which have infiltrated the US for at least the past 100 years including inside the Church.</p>
<p>Bourgeault also defines <strong><em>metanoia</em></strong> for the reader:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…It doesn’t mean feeling sorry for yourself for doing bad things.  It doesn’t even mean to ‘change the direction in which you’re looking for happiness’…The word literally breaks down into <strong>meta</strong> and <strong>noia</strong>, which…means ‘go beyond the mind’ or ‘go into the larger mind.’ </em><sup>20</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Similar to Unity, Bourgeault espouses the contemplative/meditative as a vehicle to the transformation of the mind.  What does “go into the larger mind” actually mean?</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…I sometimes joke with my <a href="http://www.centeringprayer.com/">Centering Prayer</a> students that when they sit down to do their twenty minutes of meditation, they are really engaged in an exercise in repentance.  It’s true if you take <strong>metanoia</strong> in this alternative sense.  They are going beyond their minds, into the larger mind.  And Jesus, the master of repentance, is leading them there.</em><sup>21</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps that would be akin to “go[ing] back” to “the penthouse, the top floor of the building” to receive<em> </em> “God’s perspective on reality”?</p>
<p>It’s interesting how terms meant to convey ideas in a figurative way are literalized instead and, conversely, how terms meant to be understood literally are reinterpreted metaphorically in the New Age and esoteric ‘Christian’ groups.</p>
<h4><strong>A Closer look at Bill Johnson’s Definition of Repentance</strong></h4>
<p>Bill Johnson rightly mixes <em><strong>repentance</strong></em> with <strong><em>renewing the mind</em></strong>.  Upon salvation/justification one must repent.  After this, each one must continue to repent for sins committed throughout their Christian life.  With sanctification comes the renewing of the mind as this is the process of sanctification as we grow in the Christian faith.  By submitting ourselves to the indwelt Holy Spirit rather than succumbing to the sinful nature (flesh) we continue to be sanctified (Romans 8:1-17; Romans 12:1-2; Galatians 5:16-26).  And, it’s the Holy Spirit who convicts of the sins we commit as we live out the Christian life.</p>
<p>Yet, Johnson uses some peculiar wording as he explains both concepts.  Here’s the quote once again:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Renewing the mind begins with repentance.  That is the gateway to return to our original assignment on earth.  Jesus said, ‘Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.’  To many Christians, <strong>repent</strong> refers to having an altar call where people come forward and weep at the altar to get right with God.  This is a legitimate expression of repentance, but it’s not what the word repentance means.  ‘Re’ means to go back.  ‘Pent’ is like the penthouse, the top floor of the building.  Repent, then, means to go back to God’s perspective on reality. And in that perspective there is a renewal, a reformation that affects our emotions, and every part of our lives&#8230;</em><sup>22</sup> </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, weeping in an altar call, while “a legitimate <span style="text-decoration:underline;">expression</span> of repentance”, is not the actual <span style="text-decoration:underline;">meaning</span> of repentance as the definition is much more.  However, to claim that “God’s perspective on reality” is the full definition is not adequate needing both further elaboration and a reigning in.  Since God is omniscient, He has full “reality”; mere men do not and will not.  And as noted above, Christian orthodoxy requires penitence as part of the definition of the term <strong><em>repentance</em></strong>. </p>
<p>Sure, if we take the strict meaning of <strong><em>metanoia</em></strong> as from its etymology we could arrive at the Johnson view divorcing sin and penitence from the definition as we know it and, similarly, we could redefine <strong><em>desire</em></strong> to mean “longing for stardust” thereby adding to its accepted meaning by using its etymological roots.  However, just like there’s an established meaning for <strong><em>desire</em></strong> as a “longing” or “craving”, throughout the past 2000 years the Christian understanding of <strong><em>repentance</em></strong> is as described above in the “Orthodox Christian Meaning of Repentance” section.</p>
<p>Let’s continue with the above quote in order to keep Johnson’s words in proper context:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…Without repentance we remain locked into carnal ways of thinking.  When the Bible speaks of carnality, it doesn’t necessarily mean obvious, disgusting sin.  Most Christians have no appetite for sin; they don’t want to get drunk or sleep around, but because they live without the demonstrated power of the gospel, many have lost their sense of purpose and gone back to sin…</em><sup>23</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>This is not wholly untrue.  If we do not submit to the Spirit and consequently live by the flesh, we will be stuck in “carnal ways of thinking”.  But, it doesn’t necessarily take the “demonstrated power of the gospel” to keep one from sin; it’s by submitting to the Spirit instead and living by and in faith.  But, this is Johnson’s usual lure: to give the reader/listener the idea that the Christian life is primarily about the living in the supernatural realm:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…Having a renewed mind is often not an issue of whether or not someone is going to heaven, but of how much of heaven he or she wants in his or her life right now.</em><sup>24</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>This goes to Johnson’s faulty premise that we can literally ‘bring heaven to earth’ based on his esoteric understanding of the “Lord’s Prayer” (Mt 6:9-13).  As Grant Osborne explains, there will be a new heaven and a new earth in the age to come at which point the current age is no longer.  Heaven and earth are separate and remain so:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…[I]t is a prayer that the fullness of his will, known only in heaven at present, be fully consummated via the second coming.  This will come with the arrival of ‘a new heaven and a new earth’ (Rev 21:1), when the old order passes away and the eternal order will begin.  At present we cannot introduce his perfect will and lead the people of this world to embrace it.  But we can proclaim his name and guide those around us to follow his will more fully…</em><sup>25</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>The Apostle Peter explained that the heavens (the atmosphere surrounding earth, not God’s dwelling place!) and the earth will disappear (2 Peter 3:10-13): “The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare” (2 Peter 3:10b-d; NIV 1984).</p>
<p>There are different views of eschatology (end times) which we should not divide over; however, to assume that we can literally bring the heavenly realm down to earth in bits and pieces until Christ returns is not Biblical.  But, it <em>is</em> a New Age and Latter Rain belief.</p>
<p>Johnson also states, “The only way to consistently do Kingdom works is to view reality from God’s perspective.”<sup>26</sup>  Johnson claims that when Jesus tells Nicodemus one cannot see the Kingdom unless one is born again (John 3:3) He meant that with a “renewed mind” one can literally see the Kingdom in the here and now instead of Jesus’ intent that this will be in the age to come.<sup>27</sup>  But what exactly does Johnson mean by his line of thinking?</p>
<h4><strong>Johnson’s Word of Faith Roots Showing</strong></h4>
<p>Bill Johnson has roots in Word of Faith theology as evidenced, for example, by his belief that all Christians should be healed of all afflictions.  E. W. Kenyon is recognized as the originator of Word of Faith doctrine with Kenneth E. Hagin, Sr. popularizing it in the past 40 years or so.  In D. R. McConnell’s book (McConnell did his graduate work at Oral Roberts University) <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">A Different Gospel</span></em>, he notes how Kenyon appropriated practices from metaphysical cults such as New Thought, Unity and Christian Science in order to form his own theology.<sup>28</sup>  Of Kenyon, he states</p>
<blockquote><p><em>The typical pattern in such instances is to disclaim any similarities with cultic teaching on a particular topic and then proceed to teach exactly that.</em><sup>29</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>In the following, McConnell quotes from Kenyon illustrating this practice:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>We are not dealing with mysticism, philosophy or metaphysics.  We are dealing with <span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>realities</strong></span>…we are dealing with the basic laws of man’s being, the great spiritual laws that govern the unseen forces of life.</em><sup>30</sup></p>
<p><em>This is not a new metaphysics or philosophy.  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">This is <strong>reality</strong></span>.  This is God breaking into the sense realm. <span style="text-decoration:underline;">This is God imparting His own nature to the human spirit</span>.</em><sup>31</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Now here’s Johnson with his disclaimer on his repentance/renewing your mind teaching.  He sets this up by pointing out how some have studied theology to the exclusion of living out a life of faith contrasting that with the excesses of others who promote supernatural experience at the expense of any sort of theological orthodoxy thinking doctrine has no value.  Of course, that’s not incorrect.  This then prefaces the following statement:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Many Christians instinctively distrust the mind, thinking it is irredeemably corrupt and humanistic.  They point to Harvard and Yale and other universities that were originally founded on Christian principles, but which today promulgate deceptions and lies…</em><sup>32</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>He follows this tact for a time setting up the quote above on repentance.  After establishing his definition on repentance and how important a renewed mind is to ‘bring heaven to earth’, he makes this statement:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…He wants you to see reality from God’s perspective, to learn to live <strong>from</strong> His world <strong>toward</strong> the visible world…</em><sup>33</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>This sounds very much like a quote from Bourgeault’s book, “…the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a <em>state of consciousness</em>; it is not a place you go to, but a place you <em>come from</em>”.  Also, compare this to part of one of the Kenyon quotes above “This is God imparting His own nature to the human spirit” plus the following quote from Kenyon:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>This is not psychology or metaphysics.  This is absolute fact.  <strong>God becomes a part of our very consciousness</strong>.</em><sup>34</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Is Johnson conveying with the above that we need to, in his words, <em>repent</em>, i.e. “go back” to “the penthouse, the top floor of a building” which means regaining “God’s perspective on reality” in order to “to live <em>from</em> His world <em>toward</em> the visible world” and that the renewed mind is literally the mind of God?  That we can literally see the supernatural realm as if we were God himself and “view reality from God’s perspective”?</p>
<p>Compare this to the following taken from one of McConnell’s footnotes:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…It should be pointed out that ‘Reality’ as Kenyon uses it is a term used in New Thought and Christian Science to refer to the spiritual realm and truths that were hidden by the sensations of the physical realm, which were not reality at all, but was considered ‘error,’ the opposite of metaphysical reality….</em><sup>35</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>This is describing the concept in Brahmanism, a subset of Hinduism known as <strong><em>maya</em></strong>, or illusion.  The physical realm is considered a dream, illusion.  Kenyon above called it “the sense realm”.  As Ankerberg and Weldon explain, “…Essentially, the idea that the world is an illusion ‘hiding’ Brahman [sic] is a key teaching of Hinduism in America.  The teaching aims at supposedly revealing one’s inward divine nature by ‘contacting’ Brahman [sic] through occult practices such as yoga, meditation, and altered states of consciousness.”<sup>36</sup>  If Brahma/God is inside everything in “hiding”, then Brahma/God can be contacted by going inward via meditation/contemplative prayer and the individual can become “one” with “God” thereby possessing the very mind of “God”.  That’s the essence of Transcendental Meditation.</p>
<p>Is this similar to what Johnson means?  Taking the same basic information from another Johnson book, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">When Heaven Invades Earth</span></em>, we see the same concepts as explained above, “Repentance is not complete until it envisions His Kingdom”.<sup>37</sup></p>
<blockquote><p><em>The focus of repentance is to <span style="text-decoration:underline;">change our way of thinking until the presence of His Kingdom fills our consciousness</span>.  The enemy’s attempt to anchor our affections to the things that are visible is easily resisted when our hearts are aware of the presence of His world…</em></p>
<p><em>If the Kingdom is <strong>here and now</strong>, then we must acknowledge it’s in the <span style="text-decoration:underline;">invisible realm</span>.  Yet being <strong>at hand</strong> reminds us that it’s also <strong>within reach</strong>…</em><sup>38</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Note how Johnson compares the ‘visible’ to the ‘invisible’.  Is this like Kenyon’s ‘sense realm’ as opposed to ‘reality’?  Johnson continues with the same reference to Nicodemus in John 3:3 claiming we should be able to “see” the Kingdom now on earth rather than Jesus’ intention that this will be in the future at the consummation, the Second Coming.  Continuing with the quote:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…That which is unseen can be realized only through <strong>repentance</strong>.  It was as though He said, ‘If you don’t change the way you perceive things, you’ll live your whole life thinking what you see in the natural is the superior reality…</em><sup>39</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Does this not appear to be expressing the same basic New Age, Eastern and Unity doctrines described above? </p>
<h4><strong>Meditating on Johnson’s Doctrine of Meditation</strong></h4>
<p>Going back to the quote on Brahmanism and Johnson&#8217;s use of the word &#8220;reality&#8221;, what exactly <em>does</em> Johnson espouse regarding meditation?  In <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming With God</span></em> is Johnson’s explicit promotion of meditation which he begins with the definitive statement ‘<strong>Learn the biblical art of “meditation”</strong>’.<sup>40</sup> After quoting Psalm 77:6, he goes into his own definition utilizing the same methodology of Kenyon in making a disclaimer and then actually promoting the very thing disclaimed.  Yet, in this case he misconstrues the occult/esoteric practice of meditation:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…Biblical meditation is a diligent search.  Whereas religious cults teach people to empty their minds as the means of meditation, the Bible teaches us to fill our minds with God’s Word.  Meditation has a quiet heart and a ‘directed’ mind.  Mulling over a word in our heart, with a pursuit that springs from the inquisitive child’s heart, is meditation.</em><sup>41</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>First, notice that he seems to state the Biblically correct way to meditate on God’s Word in the first few sentences yet his concluding sentence runs contrary to what he just explained.  “Mulling over a word in our <span style="text-decoration:underline;">heart</span>” is not diligently studying and meditating on God’s Word using our <span style="text-decoration:underline;">mind</span>.  What he’s describing is actually a definition of occult esoteric meditation! </p>
<p>The teachings in Alice Bailey’s books [available from Lucis Trust, known initially as Lucifer Publishing] are recognized as the foundation for current New Age doctrine and practices.  Here’s a section from a book almost 100 years old describing meditation dos and don’ts as well as its purpose :</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…The stage at which a man awakens to group realisation, and becomes a conscious participant in the activities of the group is brought about in two ways: through meditation, and through a series of initiations…There is much misconception these days as to what meditation really is, and there is a great deal of so-called meditation which has been truly described by a person not so long ago, as ‘I shut my eyes, and open my mouth, and wait for something to happen.’  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The true meditation is something that requires the most intense application of the mind, the utmost control of thought</span>, and an attitude which is neither negative nor positive, but an equal balance between the two.  In the Eastern Scriptures the man who is attempting meditation and achieving results, is described as follows… ‘The Maha Yogi, the great ascetic, in whom is centred the highest perfection of austere penance and <strong>abstract meditation</strong>, by which the most unlimited powers are attained, marvels and miracles are worked, the highest spiritual knowledge is acquired, and <strong>union with the great Spirit of the universe is eventually attained.’</strong>  Here this union with the group life is held to be the product of meditation, and there is no other method of attainment.</em></p>
<p><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">True meditation (of which the preliminary stages are concentration upon and application to any particular line of thought)</span></em><em> will differ for different people and different types.  The religious man, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">the mystic, will centre his attention upon the life within the form, upon God, upon Christ, or upon that which embodies for him the ideal</span>…We need to find our own method of approach to that which lies within, and to study for ourselves this question of meditation.</em><sup>42</sup><em>   </em></p></blockquote>
<p>This “union with the great Spirit of the universe” – is this the same as “chang[ing] our way of thinking until the presence of His Kingdom fills our consciousness” thereby gaining “God’s perspective on reality” as Johnson states above by using his rather vaguely defined method of meditation?  Note the last sentence in the Bailey quote above – is this the reason Johnson’s description of the practice is so general?</p>
<p>Johnson asserts later in <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming with God</span></em>, “While it’s true that God does not give His glory to another, we’re not <em>another</em> – we are members of His Body” (the capital “B” in original).<sup>43</sup>  Does he mean God will give us His full “perspective on reality” along with His glory, or perhaps as Kenyon would say &#8220;God imparting His own nature to the human spirit&#8221;?  Johnson then goes on to quote John 16:13-15 and explains his interpretation:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…the Holy Spirit is therefore leading us into experiencing <strong>all truth</strong>.  He receives all of His instructions from the Father.  It was the Holy Spirit upon Jesus that enabled Him to know what the Father was doing and saying.  That <strong>same gift</strong> of the Spirit has been given to us for that <strong>same purpose</strong>.</em><sup>44</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Johnson is once again promoting the unbiblical and heterodox kenosis doctrine [see <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/kenosis-christology-and-bill-johnson-part-ii/">here</a> for more] in effect denying Jesus’ inherent divinity and, simultaneously, he is claiming that we will be able to communicate with God with the same clarity and frequency as Jesus during His earthly ministry.  This is not too dissimilar from John Hick’s assertion that the Incarnation was not actual but instead metaphorical in that the human Jesus of Nazareth so communed with God that He “incarnated” God in a figurative sense:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>The idea of the incarnation of God in the life of Jesus, so understood, is thus not a metaphysical claim about Jesus having two natures, but a metaphorical statement of the significance of a life through which God acted on earth.  In Jesus we see a man living in a startling degree of awareness of God and of response to God’s presence.</em><sup>45</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Thus, as per Hick, Jesus is merely an example of which we should aspire.<sup>46</sup>  Similarly, according to Johnson, we can achieve the same level of communion with God as Jesus as we <strong><em>repent</em></strong>, as per his redefinition of the term, and renew our minds by receiving God’s glory and thereby “view reality from God’s perspective” as did Jesus.</p>
<h4><strong>A New Age of Sanctified Imagination?</strong></h4>
<p>Elsewhere in this same book Johnson states, “A yielded imagination becomes a sanctified imagination; and it’s the sanctified imagination that is positioned for visions and dreams.  There is great paranoia over the use of the imagination in the Church of the Western World.”<sup>47</sup>  I suppose it could be argued that as we submit to the Holy Spirit as opposed to the flesh our entire mind is sanctified which would necessarily include our imagination, however, I contend that we can’t actually submit our imagination to the Spirit by itself as Johnson states.  In addition, Johnson’s words set up an expectation for visions and dreams when it’s the Spirit who gives as He determines (1 Cor 12:11).  But why is he using the word “imagination”?  Here’s Webster’s definition of <em><strong>imagination</strong></em>: </p>
<ol>
<li>(a) the act or power of forming mental images of what is not actually presents; (b) the act or power of creating mental images of what has never been actually experienced…creative power…</li>
<li>image in the mind; conception, idea</li>
<li>a foolish notion, empty fancy</li>
<li>the ability to understand and appreciate the imaginative creations in others, especially works of art and literature.<sup>48</sup></li>
</ol>
<p>Of the choices above the more generic #2 or the more esoteric #1 could apply given Johnson’s context although #1 appears more appropriate.  Johnson makes his meaning more obvious by the footnote accompanying this text:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong><em>Many prominent authors and conference speakers add fuel to the fire of fear assuming that because <span style="text-decoration:underline;">the new age movement</span> promotes it, its origins must be from the devil</em></strong><em>…</em><sup>49</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Does Johnson really believe it’s safe to assume that doctrines and practices of the New Age Movement can originate with God rather than the enemy?!  Does he not understand that the New Age worships a different god (actually many different “gods” including the god of self)?  Continuing with the above:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…I find that form of reasoning weak at best.  If we follow that line of thought we will continue to give the devil the tools that God has given us for success in life and ministry.  In doing so we will be building a confidence in the power of darkness above the Spirit of God.</em><sup>50</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>So then, what of God’s sovereignty?  Is He too weak to carry out His purposes?  This is yet another example of the numerous false dichotomies Johnson promotes.  However, is he stating this as justification to promote New Age doctrine and practice himself?</p>
<p>It is clear that Johnson’s explanation of <strong><em>repentance</em></strong> and <strong><em>renewing the mind</em> </strong>are at odds with historical orthodox Christianity.  While some of the wording is peculiar, this peculiar terminology and phraseology can be found in New Age teachings.  Is Bill Johnson embracing and teaching New Age doctrine whether wittingly or unwittingly?</p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>1</sup>Johnson, Bill. <span style="text-decoration:underline;"><em>Dreaming with God: Secrets to Redesigning Your World through God’s Creative Flow</em></span>. 2006, Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA; p 86 (1<sup>st</sup> endnote).  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>2</sup>Strong, J., Baker, W. and Zodhiates, S. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">AMG’s Annotated Strong’s Dictionaries</span></em>. 2009 (November, 1<sup>st</sup> printing), AMG Publishers, Chattanooga, TN; p 953.  <em>Pharmakeia</em> is Strong’s # 5331.<br />
<sup>3</sup>Johnson, <span style="text-decoration:underline;"><em>Dreaming</em></span>; p 30<br />
<sup>4</sup>Dictionary.com, “desire,” in <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Online Etymology Dictionary</span></em> source location: Douglas Harper, Historian. &lt;<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/desire">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/desire</a>&gt;.  Available: &lt;<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/">http://dictionary.reference.com</a>&gt;. As accessed 2/18/2012.<br />
<sup>5</sup>Johnson, Bill. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind: Access to a Life of Miracles</span></em>. © 2005 Bill Johnson, Destiny Image Publishers, Shippensburg, PA; p 44<br />
<sup>6</sup>McKechnie, Jean L. (Ed.) <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Webster’s New Twentieth Century (Unabridged)</span></em> © 1983, Simon &amp; Schuster, New York, NT; p 1533.  Dictionary.com, “repent,” in <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Online Etymology Dictionary</span></em> source location: Douglas Harper, Historian. &lt;<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/repent">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/repent</a>&gt;. Available: &lt;<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/">http://dictionary.reference.com</a>&gt;. As accessed 2/18/2012.<br />
<sup>7</sup>Erickson, Millard J. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Concise Dictionary of Christian Theology</span></em>. 1986, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI; p 142<br />
<sup>8</sup>McKim, Donald K. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms</span></em>. 1996, Westminster John Knox Press, Louisville, KY; p 237<br />
<sup>9</sup>Bromiley, Geoffrey W. (Gen. Ed.) <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia</span></em>. 1988, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, MI; p 3.136-137<br />
<sup>10</sup>Bromiley, p 3.137<br />
<sup>11</sup>Bauer, Walter, Danker, F.W., Arndt, W.F., Gingrich, F.W. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature</span></em>. 2000 (3<sup>rd</sup> ed.), University of Chicago Press, Chicago, IL; p 640.  Also known as and hereafter identified as “BDAG”.<br />
<sup>12</sup>BDAG, pp 640-641<br />
<sup>13</sup>BDAG, pp 636-638<br />
<sup>14</sup>BDAG, pp 674-675<br />
<sup>15</sup>Elwel, Walter A. (Ed.) <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Evangelical Dictionary of Theology</span></em>. 1984 (10<sup>th</sup> pr. 1994), Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI; p 936<br />
<sup>16</sup>McKim defines <em>heterodox</em> “[t]hat which is counter to or different from accepted orthodox belief in a church [p 127].  It seems to be a ‘softer’ term than <em>heresy</em>.<br />
<sup>17</sup>Unity School of Christianity <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Metaphysical Bible Dictionary</span></em>. 1931 (1955, 8<sup>th</sup> pr.), Unity School of Christianity (no publisher specified), Lee’s Summit, MO; p 552.  Underscore added; other emphasis in original.<br />
<sup>18</sup>Bourgeault, Cynthia <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Wisdom Jesus: Transforming Heart and Mind – a New Perspective on Christ and His Message</span></em>. 2008, Shambhala, Boston, MA; pp 25-33.  Bourgeault self-identifies as per the back cover as “an Episcopal priest, teacher, and retreat and conference speaker”.  The book promotes contemplative prayer, mysticism and worst of all, Jesus as merely one path [pp 65-71] putting her squarely in the New Age camp as well as a promoter of religious pluralism.  In addition, &#8220;Shambhala&#8221; is a New Age term from the Buddhist tradition.  It is also spelled &#8220;Shamballa&#8221;and is known in Theosophy/New Age as the dwelling place of the governing deity of earth, Sanat Kumara, and his &#8216;Spiritual Hierarcy&#8217; and other associates.<br />
<sup>19</sup>Bourgeault, p 30. Emphasis in original.<br />
<sup>20</sup>Bourgeault, p 37.  In a footnote referencing her redefinition of <em>meta</em> and <em>noia</em> she claims indebtedness to Marcus Borg as the source [<em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Heart of Christianity</span></em>. 2003, HarperSanFrancisco, San Francisco, CA; p 180].   Also, interestingly, the first quote, “change the direction in which you’re looking for happiness” is <a href="http://integrallife.com/contributors/father-thomas-keating">Thomas Keating</a>’s preferred definition as per her footnote.<br />
<sup>21</sup>Bourgeault, pp 37-38.  Emphasis in original.<br />
<sup>22</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Supernatural Power</span></em>, p 44<br />
<sup>23</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Supernatural Power</span></em>, p 44<br />
<sup>24</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Supernatural Power</span></em>, pp 44-45<br />
<sup>25</sup>Osborne, Grant, Arnold, Clinton E. (Gen. Ed.) <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Matthew: Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament</span></em>. © 2010 by Grant R. Osborne, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI; pp 228-229<br />
<sup>26</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Supernatural Power</span></em>, p 42<br />
<sup>27</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Supernatural Power</span></em>, p 45<br />
<sup>28</sup>McConnell, D. R. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">A Different Gospel: A Historical and Biblical Analysis of the Modern Faith Movement</span></em>. 1988 (4<sup>th</sup> pr. 1991), Hendrickson, Peabody, MA; pp 43-55.  Back cover states McConnell, &#8220;did his graduate work at Oral Roberts University in theological and historical studies&#8221;.<br />
<sup>29</sup>McConnell, p 45 citing Kenyon, E. W. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Hidden Man</span></em>. 1970, Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society, Seattle, WA; p 35<br />
<sup>30</sup>McConnell, p 45 citing Kenyon, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Hidden Man</span></em>, p 74.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>31</sup>McConnell, p 45 citing Kenyon, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Hidden Man</span></em>, p 137.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>32</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Supernatural Power</span></em>, p 43<br />
<sup>33</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Supernatural Power</span></em>, p 45<br />
<sup>34</sup>McConnell, p 45.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>35</sup>McConnell, p 55.  This is in a parenthetical note in his 53<sup>rd</sup> footnote.<br />
<sup>36</sup>Ankerberg, John, Weldon, John. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Encyclopedia of New Age Beliefs</span></em>. 1996, Harvest House, Eugene, OR; p 220.  The authors confuse Brahman with Brahma; “Brahma” is the name of this Hindu deity while “Brahman” denotes something ‘of Brahma’.<br />
<sup>37</sup>Johnson, Bill, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">When Heaven Invades Earth: A Practical Guide to a Life of Miracles</span></em>. 2003, Treasure House/Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA; p 38<br />
<sup>38</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Heaven Invades</span></em>, p 38. Bold in original, underscore added for emphasis.<br />
<sup>39</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Heaven Invades</span></em>, p 38. Emphasis in original.<br />
<sup>40</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming</span></em>, p 132.  Bold in original.<br />
<sup>41</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming</span></em>, p 132.<br />
<sup>42</sup>Bailey, Alice A. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Consciousness of the Atom</span></em>. © 1961 Lucis Trust (1<sup>st</sup> pressing 1922, 9<sup>th</sup> prtng. 1974 (2<sup>nd</sup> paperback ed.)), Fort Orange Press, Albany, NY; pp 110-112.  Underscore added for emphasis, other emphasis and spelling as per original.<br />
<sup>43</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming</span></em>, p 135.  Emphasis in original.<br />
<sup>44</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming</span></em>, p 136.  Emphasis in original.<br />
<sup>45</sup>Hick, John, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Metaphor of God Incarnate</span></em>. © 1993, 2005 (2005 2<sup>nd</sup> ed.), SCM-Canterbury Press, Great Britain; p 102<br />
<sup>46</sup>Hick; p 109-110<br />
<sup>47</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming</span></em>, p 67<br />
<sup>48</sup>McKechnie, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Webster’s</span></em>, p 907<br />
<sup>49</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming</span></em>, p 86 (1<sup>st</sup> endnote).  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>50</sup>Johnson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dreaming</span></em>, p 86</span></span></p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/alice-a-bailey/'>Alice A. Bailey</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/contemplative-spirituality/'>Contemplative Spirituality</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/e-w-kenyon/'>E. W. Kenyon</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/esoteric/'>esoteric</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-gospel/'>False Gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/gnosticism/'>Gnosticism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/meditation-2/'>Meditation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-age/'>New Age</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-spirituality/'>New Spirituality</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-thought/'>New Thought</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/repentance/'>Repentance</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/unity-2/'>Unity</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/word-of-faith/'>Word of Faith</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/contemplative-prayer/'>Contemplative Prayer</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/cynthia-bourgeault/'>Cynthia Bourgeault</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/e-w-kenyon/'>E. W. Kenyon</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/eastern-religions/'>Eastern Religions</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/esoteric/'>esoteric</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/etymology/'>Etymology</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-gospel-2/'>false gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teacher/'>false teacher</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/gnosticism/'>Gnosticism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/john-hick/'>John Hick</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/justification/'>Justification</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/kenneth-e-hagin/'>Kenneth E. Hagin</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/lance-wallnau/'>Lance Wallnau</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/maya/'>maya</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/meditation/'>meditation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/meditative-prayer/'>Meditative Prayer</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/metanoia/'>metanoia</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/metaphysical/'>metaphysical</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-age-movement/'>New Age Movement</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-age-religion/'>New Age Religion</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/renewing-your-mind/'>Renewing Your Mind</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/sanctification/'>Sanctification</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/sanctified-imagination/'>sanctified imagination</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/signs-and-wonders/'>signs and wonders</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/transformation-of-consciousness/'>transformation of consciousness</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/unity-church/'>Unity Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/visions-and-dreams/'>visions and dreams</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/wisdom-jesus/'>Wisdom Jesus</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/word-of-faith/'>Word of Faith</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/wordfaith/'>Word/Faith</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6925/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=6925&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/learning-etymology-with-bill-johnson-a-new-age-repentance/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>20</slash:comments>
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Todd Bentley Needs Your Seed Money to Raise $20,000</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/todd-bentley-needs-your-seed-money-to-raise-20000/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/todd-bentley-needs-your-seed-money-to-raise-20000/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bethel Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Johnson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dominionism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[False Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Healing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Latter Rain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Apostolic Reformation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophet]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophetic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[TBN]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Trinity Broadcasting Network]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Word of Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teacher]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sow a Seed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Word/Faith]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=6125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Recently the Australian government denied Todd Bentley access resulting in the cancellation of the Fresh Fire scheduled tour of Australia.  Now Fresh Fire USA Ministries is in financial straits and looking for you to $ow a $eed for a$$istance.  Our last minute delay in our planned tour to Australia was a huge disappointment of course. It [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=6125&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently the Australian government denied Todd Bentley access resulting in the cancellation of the Fresh Fire scheduled tour of Australia.  Now Fresh Fire USA Ministries is in <a href="http://www.freshfireusa.com/writings/view/206-Urgent-Update-from-Todd-Bentley">financial straits</a> and looking for you to $ow a $eed for a$$istance. </p>
<blockquote><p><em>Our last minute delay in our planned tour to Australia was a huge disappointment of course. It was also a huge financial set back for our ministry. Our immediate expenses just in Airfare and travel was over 10,000…The need is still $20,000.</em></p>
<p><em>Would you pray with us and consider sowing a seed into our ministry today!  If each of you that have been blessed by our ministry over the years would consider a gift at this time we can more than enough recover our shortfall and move forward in 2012.  We know that this is a great year of the nations for us.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>It’s rather curious that not one prophetic minister friend could foresee that Bentley would be refused entry into Australia thereby averting his financial woes in the first place.  Were these prophets all sleeping, in deep thought, busy, or travelling [cf. 1 Kings 18:27]?</p>
<p>It’s also curious that Bentley would need financial assistance given that, according to <a href="http://www.bjm.org/friends.html">his friend Bill Johnson</a> (as but one example), the teaching is such that salvation is a full restoration of “His original purpose” meaning no more sin, sickness, or poverty:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>“…Jesus destroyed the power of sin, sickness, and poverty through His redemptive work on the cross.  In Adam and Eve’s commission to subdue the earth, they were without sickness, poverty, and sin.  Now that we are restored to His original purpose, should we expect anything less?  After all, this is the better covenant!” </em>[<em>When Heaven Invades Earth</em>, 2003, Treasure House/Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA; p 33]</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps Bentley just does not yet have the requisite amount of faith. </p>
<p>But I have an idea.  In reverse TBN fashion why not just email Todd and ask him to send $200 to you dear reader?  Given the purported principle of a 100-fold return, Bentley would subsequently receive his $20,000 with just this one donation!  Any takers?</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/dominionism/'>Dominionism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-gospel/'>False Gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/healing/'>Healing</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/prophet/'>Prophet</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/tbn/'>TBN</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/todd-bentley/'>Todd Bentley</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/trinity-broadcasting-network/'>Trinity Broadcasting Network</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/word-of-faith/'>Word of Faith</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/dominionism/'>Dominionism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-gospel-2/'>false gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teacher/'>false teacher</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/sow-a-seed/'>Sow a Seed</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/todd-bentley/'>Todd Bentley</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/word-of-faith/'>Word of Faith</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/wordfaith/'>Word/Faith</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/6125/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=6125&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/todd-bentley-needs-your-seed-money-to-raise-20000/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>13</slash:comments>
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Does Becoming a New Creature in Christ Mean New DNA?</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/28/does-becoming-a-new-creature-in-christ-mean-new-dna/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/28/does-becoming-a-new-creature-in-christ-mean-new-dna/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Damon Thompson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[False Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[TBN]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Ramp]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Trinity Broadcasting Network]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[apostle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teacher]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heresy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Apostolic Reformation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophetic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs and wonders]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=5985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ “…Not only did her DNA not match the crime scene, her DNA didn’t match her DNA.” - Damon Thompson of The Ramp Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and switch on the TV.  Last night while having yet another bit of insomnia I flipped through the channels landing at Trinity Broadcasting Network [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=5985&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p style="text-align:center;"> <em>“…Not only did her DNA not match the crime scene, her DNA didn’t match her DNA.”</em></p>
<p style="text-align:right;">- Damon Thompson of <em>The Ramp</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and switch on the TV.  Last night while having yet another bit of insomnia I flipped through the channels landing at Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) finding <a href="http://www.damonthompsonministries.net/content/about-us/">Damon Thompson</a> of <a href="http://theramp.org/">The Ramp</a>.  I’ve heard him before and found him to be a bit ‘off’, but this time he said something that really woke me up.  Not having pen and paper nearby, I wasn’t sure if I could write down exactly what he said; however, thankfully, someone has posted this very thing on YouTube so that I can post it here:</p>
<p><iframe width="630" height="473" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Srj3DlsHYdg?fs=1&#038;feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></p>
<blockquote><p><em>…not only did her DNA not match the crime scene, her DNA didn’t match her DNA.  Six months earlier they had checked her DNA.  Six months later they check her DNA and her DNA is not the same DNA because if any man be in Christ he is a new creature…</em></p></blockquote>
<p>This raises all sorts of questions:</p>
<p>Should all believers expect impunity from crimes committed prior to conversion? </p>
<p>Does this mean that all ‘born again’ (born from above) believers have new DNA?</p>
<p>Should we check DNA of all inmates post-conversion and compare to DNA pre-conversion in order to set free all those whose DNA has changed?  (This would sure make the Gospel very good news indeed and certainly lead to many more jailhouse conversions.)</p>
<p>Would a DNA change then be the sure marker of a true convert?</p>
<p>Should we believe Damon Thompson and his story? <img title="damon-headshot271" src="http://www.damonthompsonministries.net/content/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/damon-headshot271.jpg" alt="damon-headshot271" width="138" height="125" /></p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/damon-thompson/'>Damon Thompson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-gospel/'>False Gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/tbn/'>TBN</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/the-ramp/'>The Ramp</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/trinity-broadcasting-network/'>Trinity Broadcasting Network</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/apostle-2/'>apostle</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-gospel-2/'>false gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teacher/'>false teacher</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/heresy/'>Heresy</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/signs-and-wonders/'>signs and wonders</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5985/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=5985&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/28/does-becoming-a-new-creature-in-christ-mean-new-dna/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>14</slash:comments>
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://www.damonthompsonministries.net/content/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/damon-headshot271.jpg" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">damon-headshot271</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Anthology of Bill Johnson Articles (So Far)</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/anthology-of-bill-johnson-articles-so-far/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/anthology-of-bill-johnson-articles-so-far/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 03:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[anointing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[antichrist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apostle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[baptism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bethel Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Johnson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bob Jones]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dominionism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[James Goll]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kenosis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kris Vallotton]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Latter Rain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manifest Sons of God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Apostolic Reformation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Breed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Thought]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophetic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[esoteric]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teacher]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gnosticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heresy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom of God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Age Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs and wonders]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Word of Faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Word/Faith]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=5522</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In Joseph Garlington&#8217;s foreword to Bill Johnson&#8217;s Face to Face with God: The Quest to Experience His Presence [2007, Charisma House, Lake Mary, FL], he quotes from Don Miller&#8217;s Blue Like Jazz who asserts jazz music &#8216;never resolves&#8217;.  Miller goes on to claim that God &#8220;doesn&#8217;t resolve.&#8221;  Garlington then compares this to Johnson: Bill&#8217;s ministry embraces [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=5522&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Joseph Garlington&#8217;s foreword to Bill Johnson&#8217;s <em>Face to Face with God: The Quest to Experience His Presence </em>[2007, Charisma House, Lake Mary, FL], he quotes from Don Miller&#8217;s <em>Blue Like Jazz</em> who asserts jazz music &#8216;never resolves&#8217;.  Miller goes on to claim that God &#8220;doesn&#8217;t resolve.&#8221;  Garlington then compares this to Johnson:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Bill&#8217;s ministry embraces paradox as though it is the most normal thing in the world&#8230;Often in his teaching ministry Bill will make a statement without &#8216;resolving&#8217; it&#8230;His teaching entices you to pursue a way of thinking that is often foreign to traditional teachers, and it whets your appetite for something you always knew was there&#8230;</em></p></blockquote>
<p>I recall in another book Johnson making a reference to jazz.  So, does Bill Johnson like jazz music that doesn&#8217;t resolve, i.e. the more <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/avant-garde"><em>avant garde</em></a> (unorthodox, experimental, &#8220;cutting edge&#8221;) flavor of jazz?</p>
<blockquote><p><em>&#8230;Years ago I bought a jazz album on a whim.  I eagerly looked forward to something fresh and new as I placed it on the turntable&#8230; </em>[<em>Dreaming with God: The Ultimate Quest to Experience His Presence, </em>2006, Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA; p 47]</p></blockquote>
<p>Hey, NOW we&#8217;re talkin&#8217;!  So, Johnson likes jazz <strong><em>and </em></strong>he has a turntable?!   My interest is piqued as I have an extensive collection of jazz records (vinyl) which I still play on a turntable.  &#8221;We just might be able to have a mutually edifying conversation about jazz,&#8221; I ponder.  Not too sure about theology though. </p>
<p>I wonder &#8211; which artists in jazz does Johnson like?  Perhaps it&#8217;s the spiritual/free jazz of the &#8217;60s such as <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQzJsGAHsVM">Albert Ayler</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k5CKS9Ntvk&amp;feature=related">Pharoah Sanders</a>, late-period John Coltrane and the like?  Perhaps <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PppJOrnVtkg">this piece by the Art Ensemble of Chicago with Fontella Bass</a> (whose classic <a href="http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=N&amp;biw=1024&amp;bih=567&amp;tbm=isch&amp;tbnid=leyRzvyGQYu4LM:&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.classic45s.com/product_info.php%3Fproducts_id%3D2409%26cPath%3D21_25_73&amp;docid=8q63wYTyh9RHSM&amp;imgurl=http://www.classic45s.com/images/fontellabass5.jpg&amp;w=300&amp;h=300&amp;ei=tN4aT5XEJab-2QXmorD7Cw&amp;zoom=1&amp;iact=hc&amp;vpx=118&amp;vpy=206&amp;dur=4890&amp;hovh=225&amp;hovw=225&amp;tx=140&amp;ty=149&amp;sig=117445680273999096858&amp;page=10&amp;tbnh=166&amp;tbnw=166&amp;start=122&amp;ndsp=12&amp;ved=1t:429,r:8,s:122">&#8220;Rescue Me&#8221;</a> many confuse with Aretha Franklin as being the singer)? Or, maybe he prefers the heyday of Blue Note with such artists as <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V3PXsHqw7M">Lee Morgan</a>, Donald Byrd, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLdm1yuoU_Q">Horace Silver</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqSLoxwkCYE">Jimmy Smith</a>, etc.?  Or, perhaps he likes stuff such as <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmDDOFXSgAs">Dave Brubeck</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0zRDhiVeZ4">Thelonious Monk</a> or perhaps <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnurVNkg62Q">Duke Ellington</a>?  Vocalists such as Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald or Sarah Vaughan?  Maybe he&#8217;s a Miles Davis fan &#8211; but, then which era?  Perhaps Miles&#8217; <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PruMPJTsqvo">electric era</a> of the late &#8217;60s into the &#8217;70s?  Or, how about <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7j-Hm2NgFM&amp;feature=related">Sun Ra</a> (born Herman &#8220;Sonny&#8221; Blount)?  Now Ra had some very esoteric theology to go with his diverse musical excursions.   Perhaps he likes more contemporary stuff on the German ECM label some of which is European although the label includes the music of American <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNOxJYNOwJU&amp;feature=related">Keith Jarrett</a> among others.  Or, maybe this relatively new band <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEW7YD9CPuo&amp;feature=related">Tongues of Fire</a>?  Hopefully, he&#8217;s not calling stuff like Kenny G &#8216;jazz&#8217;.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>&#8230;But I was horribly disappointed.  It sounded like a child randomly pounding on a piano, with no melody or harmonies, no consistent rhythm, nothing to give it purpose or direction&#8230; </em>[<em>Dreaming</em>; p 47]</p></blockquote>
<p>Hmmm.  Well, no, it doesn&#8217;t appear he likes <em>avant garde</em> jazz.  He just prefers his theology that way.</p>
<p>In any case, this thought process led me to anthologize the Bill Johnson posts here on the site.  How did I come to that?  Well, record companies tend to anthologize the works of artists in order to acquire a larger audience and hence boost sales.  Of course, I&#8217;m not looking to make any money, but I do want this information disseminated to the largest audience possible.</p>
<p>Initially I considered titling the post facetiously &#8220;The Best of Bill Johnson&#8221; but I didn&#8217;t want to potentially confuse or mislead lest anyone think I&#8217;ve now begun to promote Johnson&#8217;s material as if I was like-minded.  Alternatively, I pondered borrowing a ploy by RCA Victor used on a Jefferson Airplane compilation titled &#8220;The Worst of&#8230;&#8221;, but I thought some readers would find it too negative or offensive.  So, it was decided to use the more neutral &#8221;anthology&#8221; with the parenthetical &#8221;So Far&#8221; a nod to the title of a Crosby, Stills, Nash &amp; Young compilation of the same name. </p>
<p>Without further ado, here are the articles (so far):</p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/09/17/bill-johnsons-born-again-jesus-part-i/">Bill Johnson&#8217;s &#8216;Born Again&#8217; Jesus, part I</a> which also discusses portions of his book <em>When Heaven Invades Earth </em>in which Johnson discloses his kenotic Jesus and his assertion that anyone against the &#8220;anointing&#8221; (as he defines it) is anti-christ.</p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/bill-johnsons-born-again-jesus-part-ii/">part II</a> shows how close he comes to the Kenyon/Hagin &#8217;Jesus died spiritually&#8217; heresy in his proof-texts for the &#8216;born again Jesus&#8217; in addition to his view that Jesus received the &#8220;Baptism of/in the Holy Spirit&#8221; in the Jordan, plus his (and other) Latter Rain and Manifest Sons of God leanings seemingly not too far from New Age ideology.</p>
<p>&#8211;  Johnson and other quotes on Dominionism in <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/10/28/the-kingdom-of-god-is-at-hand-part-ii/">The Kingdom of God is at Hand, part II</a> which questions just which kingdom is being promoted.</p>
<p>Speaking of paradox: can someone resolve the apparent contradiction inherent in Jim Goll&#8217;s foretelling prophecy of Johnson&#8217;s acquisition of a library related to someone with the name &#8217;Roberts&#8217; given that Johnson had already purchased Roberts Liardon&#8217;s library the year before?:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/12/18/bill-johnsons-library-mandate/">Bill Johnson&#8217;s Library Mandate</a> - a “direct from headquarters” mandate.</p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/12/18/update-bill-johnsons-library-mandate/">Update: Bill Johnson&#8217;s Library Mandate</a></p></blockquote>
<p>&#8211;  Johnson endorsing Bob Jones: <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/bethel-to-feature-bob-jones-at-upcoming-prophetic-conference/">Bethel hosting a &#8220;prophetic conference&#8221; featuring Bob Jones</a>.</p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/bill-johnson-and-the-sign-of-jonah/">Bill Johnson and the Sign of Jonah</a>:  <em>“If signs and wonders don’t follow you, follow them until they follow you.”</em></p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/10/10/signs-that-make-you-wonder/">Signs That Make You Wonder</a>: &#8220;<em>&#8230;it’s just increasing all kinds of manifestations. It’s the angelic realm; it’s just the supernatural breaking into this one: the gold and the oil and the wind. We’ve been having gusts of wind that just come out of nowhere. And, uh, ya know, it’s all good. It’s all signs that make you wonder&#8230;&#8221;</em></p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/open-challenge-to-bill-johnsonbethel-supporters/">Open Challenge to Bill Johnson/Bethel Supporters</a> regarding a specific quote in <em>When Heaven Invades Earth:  </em><em>“Jesus lived His earthly life with human limitations. He laid his [sic] divinity aside as He sought to fulfill the assignment given to Him by the Father: to live life as a man without sin, and then die in the place of mankind for sin. This would be essential in His plan to redeem mankind. The sacrifice that could atone for sin had to be a lamb, (powerless), and had to be spotless, (without sin)”</em> [<em>When Heaven Invades Earth</em>, 2003, Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA; p 79].</p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/another-challenge-to-bill-johnsonbethel-supporters/">Another Challenge to Bill Johnson/Bethel Supporters</a>regarding a Johnson tweet (which also occurs in other material). <em>“<strong>Jesus is returning for a bride whose body is in equal proportion to her head.”</strong></em></p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/kenosis-christology-and-bill-johnson-part-ii/">More in depth look at Johnson&#8217;s Kenosis</a>: <em>“…Jesus gave Himself to be crucified.  <strong>He did not raise Himself from the dead</strong>…His job was to give His life to die.  The Father raised Him by the Spirit…”</em></p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/kris-vallotton-and-the-%e2%80%9cmantle-of-jesus-christ%e2%80%9d-bill-johnson-on-corporate-anointing/">Kris Vallotton and the Mantle of Jesus Christ/Bill Johnson on Corporate Anointing</a>:<em>“…Not just the mantle of William Branham, how about the mantle of Jesus Christ?  That’s even a bigger one there…”</em></p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/by-whose-power-does-bill-johnson-perform-healings/">By Whose Power Does Bill Johnson Heal?</a>: <strong><em>“What have I done? This guy thinks he hobbled in here…wait until he tries to walk out!”</em></strong></p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/greater-works-shall-you-do/">Greater works than Jesus?</a>: &#8230;<em>Many theologians seek to honor the works of Jesus as unattainable, which is religion, fathered by unbelief&#8230;</em> </p>
<p>&#8211;  <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/03/28/deliverance-from-extreme-pentecostalism-a-personal-testimony-regarding-bethels-influence/">A personal testimony about Bethel&#8217;s influence</a></p>
<p>In keeping with the tradition in the recording industry which induces fans to acquire anthologies even if they have all the artist&#8217;s previous work, I&#8217;ll close with a rather &#8216;electrifying&#8217; quote of Bill Johnson not used in any previous CrossWise article taken from<em> Face to Face with God</em>:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>I went from being in a dead sleep to being wide-awake in a moment.  Unexplainable power began to pulsate through my body.  It was as if I had been plugged into a wall socket with a thousand volts of electricity flowing through my body.  An extremely powerful being seemed to have entered the room, and I could not function in His presence.  My arms and legs shot out in silent explosions as this power was released through my hands and feet.  The more I tried to stop it, the worse it got.  I soon discovered that this was not a wrestling match I was going to win.  I heard no voice, nor did I have any visions.  This was the most overwhelming experience of my life.  It was raw power.  It was God.  He had come in response to the prayer I had been praying. </em>[p 8]</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m thinkin&#8217; Johnson may prefer electric jazz&#8230;</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/anointing/'>anointing</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/antichrist/'>antichrist</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/apostle/'>Apostle</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/baptism/'>baptism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bob-jones/'>Bob Jones</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/dominionism/'>Dominionism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/james-goll/'>James Goll</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/kenosis/'>Kenosis</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/kris-vallotton/'>Kris Vallotton</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-breed/'>New Breed</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-thought/'>New Thought</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/anointing/'>anointing</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/antichrist/'>antichrist</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bob-jones/'>Bob Jones</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/christology/'>Christology</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/dominionism/'>Dominionism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/esoteric/'>esoteric</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-gospel-2/'>false gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teacher/'>false teacher</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/gnosticism/'>Gnosticism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/heresy/'>Heresy</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/kenosis/'>Kenosis</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/kingdom-of-god/'>Kingdom of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-age-religion/'>New Age Religion</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/signs-and-wonders/'>signs and wonders</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/todd-bentley/'>Todd Bentley</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/word-of-faith/'>Word of Faith</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/wordfaith/'>Word/Faith</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5522/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=5522&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/anthology-of-bill-johnson-articles-so-far/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>20</slash:comments>
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Book Review: Exploring Kenotic Christology by C. Stephen Evans (Ed.)</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/book-review-exploring-kenotic-christology-by-c-stephen-evans-ed/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/book-review-exploring-kenotic-christology-by-c-stephen-evans-ed/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Book Review]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kenosis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bruce Fisk]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[C. Stephen Evans]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Chalcedonian Creed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cornelius Plantinga Jr.]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward T. Oakes]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edwin Chr. van Driel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[functional kenosis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gordon Fee]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Oliver Crisp]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ontological kenosis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ronald J. Feenstra]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ruth Groenhout]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sarah Coakley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stephen T. Davis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Thomas R. Thompson]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=5183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[C. Stephen Evans Exploring Kenotic Christology: The Self-Emptying of God. 2010 (2006 Oxford University Press), Regent College Publishing, Vancouver, BC.  A truncated version is posted on Amazon.] C. Stephen Evans’ compilation of modern essays on kenotic Christology brings together a number of current proponents of the kenosis theory with a few adherents of the historically [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=5183&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;">[C. Stephen Evans <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Exploring Kenotic Christology: The Self-Emptying of God</span></em>. 2010 (2006 Oxford University Press), Regent College Publishing, Vancouver, BC.  A truncated version is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/review/R14QKFBKXY7Z43/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R14QKFBKXY7Z43">posted on Amazon</a>.]</span></span></p>
<p style="text-align:left;"><a href="http://www.baylor.edu/philosophy/index.php?id=001938">C. Stephen Evans’</a> compilation of modern essays on kenotic Christology brings together a number of current proponents of the <a href="http://rediscoveringthebible.com/ChristologyKenotic.pdf">kenosis theory</a> with a few adherents of the historically orthodox view.  The essays are written by philosophers, theologians and Biblical scholars all professing Christian faith.  Certainly, some strides have been made in attempting to articulate a more coherent (and varied) kenosis doctrine since <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Thomasius">Gottfried Thomasius</a> first proposed his theory in the mid-nineteenth century.  Yet, there are still problems inherent in any literal ‘self-emptying’ and/or ‘self-limiting’ doctrine with respect to the Word (<em>Logos</em>) when compared to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon">Chalcedon</a> and, by extension, Scripture.</p>
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/1573834440/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&amp;n=283155&amp;s=books" target="AmazonHelp"><img src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41L7HQI9NJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg" alt="Exploring Kenotic Christology: The Self-Emptying of God" width="195" height="200" border="0" /></a>Confusingly, some use the term <em>kenosis</em> as a way to define the Word’s (<em>Logos’</em>) necessary limitations <em>qua</em> human while neither divesting divine attributes nor limiting the usage thereof during the Incarnation which is in actuality merely defining Chalcedonian orthodoxy.   For example, to claim that Jesus is limited in power yet God the Son is omnipotent is consistent with historical, orthodox Christianity.  Yet others in modern times use the term in ways far removed from the starting point of orthodoxy even going so far as denying pre-existence.  <a href="http://www.calvin.edu/academic/religion/faculty/thompson/">Thomas R. Thompson</a> explains, “Kenoticism is now applied to various Christological projects that differ significantly from the intent and strictures of nineteenth-century advocates” [p 102].  Thankfully, the essayists in this volume all affirm the Logos’ pre-existence though some depart from orthodoxy in other areas.  On the more orthodox end, we have scholar <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Fee">Gordon Fee</a> in his working definition as “some form of self-limitation of divine prerogatives on the part of the earthly Jesus” [p 29].  However, others use the term in the sense of either <em>ontological kenosis</em> (the Word no longer retains certain, or perhaps any, divine attributes) or <em>functionalist kenosis</em> (the Word retains all divine attributes yet restricts the usage of some or all).  For the benefit of the reader, the type of kenosis will be listed with the explanation of the essayist(s)’s stance in this review – ontological or functionalist (which will also be collectively identified as “unorthodox”) as opposed to orthodox (fully Chalcedonian/Biblical).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Not surprisingly, Fee, a renowned exegete, offers the most Scriptural examination of Jesus Christ’s earthly life.  He cautions against overly humanizing the divine or improperly divinizing the humanity of the Incarnate Christ for to do the latter is a sort of “naïve docetism.”  Fee does an excellent job of debunking <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dunn_(theologian)">James D.G. Dunn</a>&#8216;s exposition of Philippians 2:6-11 as an ‘Adam Christology’ [30-32].  While not technically kenotic (excepting perhaps a modern understanding of the term), Dunn asserts that the Apostle Paul understood Christ as a man (Adam) rather than the pre-existent Logos who was subsequently made flesh [Dunn, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Christology in the Making</span></em> 1980,Westminster; pp 113-128].  Fee provides a fairly thorough exegesis of the Philippians passage illustrating that the best way to understand the ‘self-emptying’ is metaphorically rather than literally.  At times he seems to be propounding a functionalist kenosis [34], yet it appears Fee is merely explaining the Biblical grounds with which to approach the study of the humiliation of Jesus Christ [the Incarnation from conception to Cross and subsequent burial] to stay within the bounds of Chalcedonian orthodoxy [29].  Fee neither attempts to explicitly debunk any of the historically unorthodox kenosis theories (save Dunn’s) nor fully define his own stance.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.westmont.edu/_academics/departments/religious_studies/bruce-n-fisk.html">Bruce Fisk</a> agrees with the logic of kenosis, yet his essay focuses primarily on comparing the Philippians hymn (2:6-11) with contemporaneous Graeco-Roman fiction and how the Christ-hymn might have been understood by first century readers.  While interesting in its own right, it sheds only a small to moderate amount of light on the discussion of kenosis in this volume as <a href="http://normtroubles.blogspot.com/">Fisk</a>, frustratingly, neglects to specifically state his own position.  To be fair, he does explain portions of the text by providing some commentary of orthodox scholars of whom he agrees (or seems to agree) with opposing viewpoints as well.  Furthermore, to his credit, Fisk touches on the problems in defining the Greek (transliterated) <em>harpagmos</em> [in verse 2:6b - see further explanation in section C of <a href="http://faculty.bbc.edu/rdecker/rd_ken.htm">Rodney Decker's exegesis</a>] given its limited usage both in Scripture (only one time) and extra-Biblical material noting that he himself leans toward the view of Moule, Hoover and Wright that Christ “did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited” [63-4].</div>
<div> </div>
<p><a href="http://www.calvin.edu/news/2008-09/ruth-groenhout/">Ruth Groenhout</a> compares kenosis (self-emptying) in general to feminist thought arguing that self-sacrifice is not antithetical to feminism: “When placed in the context of a robust notion of self-worth, and when oriented toward service to the Kingdom rather than purposeless self-abnegation, self-sacrifice is an appropriate call for all who call themselves followers of Christ” [311].  She makes a somewhat useful analogy of Christ’s state of humiliation in comparing fairy tale kings who temporarily dress as peasants setting aside the prerogatives of royalty who subsequently return to the throne receiving again their full due [297].   Noting that some feminists dismiss Christ’s sacrifice out of hand merely because He was male, Groenhout points out: “His life, death, and resurrection, however, are not intrinsically tied to his masculinity, but to this humanity” [312].  While this is a very profitable essay in its own right, it does little to advance the discussion of the kenosis theory.</p>
<p>Thomas R. Thompson provides a useful history of nineteenth century kenosis discussing various models and their resultant criticisms from the right and the left.  In summation, Thompson asserts that any non-kenotic theory devolves into paradox with contradiction (in distinction from merely paradox) which makes ‘classical’ (19<sup>th</sup> century) or modern kenosis theories more palatable in comparison.  Better, according to Thompson, to accept some paradox “pushing beyond contradiction, if possible” [110] in explicating a kenosis theory.  With this in mind, he notes that the <a href="http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search/controller/view/impa-m47105.html">W. F. Gess</a> model (the Logos truly BECAME flesh as a human soul and gradually regained deity throughout the Incarnation – a true metamorphosis of the divine Logos) is “the most consistent and coherent” [111] while conceding it failed in the claim of deity.  Yet incredibly (especially in light of the fact that he’s at least cognizant that the Word was to sustain the cosmos [94], cf. Hebrews 1:3; Colossians 1:17), Thompson believes this kenotic motif provides the most promise asserting that a Gessian model can somehow “make the deity claim” concluding with, “But, that is the argument for another work” [111].   This most extreme of the ontologically kenotic theories has been described by La Touche as “incarnation by divine suicide” [“The Person of Christ in Modern Thought” in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Berkhof">L. Berkhof</a>, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Systematic Theology</span></em>, Eerdmans; p 327].</p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterbalance.org/bio/oakes-body.html">Edward T. Oakes</a> expresses an understanding of the mystery of the Incarnation: “To explain that paradox by saying ‘the infinite has emptied itself to become finite’ certainly resolves that paradox.  But if one interprets self-emptying too univocally or too radically, the paradox is not just resolved but abolished” [218-219].  Oakes then proceeds to expound on an essay by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Urs_von_Balthasar">Hans Urs van Balthasar</a> putting forth a view that Jesus “descended into hell”, i.e. Gehenna rather than merely the grave, between the Cross and the Resurrection (which, perhaps to some, could well be a logical conclusion to ontological kenosis given that Christ took on the sins of the world [cf. 2 Cor. 5:21]).  To support the view, Oakes/Balthasar use the Apostles’ Creed and much-disputed Biblical texts primarily 1 Peter 3:18-20 the disparate views of which are aptly described by <a href="http://www.ligonier.org/about/rc-sproul/">R.C. Sproul</a> who admits his own view is in the minority: “I would hasten to add that most views of this passage are in the minority, since there is no majority view on the meaning of this text…” [<em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">St. Andrew’s Expositional Commentary: 1-2 Peter</span></em>, Crossway; p 125].  <a href="http://www.ps.edu/about-us/faculty-staff-board/resident-faculty/wayne-a-grudem/">Wayne Grudem</a> explains the various theories related to this passage in the appendix of the <a href="http://www.christianbook.com/1-peter-tyndale-new-testament-commentary/wayne-grudem/9780830842476/pd/842476">TNTC of 1 Peter</a> taking 37 pages to do so.  Neither Sproul nor Grudem construe this passage as remotely kenotic, and Grudem contends the phrase in the Apostles’ Creed is not in the earliest versions of the Creed [<em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Systematic Theology</span></em>, Zondervan; pp 583-588 cited from Schaff, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Creeds of Christendom</span></em>] and on that basis he omits it from his systematic [p 1169].  Orthodoxy vehemently denies Jesus literally went to hell.</p>
<p>Not wishing to “abolish the paradox”, Oakes asserts that Jesus Christ was literally the Word ‘become’ flesh [218, 236] (a la Gess as Thompson proposes above); subsequently, the second person of the Triune Godhead actually becomes wholly separated from the rest of the Trinity post-Cross [similar to the ‘<a href="http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith2.html">Jesus Died Spiritually</a>’ heresy of some Word of Faith teachers] at which point the kenosis is “subsumed” into the Trinity and the Trinity is “transformed” [241].  Oakes ends his essay with his admonition to “leave the paradox as stark as possible” [245].</p>
<p>In the Thompson/<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Plantinga">Cornelius Plantinga Jr.</a> chapter the authors assert that kenosis theories are dependent upon the adoption of a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_trinity">‘social’ view of the Trinity</a> but one that does not go so far as implicit or explicit <a href="http://carm.org/tritheism">tritheism</a> [as Oakes’ essay does so implicitly].  While I’m not so sure that the authors make their case, there are other problematic issues put forth.  Again, the Gessian kenotic theory is the preferred model [170, 176].  In speaking of Gess’ view, <a href="http://www.theopedia.com/Lewis_Sperry_Chafer">Chafer</a> aptly describes it thus, “This theory is so untrue…that it needs no minute refutation” [<em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Systematic Theology</span></em>, Kregel; I.380].</p>
<p>In asking the question “Is kenosis orthodox?”, <a href="http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/academic/faculty/profile.asp?Fac=21">Stephen T. Davis</a>, sets out to ‘prove’ that kenosis can be congruent with the Chalcedonian view that the Incarnate Christ was fully human and fully divine, “I am suggesting a kenotic theory as a way of interpreting Chalcedon” [115].  Davis does not propose a fully formed theory; he merely attempts to show that kenosis (vaguely defined) is orthodox.   To counter the charge that a kenosis entailing a ‘laying aside’ or restricting of the ‘omni’ attributes denies divine immutability Davis claims “soft immutability” such that “God is not fickle, capricious, mercurial, or moody; God’s holy and benevolent nature remains ever and eternally the same; God is faithful in keeping God’s promises; God’s aims and intentions for human beings do not change” [135-36].  But how does that square with Psalm 102:27 and Hebrews 13:8 as well as Colossians 1:15-17 and Hebrews 1:3 (and others noted below)?</p>
<p>In the introductory chapter it is stated that the Evans/Davis jointly authored closing essay “attempts to draw together some of the main strands made by the proponents of kenotic Christology today” as a challenge to “traditional theories” [24] with the concluding essay itself asserting that only a “full-fledged” kenosis provides “the best hope of an account of the Incarnation that is genuinely orthodox and yet does complete justice to the biblical portraits of Jesus” [321].   While no specific theory is proffered in the final essay, the authors do claim that Jesus Christ “lived his life in complete and continuous dependence on the Holy Spirit” which, while one could potentially argue that this view is not out of the bounds of Chalcedon, runs contrary to the Biblical witness [cf. John 5:21-25 (Christ acting divinely of and by Himself while incarnate by giving eternal life to whom He chose); John 2:19/10:17-18].  This dependence on the Holy Spirit infers at minimum a functionalist kenosis, but an ontological kenosis can be derived from this as well.</p>
<p>In his own essay, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Stephen_Evans">Evans</a> promotes an ontological kenosis such that the claim is that if God is omnipotent then to be so necessarily means He should be able to forego His omnipotence.  Thinking this through, Evans rightly claims, “If he has given up omnipotence, he cannot use omnipotence to get it back” [213].  Excellent point.  Evans, however, explains, “That is why the glorification of the Son is described by Scripture as accomplished by the power of the Father” [213].  While I don’t believe this can be backed up Biblically, there are other problems with this view.  Both John 2:19 and 10:17-18 indicate that Jesus was in fact omnipotent as He raised Himself on the Third Day.  [In fact, the entire Trinity was involved in the Resurrection as other Scripture attests.] </p>
<p>Asserting that a kenotic theory should adhere to Chalcedon, Ronald J. Feenstra begins his essay with a brief Christological history starting with the events leading up to and the making of the Chalcedonian Creed.   He then proceeds to propound an ontological kenosis by distinguishing between ‘essential’ and ‘accidental’ attributes of divinity similar to Thomasius’ “immanent” and “relative” attributes.  However, in Davis’ view God is, for example, “omnipotent-unless-freely-and-temporarily-choosing-to-be-otherwise” borrowing this idea from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_V._Morris">Thomas V. Morris</a> [152]. </p>
<p>In favor of the orthodox view and specifically critical of the unorthodox theories, <a href="http://www.pts.edu/vandriele">Edwin Chr. van Driel</a>&#8216;s essay notes the “polemic twist” of the unorthodox kenosis proponents.  While classical theologians see the Incarnation as an addition (of a human nature/body), the ontological or functionalist kenotic sees it as a divestment or necessary self-limitation of certain divine attributes instead.  Adopting a metaphor borrowed from <a href="http://philosophy.unc.edu/people/faculty/marilyn-adams">Marilyn McCord Adams</a>, van Driel calls the divine nature of the Word a “power pack” with the human nature acquired at the Incarnation an additional “power pack”.  Thus, the incarnate Christ had two complete “power packs” in one person.  Van Driel believes a satisfying kenotically orthodox account can be found in Chalcedon keeping in mind <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Council_of_Constantinople">Constantinople III</a> (AD681) which further specifies a two-willed (and, van Driel construes, a two-minded) Incarnation.     </p>
<p>Similarly, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Coakley">Sarah Coakley</a> asks if modern kenosis “rests on a mistake” and looks at patristic exegesis (Cyril, Nestorius, Gregory of Nyssa) of the Philippians hymn/poem as a way to show possibilities existing in the <a href="http://carm.org/communicatio-idiomatum"><em>communicatio idiomatum</em></a> to arrive at a coherent Chalcedonian, Biblically orthodox Incarnation as opposed to an ontological or functionalist interpretation.  Disappointingly, Coakley stops short of fully codifying a theory concluding her essay with an admonition to “re-embrace alternative readings of kenosis that take the communicatio tradition seriously, along with its understanding of the radical difference of status of the ‘divine’ and the ‘human’” [264].  (Oliver Crisp, in his book <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Divinity </span></em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">and<em> Humanity</em></span> [Cambridge, 2007; {<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A25ISPT6D3KF72/ref=cm_pdp_rev_title_3?ie=UTF8&amp;sort_by=MostRecentReview#RZEKPXOJF4CW1">see my review</a>}], uses a similar methodology promoting a fully formed theory which he terms “divine krypsis”. He defines it as not being kenotic (though one could argue, ‘quasi-kenotic’) in the manner of Evans, Davis, et al since the Logos is not limited in any way.  This works in virtue of the perichoretic relationship of the divine nature to the human in hypostatic union while restricting any transference of essences or properties to either nature.)  </p>
<p>While I will agree with the following statement in the Davis/Evans jointly-authored final essay, “Christology is THE Christian doctrine” [313], I do not agree with their kenotic conclusions on this all-important subject.  In fairness, however, the authors state just before their concluding remarks: “We believe that the challenge of kenotic theory will be helpful even to those who eventually reject a full kenotic theory.  For a kenotic account will stimulate those who reject it to think more deeply about the meaning of the Incarnation and do more justice to the full humanity of Jesus” [321].  I don’t disagree as there are those who lean more towards divinizing Jesus’ humanity.  One must keep both the human and the divine natures in proper balance/tension.</p>
<p>This book mostly fails to fulfill its billing as from the back cover: “It is an attempt to make sense of the traditional [i.e., Chalcedonian; pp 1-2] Christian claim that Jesus of Nazareth was both human and divine by developing the idea that to become human God the Son temporarily emptied himself of some of his divine attributes.”  The reason it falls short is two-fold: 1) the essayists promoting a literal self-emptying fail to take into account the whole of Scripture [primarily Colossians 1:17/ Hebrews 1:3, John 2:19/10:17-18 &amp; John 5:21-25] from which Chalcedon is drawn; and, 2) those who promote (or seem to promote) an historically orthodox view (that Jesus did not literally empty Himself of some of His divine attributes) are in opposition to the back cover’s claim.  And, frustratingly, neither camp fully explicates a viable theory though some (Coakley, van Driel) come closer than others.  But this in no way renders the work fatally flawed; rather, this illustrates that whoever wrote the back cover commentary was either ill-informed of its contents or did not think through a proper synopsis.</p>
<p>A minor criticism: the book does not segregate those preferring (or seeming to prefer) a historically orthodox position from those who favor modern kenosis which can be confusing as one reads along. </p>
<p>All in all, the book is thought provoking both for those of orthodox persuasion and those favoring the more unorthodox kenotic views and is therefore well worth the read for either camp in investigating opposing views.  Be forewarned, unless one is well-versed in Christological issues and somewhat aware of the various kenotic theories, this book will be a challenging read (as it was for me) and likely a difficult read in spots.  Yet, it is this reader/reviewer’s contention that this volume deserves a close study as a way toward a (re)consideration of one’s own position on “THE Christian doctrine”.  Proper Christology is indeed central to the Christian faith.  Distortions can lead to heresy and faulty Christology has negative implications on the Trinity and the Atonement.  Full adherence to Chalcedon is imperative keeping in mind the full counsel of Scripture from which the Creed was codified.   </p>
<p>Three (maybe 3.5) out of five stars overall for inducing further reflection on this subject.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/book-review/'>Book Review</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/christology/'>Christology</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/kenosis/'>Kenosis</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bruce-fisk/'>Bruce Fisk</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/c-stephen-evans/'>C. Stephen Evans</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/chalcedonian-creed/'>Chalcedonian Creed</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/cornelius-plantinga-jr/'>Cornelius Plantinga Jr.</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/edward-t-oakes/'>Edward T. Oakes</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/edwin-chr-van-driel/'>Edwin Chr. van Driel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/functional-kenosis/'>functional kenosis</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/gordon-fee/'>Gordon Fee</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/oliver-crisp/'>Oliver Crisp</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ontological-kenosis/'>ontological kenosis</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ronald-j-feenstra/'>Ronald J. Feenstra</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ruth-groenhout/'>Ruth Groenhout</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/sarah-coakley/'>Sarah Coakley</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/stephen-t-davis/'>Stephen T. Davis</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/thomas-r-thompson/'>Thomas R. Thompson</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/5183/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=5183&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/book-review-exploring-kenotic-christology-by-c-stephen-evans-ed/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>3</slash:comments>
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41L7HQI9NJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Exploring Kenotic Christology: The Self-Emptying of God</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Greater Works Shall You Do</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/greater-works-shall-you-do/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/greater-works-shall-you-do/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 06:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bethel Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Johnson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kenosis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Latter Rain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manifest Sons of God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Apostolic Reformation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Scripture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teacher]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs and wonders]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=4216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. -The Gospel of John 14:12, NKJV What are these “greater works” which those who believe in Jesus Christ will do?  What [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=4216&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p align="center"><em>Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.</em></p>
<p align="right">-The Gospel of John 14:12, NKJV</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What are these “greater works” which those who believe in Jesus Christ will do?  What can be greater than calming the wind and the waves of a raging storm by rebuking [Mark 4:35-41; Matt 8:18, 23-27; Luke 8:22-25]?  Halting a hurricane perhaps?  Or, how does one do greater than raising Lazarus from the dead after four days [John 11:38-44]?  Raising the dead after five days? Six days?  Thirty days?  A year?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.denverseminary.edu/craig-blombergs-blog-new-testament-musings/">Craig Blomberg</a> notes Jesus’ emphatic “double-‘Amen’” [“Verily, Verily” in the KJV or “Truly, truly” in the NASB, rendered “Most assuredly” above, which literally translates as “Amen, amen”] yet, “it is not likely that the later church would invent a saying ascribed to Jesus susceptible to the interpretation that the disciples were greater than their master.”<sup>1</sup>  So, what does this verse mean?  What are these “greater works” we will do?</p>
<p>Bill Johnson, Senior Pastor of <a href="http://www.ibethel.org/">Bethel Church</a> in Redding, CA, teaches that Jesus is referring to greater signs and wonders.  This is based, in part, on Johnson’s claim that Jesus Christ performed the miraculous merely as “a man in right relationship to God…not as God”<sup>2</sup> who was “completely dependent on the power of the Holy Spirit working through Him”<sup>3</sup> because He had “laid his divinity aside”<sup>4</sup> in His “self-imposed restriction to live as a man”<sup>5</sup> therefore possessing “NO supernatural capabilities whatsoever”.<sup>6</sup>  In Johnson’s theology, if Jesus Christ could do all He did as a Spirit-moved man, then Holy Spirit indwelt Christians should be able to exceed the greatness, the quality, of Jesus’ miracle workings:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Jesus’ prophecy of us doing greater works than He did has stirred the Church to look for some abstract meaning to this very simple statement.  Many theologians seek to honor the works of Jesus as unattainable, which is religion, fathered by unbelief.  It does not impress God to ignore what He promised under the guise of honoring the work of Jesus on the earth.  Jesus’ statement is not that hard to understand.  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Greater</span> means ‘greater.’  <strong>And, the <span style="text-decoration:underline;">works</span> He referred to are signs and wonders.  It will not be a disservice to Him to have a generation obey Him, and go beyond His own <span style="text-decoration:underline;">high-water mark</span>.  He showed us what one person could do who has the Spirit without measure.</strong>  What could millions do?  That was His point, and it became His prophecy.</em></p>
<p><em>This verse is often explained away by saying it refers to <span style="text-decoration:underline;">quantity</span> of works, not <span style="text-decoration:underline;">quality</span>.  As you can see, millions of people should be able to surpass the sheer number of works that Jesus did simply because we are so many.  But that waters down the intent of His statement.  The word greater is <span style="text-decoration:underline;">mizon</span> in the Greek.  It is found 45 times in the New Testament.  It is always used to describe ‘quality,’ not quantity.</em><sup>7</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Johnson is correct in that the Greek word <em>meizon</em> (not <em>mizon</em>)<sup>8</sup> refers to greater in quality rather than quantity.  But are the ‘greater works’ referring to “signs and wonders” as in calming storms and raising the dead?  <a href="http://www.wheaton.edu/Academics/Faculty/B/Gary-Burge">Gary Burge</a> asserts, “The promise can hardly mean that the efforts of disciples will exceed those of Jesus who, for instance, provided the stupendous miracle of raising Lazarus from the dead.”<sup>9</sup>  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_J._K%C3%B6stenberger">Andreas Kostenberger</a> reflects:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Do greater things than Jesus did?  This claim seems daring.  <strong>The difficulty evaporates when one realizes that these ‘greater works’ are still works of Jesus, now carried out from his exalted position with the Father through his commissioned, faithful followers</strong>.   Because Jesus is now with the Father, we can expect to do greater works than even Jesus did: on the basis of his once-for-all death on the cross, and in answer to believing prayer for all that is necessary to accomplish the mission Jesus never relinquished.</em><sup>10</sup></p></blockquote>
<h4><strong>“Because I Go to My Father”</strong></h4>
<p><a href="https://wipfandstock.com/author/25804">J. Louis Martyn</a> refers to the “highly paradoxical”<sup>11</sup> nature of this verse.  However, the key to interpreting and understanding this verse, as in any Scripture, is to keep it in its proper context as “he clearly says in the promise that all this will take place because he is <em>going to the Father</em>.”<sup>12</sup>  What occurs after His Ascension?  Two things: 1) Jesus is now at the right hand of the Father providing intercession for us as our Mediator through prayers in His name; and, 2) after Pentecost, all true Christians are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  For more complete context, here are verses 12 through 17a in the NIV (1984):</p>
<blockquote><p><em>12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.  <strong>He will do even greater things than these because I am going to the Father</strong>. 13And I will do whatever you <strong>ask in my name</strong>, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything <strong>in my name</strong> and I will do it.</em></p>
<p><em>15If you love me, you will <strong>obey what I command</strong>. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you <strong>another Counselor</strong> to be with you forever &#8212; 17the Spirit of truth. </em>[NIV 1984]</p></blockquote>
<p>Kostenberger: “For once Jesus is exalted in his Father’s presence, believers will be able to pray to the Father <em>in Jesus’ name</em>, and Jesus himself will answer these prayers.”<sup>13</sup>  Burge states, “What is ‘greater’ is that these works will be done by regular people in whom the power of Christ has taken up residence following his glorification.”<sup>14</sup>  However, Kostenberger adds, “understanding the impact of Jesus’ words to his original audience requires historical imagination.  For what was a novel vision for Jesus’ first followers has become an everyday reality for us today: to be indwelt by the Spirit and to pray – in Jesus’ name”.<sup>15</sup>  (Kostenberger also clarifies, “Praying in Jesus’ name does not involve magical incantation but rather expresses alignment of one’s desires and purposes with God [1 John 5:14-15]”,<sup>16</sup> i.e. obedience to the written Word [v 15].) While both of these should remain awe-inspiring to the child of God, these privileges are, shamefully, very easy to take for granted.</p>
<h4><strong>Partnering with God Rather Than Exceeding His Greatness</strong></h4>
<p>Martyn sees in John 14:12 a continuation of partnering with Jesus which Jesus Himself had told His disciples back in John 9:4 (and first mentioned in 3:11): “<em>We</em> must work the works of him who sent <em>me</em> as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work” [NASB].<sup>17</sup>  This will progress until the culmination of all things:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>The work of Jesus appears not to be terminated in the time of his earthly life.  On the contrary, his going to the Father inaugurates a time in which his followers do his works.  Indeed, 9:4a leads us to see this continuation of Jesus’ works <strong>as an activity of the Risen Lord in the deeds of Christian witnesses</strong>.</em><sup>18</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>After Jesus’ glorification, the Father sent “another Counselor” [Helper, Advocate, Comforter], another <em>parakletos </em>(Paraclete) [v 15], the “Spirit of truth” [v 17; 15:26; 16:13].  This other Paraclete is invisible to the world as the world does not know Him [14:17].  Yet, He will teach believers all things [14:26].  He will bear witness to Jesus [15:26]; He will glorify Jesus [16:14] not speaking of His own authority, only what He hears [16:13].  He will judge the world and convict of sin [16:8-11].<sup>19</sup></p>
<p>Observing some obvious parallels between Jesus and the Paraclete (<em>parakletos</em>), Martyn illustrates how the Gospel writer compares these to believers.  <em>As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world</em> [17:18 (NIV) compared to Jesus in 8:42 and the Holy Spirit in 15:26/14:26, also 12:49/14:24 and 16:13].  <em>The reason that the world does not know us [believers] is that it did not know him</em> [1 John 3:1 (NIV), also John 17:25, compared to 8:19/17:25 and 14:17].  <em>And you [believers] will bear witness also… </em>[15:27 (NASB) compared to 8:14 and 15:26].  Noting the current application of the narrative of John 9, Martyn states of 9:39, “Jesus [in the person of the Christian Witness] said, ‘<strong><em>For judgment I came into the world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind</em></strong>’” [compared to 3:18-19 and 16:13].  And, lastly, Martyn sees Jesus’ work extending into the present through believers specifically in the “greater works” verse: <strong><em>Truly, truly I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do, because I go to the Father</em></strong><em> </em>[14:12 (NASB) compared to 14:25 and 14:26/16:13].<sup>20</sup></p>
<p>So, while Jesus literally healed the blind man by giving him the eyesight he never had [9:1-11], there is also a figurative/spiritual application in this teaching narrative as spiritual sight in contrast to spiritual blindness [9:35-41].  Jesus tells the unbelieving [‘<em>This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath</em>’ – 9:16 NIV] Pharisees, “<em>If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains</em>” [9:41 NIV].  These Pharisees were now guilty because they remained in their sins despite seeing the Son of God:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>39And Jesus said, ‘For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see; and those who see may become blind.’ </em>[John 9:39 NASB]</p></blockquote>
<p>Yet the man formerly blind from birth passed from eternal death to eternal life as he gained his spiritual sight [9:38-39] – something much more important than merely receiving physical sight!</p>
<p>As J. Louis Martyn rephrases, “this [healing story in which Jesus performs the works of God] is not terminated in Jesus’ earthly lifetime…but rather…the Risen Lord continues his earthly ministry in the work of his servant, the Christian preacher…”<sup>21</sup>  This is the privilege of all children of God as we preach the true Gospel – that we are hopeless sinners in need of a Savior who has already paid the price for our sin debt – the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth [14:17; 15:26; 16:13] works through us, His children, convicting of sin [16:8-11] leading to repentance.  While there will be those in the world who wish to hold on to their sin and thus hate God and His disciples [15:18-25], it is still our distinct privilege to preach the Gospel to the lost.</p>
<p>To reiterate, the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own, only what He hears [16:13], which means He does not glorify Himself or even bring any attention to Himself whatsoever as He will bear witness to and glorify Jesus Christ [15:26; 16:14] instead.  And by extension, we, as Holy Spirit indwelt Christians, do the same: we do not glorify or magnify ourselves but rather we bear witness [15:27] to and glorify Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior by the power of the Spirit working through us.</p>
<h4><strong>Eternal Life – The Greatest of Miracles</strong></h4>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._F._Bruce">F. F. Bruce</a> finds precedence of the “greater works” motif of John 14:12 in 5:20:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>When, after the healing at the pool of Bethesda, Jesus affirmed that the works he did were those which the Father showed him, he added, ‘he will show him greater works than these, to give you cause for marvel’ (John 5:20).  Now [in 14:12] he tells his disciples that they in turn would do the works that he did.  That must have been surprising enough.  But what were they to think when he went on to say that, because he was going to the Father, they would do even greater works than they had seen him do?</em><sup>22</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Likewise, so does <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._A._Carson">D. A. Carson</a> see 5:20’s “greater works” in 14:12.  As per Kostenberger’s <em>BECNT</em> commentary, “[Carson] correctly locates the clues to a proper understanding of 14:12 in the parallel in 5:20 and in the final clause ‘because I am going to the Father,’ and points to the disciples’ greater understanding after the resurrection in the ‘new eschatological age that will have dawned.’”<sup>23</sup>  For a better understanding of how 5:20 relates to 14:12 we need to take a closer look at the pool of Bethesda. </p>
<p>The pool of Bethesda is the place where individuals of various afflictions would congregate waiting for someone to stir the pool assuming this stirring would provide curative powers in its waters [5:7].  Jesus met the paralytic man waiting beside the pool, told him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk” [5:8], and the man was cured, picked up his mat and walked away [5:9].  Since this miracle was performed on the Sabbath [5:9], the Jews informed the now healed man that it was unlawful to work (carry his mat) on the Sabbath [5:10] according to their extra-biblical oral tradition. Jesus later found the former paralytic and said, “See, you are well again.  Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you” [5:14].  This prefigures the healing of the blind man [9:1-7] who subsequently received his spiritual sight [9:39] by believing Jesus to be the Son of Man [9:35; cf. Daniel 7:13], the Messiah (Anointed One) [Daniel 9:26].</p>
<p>The Jews were angry that Jesus not only healed on the Sabbath, but that He instructed the man to ‘sin’ by ‘working’ on the Sabbath [5:16].   Once Jesus equated Himself with God as God’s Son working on the Sabbath along with His Father [5:17], the Jews desired all the more to kill him [5:18].  Jesus responds by reiterating His relationship with the Father as both His Son [5:19] and His equal [5:20-21], and, further, by claiming that Jesus Himself will judge rather than the Father [5:22; cf. 14:6 – “I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me.”].  Blomberg expounds, “Verses 21-22 refer to two major ‘works’ that Jews recognized God continued to perform on the Sabbath – giving life (as children were born) and exercising judgment (as people died).”<sup>24</sup></p>
<blockquote><p><em>20 For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and <strong>greater works</strong> than these will He show Him, that you may marvel.</em><br />
<em>21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even <strong>so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes</strong>.</em><br />
<em>22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but <strong>He has given all judgment to the Son</strong>,</em><br />
<em>23 in order that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father.  He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.</em><br />
<em>24 Truly, truly, I say to you, <strong>he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has</strong> <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">eternal life</span></strong>, and does not come into judgment, but has <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">passed out of death into life</span></strong>.</em><br />
<em>25 Truly, Truly I say to you, <strong>an hour is coming and now is,</strong> <strong>when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear shall live</strong>.</em><br />
<em>26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;</em><br />
<em>27 and He gave Him authority <strong>to execute judgment</strong>, because He is the Son of Man. </em>[NASB; emphasis added]</p></blockquote>
<p>The “greater works” [5:20] referred to in this passage – greater than healing a paralytic on the Sabbath – is the fact that Jesus “gives life to whom He wishes” [5:21], which means providing “eternal life” [5:24] in the then present [5:25] continuing till the eschaton (end of all things).  In addition, Jesus has been given authority to judge all [5:22] in the then present [5:24] and at the eschaton [5:27-29].  He provides eternal life to those who honor Him [5:23a] while judging those who refuse [5:23b].  The thief on the Cross is an example of how Jesus ‘gave life to whom He wished’ [Luke 23:43] during His earthly ministry.  After witnessing the blind man who could subsequently see, the Pharisees met Jesus’ judgment [9:39-41] for their unbelief in Jesus as the Christ/Messiah.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.asburyseminary.edu/faculty/dr-craig-s-keener">Craig Keener</a> also recognizes the “parallel language” of 14:12 and 5:20 [and 1:50].<sup>25</sup>   He comments, “The claim that God delegates the judgment to Jesus would have unnerved his opponents.”<sup>26</sup>  <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/drckeener/home">Keener</a> adds</p>
<blockquote><p><em><strong>Like the Father, Jesus could give life (5:21; cf. 17:2); this made him <span style="text-decoration:underline;">act in a divine manner</span></strong>.  <strong>The resurrection of the dead was <span style="text-decoration:underline;">a divine work</span>, specifically attributed to God…<span style="text-decoration:underline;">God was widely viewed as the giver of life</span>, hence the only one who life was not contingent  on a giver of life</strong>…In the context, the healing of the man at the pool of Bethesda prefigures in a small way the resurrection; Jesus will raise the dead, just as he told the lame man to ‘rise’…<strong>That he gives life to ‘whomever he wills’ (5:21)</strong> <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">reinforces the image of divinity</span> in this Gospel; God made alive (cf. 6:57, 63) and drew to life those whom he willed (6:37, 44, 65; cf. 3:8)</strong>.</em></p>
<p><strong><em>The discourse reports a number of <span style="text-decoration:underline;">divine activities the Father has ‘given’ the Son</span>: judgment (5:22, 27), life in himself (5:26), and divine works (5:36; cf. 5:20)…</em></strong><sup>27</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>For those who insist, like Bill Johnson, that Jesus performed all His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit, the above Scripture [5:20-27 and the others Keener cites] irrefutably proves otherwise.  To assert the Holy Spirit was the vehicle used in Jesus’ ‘giving life to whom He wishes’ and ‘executing judgment’ is to defy logic.  How could Jesus ‘give life to whom <strong><em>He</em></strong> wishes’ (and its converse – executing judgment) if He was dependent upon the Holy Spirit instead?  Or, did Jesus <em>command</em> the Holy Spirit to give life to whom He willed?  Of course not.    </p>
<p>Furthermore, if we were to assume (incorrectly, of course) that Jesus relied on the Holy Spirit both to “give life” [5:21, 24-25] and “execute judgment” [5:22, 24, 27], then Holy Spirit indwelt Christians should be able to ‘give life to whom <strong><em>we</em></strong> choose’ and judge those whom <strong><em>we </em></strong>wish to judge.  Of course we can neither grant eternal life/judgment to anyone in and of ourselves nor can we command the Holy Spirit to do so [however, Christians do have a role in judgment after the eschaton, cf. Matthew 19:28; 1 Corinthians 6:2-3].  Instead, we play an integral role in effecting eternal life (or judgment) as the privileged vehicle through which the Holy Spirit works in and through as we preach the true Gospel and as we humbly pray for others in Jesus’ name.</p>
<p><strong><em>The greatest miracle of all is the changed hearts of individuals as they transition from eternal death to eternal life by the acceptance of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ: by believing and confessing that Christ died on the Cross in propitiation for the collective sins of mankind, was raised from the dead, and by acknowledging individual inherent sinfulness and subsequently repenting, one is spared God’s eternal wrath passing from death to everlasting life.</em></strong></p>
<p>Nineteenth century expositor J. C. Ryle puts it succinctly:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>In short, ‘greater works’ mean more conversions.  There is no greater work possible than the conversion of a soul.</em><sup>28</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Keener, commenting on 14:12, asserts “The promise of ‘greater works’ calls John’s audience to look not only backward [to 5:20] but also to the present, where Christ continues to remain active through his presence by the Paraclete and his proclaimed word.”<sup>29</sup>  The “greater works” then refers to Christians, mere mortals, whom the Holy Spirit works in and through to effect salvation to those who believe in the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and are saved in contrast to exacting judgment on those who refuse Him and His sacrifice.  This is “greater” than Jesus who did these things as God – not a Spirit-moved man – during His earthly ministry.</p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Arial;">see also:<br />
<a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/kenosis-christology-and-bill-johnson-part-i/">Kenosis, Christology and Bill Johnson, part I</a><br />
<a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/kenosis-christology-and-bill-johnson-part-ii/">Kenosis, Christology and Bill Johnson, part II</a><br />
<a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/kris-vallotton-and-the-%e2%80%9cmantle-of-jesus-christ%e2%80%9d-bill-johnson-on-corporate-anointing/">Kris Vallotton and the Mantle of Jesus Christ/Bill Johnson on Corporate Anointing</a></span></span></p>
<p>Endnotes:</p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>1</sup> Blomberg, Craig. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Historical Reliability of John’s Gospel</span></em>. 2001, InterVarsity Press, Downers Grove, IL; p 199<br />
<sup>2</sup> Johnson, Bill. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">When Heaven Invades Earth: A Practical Guide to a Life of Miracles</span></em>. 2003, Treasure House/Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA; p 29.  Ellipse in original.<br />
<sup>3</sup> Johnson; p 29<br />
<sup>4</sup> Johnson; p 79.  In original text a footnote follows this phrase referring to Philippians 2:5-7, a proof-text used for those propounding the unorthodox/heterodox kenosis doctrine.<br />
<sup>5</sup> Johnson; p 29<br />
<sup>6</sup> Johnson; p 29<br />
<sup>7</sup> Johnson; p 185.  Underscore from emphasis (italics) in original; bolding added for emphasis.<br />
<sup>8</sup> Strong, James; J. R. Kohlenberger, III and J. A. Swanson, eds. <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The <em>Strongest Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible</em></span>. 2001, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI; pp 440, 1514.  <em>Meizon</em> is Strong’s # 3187.<br />
<sup>9</sup> Burge, Gary M. <em>“John’s Gospel” </em>in Evans, Craig A., ed. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Bible Knowledge Background Commentary</span></em>.  2005, Victor/Cook Communications Ministries, Colorado Springs, CO; p 127<br />
<sup>10</sup> Kostenberger, Andreas J. “<em>John</em>” in Arnold, Clinton E., gen. ed. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary</span></em>. 2002, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI; p 139.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>11</sup> Martyn, J. Louis <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">History and Theology in the Fourth Gospel</span></em>. 2003 (3<sup>rd</sup> ed. rev. (1968)), Westminster John Knox, Louisville, KY; p 135<br />
<sup>12</sup> Martyn; p 136.  Italics in original.<br />
<sup>13</sup> Kostenberger, Andreas J. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Encountering John (Encountering Biblical Series)</span></em>. July 2009 (8<sup>th</sup> prtg (paperback), (1999)), Baker, Grand Rapids, MI; p 156.  Italics in original.<br />
<sup>14</sup> Burge; p 127<br />
<sup>15</sup> Kostenberger, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Encountering John</span></em>; p 156<br />
<sup>16</sup> Kostenberger, Andreas J. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">John: Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament</span></em>. July 2009 (4<sup>th</sup> prtg (2004)), Baker, Grand Rapids, MI; p 433-434<br />
<sup>17</sup> Martyn; p 38 including important footnote 20.  Pronoun emphasis in original: <em>We</em> (Jesus and His disciples and, by extension, all subsequent believers) are to partner with the Father (the one “who sent <em>me</em>”).  This was begun in 3:11: “I tell you the truth, <em>we</em> speak of what <em>we</em> know, and <em>we</em> testify to what <em>we</em> have seen, but still you people do not accept <em>our</em> testimony.” [NIV 1984]<br />
<sup>18</sup> Martyn; pp 38-39.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>19</sup> This section somewhat roughly follows the outline of Martyn; pp 137-138<br />
<sup>20</sup> This is adapted from a chart in and quoted from Martyn; pp 141-142.<br />
<sup>21</sup> Martyn; pp 39-40<br />
<sup>22</sup> Bruce, F. F. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Gospel &amp; Epistles of John</span></em>. 1983, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, MI; p 300.  Bruce notes in the Preface, “The biblical text which is printed at the head of each section of the exposition is my translation from the Greek of the Nestle-Aland edition of 1979.”  This explains why the translation of 5:20 is not exactly like any other.<br />
<sup>23</sup> Kostenberger, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">John: Baker Exegetical Commentary</span></em>; p 433 (footnote) citing Carson, D. A. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Gospel According to John: Pillar New Testament Commentary</span></em>. 1999, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, MI; pp 495-496<br />
<sup>24</sup> Blomberg; p 114<br />
<sup>25</sup> Keener, Craig S. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Gospel of John: A Commentary, Volume Two</span></em>. 2010 (1<sup>st</sup> softcover ed, (2003)), Hendrickson, Peabody, MA; p 947<br />
<sup>26</sup> Keener, Craig S. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Gospel of John: A Commentary, Volume One</span></em>. 2010 (1<sup>st</sup> softcover ed, (2003)), Hendrickson, Peabody, MA; p 651<br />
<sup>27</sup> Keener, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gospel of John: Vol. One</span></em>; pp 650-651.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>28</sup> Ryle, J. C. “<em>Expository Thoughts on the Gospels: John 13:1-21:25</em>” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Expository Thoughts on the Gospels, Volume Four (John 10:31-21:35)</span></em>. 2007 (1878), Baker, Grand Rapids, MI; p 67.  Originally part of a seven volume series with one each of Matthew and Mark, two of Luke (1-10 &amp; 11-24), and three of John (1-6:70; 7-12:50; 13:1-21:35) beginning in 1856 and completed in 1878.<br />
<sup>29</sup> Keener, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gospel of John: Vol. Two</span></em>; p 947</span></span></p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/christology/'>Christology</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/gospel/'>Gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/jesus-christ/'>Jesus Christ</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/kenosis/'>Kenosis</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/scripture/'>Scripture</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teacher/'>false teacher</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/kenosis/'>Kenosis</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/signs-and-wonders/'>signs and wonders</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/4216/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=4216&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/greater-works-shall-you-do/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>29</slash:comments>
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>In Exonerating Paul Cain, Is the ‘Aberrant Practices’ Document Invalidated?</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/in-exonerating-paul-cain-is-the-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-invalidated/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/in-exonerating-paul-cain-is-the-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-invalidated/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Association of Vineyard Churches]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bob Jones]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dominionism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ernie Gruen]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gnosticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holy Spirit]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IHOP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[International House of Prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jack Deere]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joel's Army]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Paul Jackson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Wimber]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kansas City Prophets]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Latter Rain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manifest Sons of God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mike Bickle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Age]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Apostolic Reformation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Breed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paul Cain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophet]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophetic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spiritual warfare]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[William Branham]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[anointing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[demons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[esoteric]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teacher]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heresy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Age Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[occult]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs and wonders]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=2101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[…[C]ertain accusations about Paul Cain proved to be entirely false, having been based on untruths that were later acknowledged as such.  Paul Cain met with the critic, as did John Wimber and others.  Though the critic was reluctant to concede the wrong of the report as a whole, he later wrote a letter conceding the [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=2101&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align:center;" align="center"><em>…[C]ertain accusations about Paul Cain proved to be entirely false, having been based on untruths that were later acknowledged as such.  Paul Cain met with the critic, as did John Wimber and others.  Though the critic was reluctant to concede the wrong of the report as a whole, he later wrote a letter conceding the godliness of Paul Cain and the reality of his exceptional gifting.</em></p>
<p style="text-align:right;"> - Dr. John White, foreword to David Pytches’ (revised) <em>Some Said it Thundered</em><sup>1</sup></p>
<p>The “critic” White refers to is obviously Ernie Gruen.  These are very strong words although White would later agree that his overall statement was “intemperate.”<sup>2</sup>   This will be addressed in more detail a bit later.  As stated in the <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/did-ernie-gruen-recant-his-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-regarding-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/">first part of this article</a>, the exoneration of Paul Cain by Gruen will be examined in full since this has been used by some to negate the entire Document.  Toward this end, we will explore Cain in some detail as well as some of his closest allies of this period including Mike Bickle (<a href="http://www.ihop.org/">International House of Prayer</a> – more commonly “IHOP”), John Wimber and Jack Deere.  And since there have been attempts at discrediting the Gruen analysis of the “drought prophecy,” this will be specifically discussed in detail in closing. </p>
<p>Here is the first page of the two page letter<sup>3</sup> (three including the ‘15 points/errors’ enclosure):</p>
<p><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-1525" title="gruen1" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/gruen13.jpg?w=630&#038;h=814" alt="" width="630" height="814" /></p>
<p>In effect, point 2 and its sub-points appear to completely contradict nearly the whole of section VI.H in the Gruen Document.<sup>4</sup> Let’s examine these points.</p>
<p>Point 2d indicates that Gruen and his staff relied on reports of William Branham’s sons regarding whether or not Cain ministered with the elder Branham.<sup>5</sup>  Branham’s sons claimed he did not.  It will be assumed that Cain and/or Wimber and his staff provided absolute proof to the contrary.<sup>6</sup>  However, this brings up an associated issue to be discussed later in this article.</p>
<p>In his August 1990 Special Report, Albert James Dager rightly questions Cain’s exoneration given that Cain has openly endorsed KCF/GM:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…[H]ow can Cain be exonerated of GM/KCF’s excessive errors when he has openly endorsed that ministry and appears on their platform?  One who endorses a work bears responsibility for that work and is identified with its fruit.</em><sup>7</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Part of Cain’s endorsement of GM/KCF included his explicit affirmations of Bob Jones as both a foretelling and forth-telling prophet during this time as the Gruen Document and other sources illustrate.<sup>8</sup>  So, why were limitations placed on Jones’ ministry as a result of the Vineyard assumption due to his aberrant teachings and practices while Cain continued to be embraced as a prophet?  In addition, wasn’t Cain guilty of point/error 9 in the ‘15 points’ referenced in the <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/did-ernie-gruen-recant-his-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-regarding-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/">first part of this article</a> (and enclosed with the July 1 letter) – “[p]ublic predictions of <strong><em>natural disasters</em></strong>, <strong><em>economic events</em></strong>, and divine visitations without the approval of government” – in his purported “earthquake prophecy” of December 1988?<sup>9</sup></p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>1</sup> White, John. “Foreword” in Pytches, David. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Some Said it Thundered</span></em>. 1991 (revised, “new edition”), Oliver Nelson, Nashville, TN; pp xxii-xxiii<br />
<sup>2</sup> Beverley, James A. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter &amp; the Toronto Blessing: An Investigative Report</span></em>. 1995, Zondervan Publishing, Grand Rapids, MI; p 126<br />
<sup>3</sup> Letter on file including attachment.<br />
<sup>4</sup> Gruen, Ernest J. &amp; John J. Arnold, et. al. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation of the Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries)</span>.</em> May 1990, self-published; pp 217-21. / pdf prepared for online posting by Tricia Tillin (Booth) &lt;<a href="http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/kcp/Abberent%20Practises.pdf">http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/kcp/Abberent%20Practises.pdf</a>&gt;; pp 123-25.  Hereafter listed as pdf first followed by original booklet; e.g.: pp 123-25 / 217-21<br />
<sup>5</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. pp 124 / 218-19<br />
<sup>6</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 131 and Jackson, Bill <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Quest for the Radical Middle: A History of the Vineyard</span></em>. 1999, Vineyard International Publishers, Ladysmith, Cape Town, South Africa; p 182.  Confusingly, at least one subsequent “Re-published” issue has different page numberings.  The 2<sup>nd</sup> issue was Re-published in 2000 as VIP, Cape Town with the same page numbering as the first edition; whereas, the 2010 “Re-published for Amazon” issue (VIP, Cape Town also) has different page numberings.  Herein and hereafter, all page numbers will reference the earlier edition followed by the later one, e.g.: p 182 / 175.  Neither Beverley nor Jackson provides any specific proof.  Is there perhaps an exchange between Cain and Branham recorded or an extant photo which would prove unequivocally?<br />
<sup>7</sup> Dager, Albert James “Latter-Day Prophets: The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets and the Kansas City-Vineyard Connection”<em> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Media Spotlight</span></em>. Special Report, August 1990, Media Spotlight, Redmond, WA; pp 6.  Report undated, however verified by Dager.<br />
<sup>8</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 131.  Notes Beverley, “Cain’s explicit blessing of Bob Jones was a major error…After Jones was disciplined for…sexual misconduct…I was told that Cain never trusted Jones in the first place.”  If he didn’t trust him from the beginning, why would he endorse him so enthusiastically in the first place?  Beverley, however, was apparently ill-informed of some of Cain’s doctrines namely Joel’s Army and Manifested Sons of God [see below in this article “Paul Cain Did Not Teach Manifested Sons Doctrine?”] proclaiming he had “no problem affirming that Cain is orthodox in his basic theology” while acknowledging Cain (and Bob Jones) did teach Joel’s Army [p 123].  The Joel’s Army doctrine as taught by Cain (and Jones) is contrary to basic Christian orthodoxy.<br />
<sup>9</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. pp 179-80 / 172-73.  “Earthquake prophecy” discussed in some detail including discrepancies in its reporting.</span></span></p>
<h4><strong>Paul Cain Prophesies Earthquakes?</strong></h4>
<p>It’s imperative to understand the significance accorded Paul Cain.  To this day, Mike Bickle refers to Cain as one of his “spiritual fathers.”<sup>10</sup>  Jack Deere was so taken with Cain that he insisted John Wimber meet with him.  As James A. Beverley states, “From 1988 to 1991, there was no doubt Paul Cain had ‘superstar’ status in the Vineyard.”<sup>11</sup> Cain had been established as the primary prophetic voice at Shiloh Ministries which, as noted in the <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/did-ernie-gruen-recant-his-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-regarding-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/">first part of this article</a>, was largely funded by Vineyard Ministries International [see second paragraph under May 12 in the timeline]:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Grace</em><em> Ministries team leaders have recognized Paul [Cain] as having the senior prophetic authority over Shiloh and those in prophetic ministry who are based there.</em><sup>12</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Wimber even claimed at one point that he was “bonded to Paul Cain for life.”<sup>13</sup>  One of the reasons for his high stature as a “prophet” was the “earthquake prophecy” which was said to have validated Paul Cain’s message to Wimber and Vineyard: “God has a strategic purpose in this for Paul and the Vineyard Movement.”<sup>14</sup> </p>
<p>The “earthquake prophecy” came in two parts: there was to be an earthquake in southern California on the day Cain would arrive – December 3, 1990 – and there was to be a big one in another part of the world <strong><em>on the day after</em></strong> Cain was to leave.  Paul Cain left Anaheim Vineyard on December 7; so, this would place the second predicted earthquake on December 8.  Mike Bickle, in his book <em>Growing in the Prophetic</em>, recounts:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…A week or two before Paul’s scheduled arrival, Dr. Jack Deere, who was at that time an associate pastor with John Wimber in Anaheim, asked Paul if God would grant a prophetic sign to confirm His message for John Wimber and the several hundred Vineyard churches under John’s leadership.</em></p>
<p><em>Paul answered, “The day I arrive, there will be an earthquake in your area.”  That, however, is not an astounding prediction for southern California.</em></p>
<p><em>Jack asked, “Will this be the big one we’ve all been hearing about?”</em></p>
<p><em>“No,” Paul answered, “but there will be a big earthquake elsewhere in the world <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">on the day after I leave</span></strong>.” </em><sup>15</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>This “prophecy” was also recounted in Wimber’s <em>Equipping the Saints</em> (<em>ETS</em>) magazine specifying Cain’s face-to-face visit with Wimber occurred on the 5<sup>th</sup> of December.<sup>16</sup>  There was indeed an earthquake on December 3<sup>rd</sup> in Pasadena.<sup>17</sup>  However, John Wimber had later questioned himself as to whether this “prophecy” was actually predicted. Bill Jackson, in <em>The Quest for the Radical Middle</em>, relates:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>While Wimber wrote the account as coming before the fact, he later doubted his memory when he re-examined the prophetic.  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">He would later wonder privately if it hadn’t really come after the fact</span>.  <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">This is a very important distinction to make because the fact was used to validate Paul Cain’s message to the Vineyard</span></strong>.  In a phone conversation, Deere recounted to me in vivid detail the facts surrounding the prophecy, verifying that it did come before the earthquake.</em><sup>18</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>As stated above, part of this “prophecy” was Cain’s purported prediction that there would be a second “big” earthquake in another part of the world “<strong><em>on the day after he left</em></strong>” Anaheim Vineyard.<sup>19</sup>  Yet Wimber, in recounting the Deere/Cain conversation in the <em>ETS</em> Fall 1990 article, records the earthquake was to be, quoting Cain, “<strong><em>after I leave</em></strong>” which is less explicit on the timing.<sup>20</sup></p>
<p>On the evening of Cain’s departure, December 7, 1988 – which, of course, is <span style="text-decoration:underline;">not</span> <strong><em>the day after</em></strong> – there was a catastrophic earthquake in Soviet-Armenia. Deere would later apologize for being unclear in how he stated this “prophecy” initially:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…When Jack Deere realized the error he said he remembered that Paul had not said “<strong>the day after I leave</strong>” but “<strong>after I leave</strong>,” thus leaving the timing ambiguous.  He apologized for the misquote.  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">It was these kinds of disclaimers that raised the ire of many toward the prophetic because it seemed like backpedaling</span>.</em><sup>21</sup></p></blockquote>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>10</sup> Bickle, Mike, International House of Prayer <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Encountering Jesus</span></em>.  “IHOP MP3 stores: Free MP3s”  &lt;<a href="http://www.ihopmp3store.com/Groups/1000021591/IHOP_MP3_Downloads/Free_MP3s/Free_MP3s.aspx">http://www.ihopmp3store.com/Groups/1000021591/IHOP_MP3_Downloads/Free_MP3s/Free_MP3s.aspx</a>&gt; Disc 1 &lt;<a href="http://ihopcontent.ihop.org/ihopcntnt/endis/FreeMP3s/Encountering_Jesus_D1.mp3">http://ihopcontent.ihop.org/ihopcntnt/endis/FreeMP3s/Encountering_Jesus_D1.mp3</a>&gt; 18:45 &#8211; 19:35.  Bickle also refers to Bob Jones as his other ‘spiritual father.’  As accessed 10/09/11<br />
<sup>11</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 130<br />
<sup>12</sup> Lambert, Steve “Shiloh: A Prophetic Sanctuary” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Grace City Report</span></em>. Special Edition, Fall 1989; p 11 as cited in Dager, Albert James “Latter-Day Prophets: The Kansas City Connection”<em> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Media Spotlight</span></em>. Special Report, April 23, 1990, Media Spotlight, Redmond, WA; p 4.  Also in Dager <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance is Ours: The Church in Dominion</span></em>. July 1990, Sword Publishers, Redmond, WA; p 129 and Dager “Latter Day Prophets: The Restoration”; p 5.<br />
<sup>13</sup> Hill, Clifford “Kansas City Prophets” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Prophecy Today</span></em>. July/August 1990, Vol 6 No 4; p 6<br />
<sup>14</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. p 179 / 172<br />
<sup>15</sup> Bickle, Michael, M. Sullivant, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Growing in the Prophetic</span></em>. 1996 (5<sup>th</sup> printing Feb ’98), Creation House, Oakland, FL; p 39.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>16</sup> Wimber “Introducing Prophetic Ministry” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Equipping the Saints</span></em>. Fall 1990, Special UK Edition; pp 4-5<br />
<sup>17</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. pp 179-80 / 172-73.  Jackson erroneously records the date of the Pasadena earthquake as December 5 as it was instead on the 3<sup>rd</sup>.   December 5 was the day Cain purportedly met with Wimber which is likely the source of the error.<br />
<sup>18</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. pp 179, 189 / 172, 181.  Wimber “wondered privately” in a conversation with Todd Hunter.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>19</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. p 179 / 172.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>20</sup> Wimber, “Introducing Prophetic”; p 5.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>21</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. pp 189 / 181-82.  Recounted to Jackson in phone conversation on April 2, 1999.  Emphasis added.</span></span></p>
<h4><strong>Open Vision of Jack Deere’s Mother and Related Prophecy</strong></h4>
<p>Point 2b is problematic.  Here’s the account as recorded in the Gruen Document:</p>
<blockquote><p><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Paul Cain claims a person’s dead mother appeared to him and talked with him.</span></em></p>
<p><em></em><em>Three people testified that during a conference in Kansas City in April of 1989, Paul Cain called a man out of the congregation and said, “Your brother is okay – your <span style="text-decoration:underline;">dead mother appeared to me</span> and said he is in heaven with her.” </em><sup>22</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>The concession states that it wasn’t necromancy since the woman who appeared to Cain in this open vision was a living person.  This account is detailed in the following from an audio tape of that evening:</p>
<span style='text-align:left;display:block;'><p><object type='application/x-shockwave-flash' data='http://s0.wp.com/wp-content/plugins/audio-player/player.swf' width='290' height='24' id='audioplayer1'><param name='movie' value='http://s0.wp.com/wp-content/plugins/audio-player/player.swf' /><param name='FlashVars' value='&amp;bg=0xf8f8f8&amp;leftbg=0xeeeeee&amp;lefticon=0x666666&amp;rightbg=0xcccccc&amp;rightbghover=0x999999&amp;righticon=0x666666&amp;righticonhover=0xffffff&amp;text=0x666666&amp;slider=0x666666&amp;track=0xFFFFFF&amp;border=0x666666&amp;loader=0x9FFFB8&amp;soundFile=http%3A%2F%2Fnotunlikelee.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F10%2Fcains-vision-of-deeres-mother.mp3' /><param name='quality' value='high' /><param name='menu' value='false' /><param name='bgcolor' value='#FFFFFF' /><param name='wmode' value='opaque' /></object></p></span>
<p>The portion below pertaining to the account in the Gruen Document is bolded; the rest is shown to provide the broader context.  With the benefit of time and a later restatement of this particular account by Jack Deere, this can be analyzed in detail:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Last time the Lord gave me anything like this – and this is the burden of the Lord, Mike, I tell ya.  It’s a burden of the Lord because I don’t wanna do it, I don’t wanna do this… I never will forget the reproach that came upon me…and because of the ignorance of… the people, they thought I was talking to the dead.  Listen, talking to the dead is nothing new; I talk to the dead every time I get up in a place like this.  It’s people walking over dead people that are far more dead than the dead people in the ground. </em></p>
<p><em>We misunderstood a lot of things.  We take one little isolated Scripture out here that ‘the dead know nothing at all’ and think we’ve got the interpretation of that – if anybody sees someone face to face with the Lord that they’re talkin’ to the dead.  That’s the craziest thing I ever heard of.  Somebody saw Moses; somebody saw Elijah.  Uh, I know Moses died.  And, uh, somebody saw him, didn’t they?</em></p>
<p><em>…If one of your loved ones was with the Lord; and, you hadn’t had any peace about this, and the Lord just sent a little love note to you tonight, wanting you to have inner peace and happiness, wanting you to be strengthened to serve Him, <strong>He might just tell you He was face to face with him</strong>, do you believe that?  He just might do that.</em></p>
<p><em>And, Jack…I want you to stand up; It’s gonna hit you with brute force tonight.  <strong>Your mother came to me in an open vision this afternoon.  Her name is Wanda; second name initial J. – Right?  W. J., Wanda, and then she looks like somebody I know named Jean, so, that must be her middle name.  And she’s talking about losing a jewel and that jewel was lost.  And she feels a lot of guilt, and a lot of responsibility there. And you don’t know it, but the Lord said, “Cliff is in heaven.” And Cliff, uh – JEWEL – it’s Jewel Clifford, he is in heaven tonight because God saw something in the insanity that came upon him that was demonic</strong>.   And God, who is a God of perfect justice and perfect equality, said that He took one item from your dad as He did from Abraham and accounted it for righteousness sake.  And he did call on Him, and your father, Jewel, as, uh, Joel and Malachi in that day when the Lord makes up his Jewels [ed: Joels?].</em><sup>23</sup><em></em></p></blockquote>
<p>It’s not difficult to understand those in the audience being a bit confused about the details as Cain spoke this rather fast and it IS difficult to figure out the exact relationship each has with the others (except Jack with respect to his mother, of course) confounded even more by the fact that “Jewel” sounds a lot like “Joel.”  Furthermore, it’s not difficult to understand confusion as to who was alive or dead with Cain’s long introduction about “talking to the dead.”  However, yes, the woman here, Jack Deere’s mother, apparently was alive at this time.</p>
<p>To try to put this in perspective by restating: In an open vision that afternoon Cain saw Deere’s mother who was “talking about a jewel.”  Subsequent to this or within this same vision, Cain is claiming he received a “prophetic word” about Deere’s deceased father, Jewel Clifford, with the Lord saying, “Cliff is in heaven.”</p>
<p>Jack Deere recalls this himself in his book <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=rwz_RmVQBsIC&amp;pg=PA176&amp;dq=jack+deere+wanda+jean&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=8J-cTuumK4e1sQLm_NjrCQ&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false"><em>Surprised by the Voice of God</em></a>.<sup>24</sup>  Tragically, his father had committed suicide when he was just twelve years old and Deere went back and forth in his mind varying between believing his father was in heaven and believing his father was in hell after weighing positive and negative evidence respectively.<sup>25</sup></p>
<blockquote><p><em>…Then he looked directly at me and said, “Jack, would you stand up please.”</em></p>
<p><em>As I rose to my feet, Paul said, “I had a vision of your mother this afternoon.  Her name is Wanda Jean.  I saw her standing on a cliff looking for her missing jewel.  That must mean your father’s name is Jewel Clifford.  Then I saw your father.   When I saw him, he was in heaven, face-to-face with the Lord Jesus.  The Lord showed me that sometime before your father had died, like Abraham, he believed in the Lord, and the Lord counted it to him for righteousness.”</em></p>
<p><em>I was absolutely stunned.  No one knew my mother’s real name.  She hated the name Wanda.  She would only use the name Jean.  It was one of our best kept family secrets.  Likewise, my dad never went by the name Jewel Clifford.  Everyone called him Jack.  I had never told Paul that my parents’ names were Jean and Jack, let alone that their birth names were Wanda Jean and Jewel Clifford.  I knew the only way he could have gotten those names was by supernatural revelation from the Lord.</em><sup>26</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Obviously, Deere was paraphrasing Cain’s words and with the passage of time slight variances may be understandable.  However, note that Cain never said anything about Deere’s mother “standing on a cliff looking for her missing  jewel” (although that is a great metaphor) but instead Cain records Wanda Jean as saying “<em>she’s talking about losing a jewel and that jewel was lost.</em>” Cain never does equate “Clifford” with a “cliff” as in ‘a hill with a steep face’ although he does refer to Deere’s father as “Cliff.”</p>
<p>Contrary to Deere’s definitive statement above, it is plausible that Paul Cain obtained his parents’ names by other means, even other supernatural means.  This would not be the only time a Paul Cain “prophecy” was declared to be obtainable only from the Lord when that was not necessarily the case.<sup>27</sup></p>
<p>In his book, Deere relates that the very next day after Cain delivers this “word” to him, Deere takes Cain to the pastor’s luncheon and he asks Paul why the Lord would choose to reveal this to him now as he had “put the whole subject out of his mind”:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>As far as I knew, it didn’t trouble me any longer.  I wanted to know if the Lord had shown Paul why he had given me this revelation.</em><sup>28</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Deere goes on state that the Lord had revealed to Paul Cain that there was a root of bitterness “over the possibility that he [Deere’s father] might spend eternity in hell.”  Deere claims that in retrospect the “word” had helped significantly in softening his heart.<sup>29</sup>  However, that evening, the very next night after Cain’s initial “prophecy,” Paul Cain expounds on the “prophetic word” he had provided the night before which conflicts with Deere’s account:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>There was a revelation that <strong>changed a man’s life</strong> last night.  Did you know this former Dallas Theological Seminary professor that was ministered to last night? What you didn’t know was <strong>the demons of hell came and they said, “We have your father.  And, we’re gonna take you, we will take you to your father</strong>.” And then the Heavenly Father last night through His omniscience began to reveal, “No, your father, your father Jewel Clifford <strong>he is with the Lord – face to face with the Lord</strong>.”  That was a transforming act of God; that was the mercy of God.  I got to deliver it with the jealousy of God and that <strong>changed Jack Deere’s life</strong>…</em><sup>30</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Deere’s book mentions nothing about being approached by demons claiming his father was in hell; in fact, Deere claims he felt the whole matter was no longer forefront on his mind during that time.  According to Deere, Cain’s words to him on the way to lunch were, “Paul told me that after I had become a Christian, the question of my father’s eternal destiny troubled me more than I realized.”<sup>31</sup>  That’s a far cry from, “the demons of hell came and they said ‘we have your father…and…we will take you to your father’” which would obviously be <strong><em>very</em></strong> troubling and it would be doubtful that this would have been put out of Deere’s mind.</p>
<p>As a contrast, it’s interesting to note that after initially ‘misquoting’ the timing of Cain’s “earthquake prophecy,” Deere later would recall “in vivid detail” the facts concerning that particular “prophecy” yet in a very personal “prophecy” – one that “changed a man’s life” – he adds the detail about his mother “standing on a cliff looking for her missing jewel” and either doesn’t remember or chooses for some reason not to disclose the fact that demons appeared to him telling him his father was in hell.  In fact, the latter appears to conflict with his statement that he would go back and forth in believing his father was either in heaven or in hell.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t it seem more likely that a personal prophecy would be more ingrained in an individual’s memory than another one which is not so distinctly personal?  This is even more curious in view of the fact that the ‘earthquake prophecy’ was purportedly spoken circa late November 1988 with Deere recollecting this in an April 1999 conversation with Bill Jackson<sup>32</sup> – a full 10 years later – as compared to the fact that the ‘prophecy’ concerning Deere’s father was spoken in April of 1989 with Deere recounting this in his book published in 1996.<sup>33</sup></p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>22</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 124 / 220.  Emphasis in original.<br />
<sup>23</sup> Cain, Paul “Who Will Ascend the Lord’s Hill?” cassette tape [PC05-002] <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Jealousy of God</span></em>. 3-tape set in clamshell, undated, MorningStar Ministries, Charlotte, NC; tape 2, side 2.  While there’s no date listed, internal evidence points to it being at Kansas City Fellowship in April of 1989 since: 1) the venue is made obvious in various places in the recordings contained in this set; 2) Cain mentions things to occur in the ‘90s and some things to occur before the end of ’89; 3) Cain mentions “demonic killings in Mexico” he had just read about in the newspaper which is very likely the Matamoros ritual killings which made headlines in April of 1989; 4) an eyewitness recalls being there during this timeframe; and, 5) the details of this open vision seem to match up with the account spoken of in the Gruen Document [item VI.H.5] as corrected in the July 1, 1990 letter which is dated April 1989.  Taking all this into consideration, this tape set is most likely from April 1989, and unless anyone can produce proof to the contrary, this will be assumed to be the account referenced in the Gruen Document.  In a 1995 MorningStar Ministries catalog this set is listed as a 4-tape set including “Consumed by His Jealousy” as the fourth tape [PC05-004].<br />
<sup>24</sup> Deere, Jack <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by the Voice of God</span></em>. 1996, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI; 176.  Deere mistakenly mentions this as occurring at Metro Vineyard Christian Fellowship instead of KCF – that is, unless this “prophecy” was later recycled.<br />
<sup>25</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by Voice</span></em>. p 177<br />
<sup>26</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by Voice</span></em>. p 176<br />
<sup>27</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; pp 132-33<br />
<sup>28</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by Voice</span></em>. p 177<br />
<sup>29</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by Voice</span></em>. p 177<br />
<sup>30</sup> Cain, Paul “Recapturing the Jealousy of God” cassette tape [PC05-003], <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Jealousy of God</span></em>. 3-tape set in clamshell, undated, MorningStar Ministries, Charlotte, NC; tape 3, side 1.  Undated but as noted above from 1989 and very likely April 1989.<br />
<sup>31</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by Voice</span></em>. p 177<br />
<sup>32</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. p 189 / 181.  The “circa late November 1988” timing of Cain’s purported stating of the “earthquake prophecy” was gleaned from Bickle’s statement that this was “a week or two before” Cain’s arrival at Anaheim Vineyard in <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Growing in the Prophetic</span></em>. p 39<br />
<sup>33</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by Voice</span></em>. pp 176-177</span></span></p>
<h4><strong>Paul Cain a True Prophet?</strong></h4>
<p>Paul Cain was said to provide remarkable words of knowledge.  Jack Deere’s book <em>Surprised by the Voice of God</em> is dedicated to Cain describing him as a “true prophet.”<sup>34</sup>   In a chapter detailing how to properly facilitate prophecy, Deere mentions that prophetic words should always be given with humility.  He states, “The most skillful prophetic people I know avoid phrases like ‘Thus says the Lord…’” as this implies “a very high level of clarity and authority…that God is not giving to very many people today.”<sup>35</sup>  Yet, in another audio from 1989 at Kansas City Fellowship, Cain quips that he trades “words” with Bob Jones and John Paul Jackson each one prefaced with “thus saith the Lord”:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…I tell ya, I had a vision – I can’t get around John Paul without havin’ a vision – <strong>you know prophets when they get around each other they, if they don’t have anyone else to work on, they just work on each other.  I mean they just say, “<span style="text-decoration:underline;">thus saith the Lord</span>” and then they’ll turn around and say, “<span style="text-decoration:underline;">thus saith the Lord to YOU!</span>” </strong>[audience laughter<strong>]  and, then I’ll turn around and say, “<span style="text-decoration:underline;">thus saith the Lord to YOU buddy!</span>” </strong>– and so on.<strong>  </strong>Ya know it’s a really exciting thing.<strong>  But every time I get around Bob he has a word from the Lord for me; and, I’m very humble – I don’t usually come back right away</strong>.  <strong>But I go home and the Lord gives me some stuff that almost makes me explode, and I’m just BUSTIN’ to give you this</strong>.  But <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">John, I know this is irreverent</span></strong>…</em><sup>36</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>This is <strong><em>indeed</em></strong> irreverent, <strong><em>very</em></strong> much so, and obviously this lacks humility as well.  We have to ask ourselves if a Holy God would take part in this sort of irreverent silliness.  Perhaps Cain, Jones and Jackson feel they had “a very high level of clarity and authority” and thus could “prophecy” using the words “thus saith the Lord” at will.  Maybe Cain was just joking around, but this is no laughing matter. </p>
<p>Take note that both Jones and Jackson would be limited in their ministries once Wimber/Vineyard took the reins of KCF in May of 1990.  John Wimber was in the audience that day as this transcript makes clear; so, why did Wimber continue to promote and laud Cain as a prophet afterward while Jones and Jackson were restrained?  This is especially important as Wimber claimed that Mike Bickle had asked him about KCF becoming a Vineyard as early as May of 1989 as he “was looking for pastoral accountability and a larger movement for KCF’s covering.”  Wimber also states, “Mike regularly communicated with me during this time, and looked to me for pastoral care and direction.”<sup>37</sup> </p>
<p>In his book <em>What Happened to the Fire?</em>, J. Lee Grady makes observations about Cain after attending a conference in San Antonio in December of 1989.<sup>38</sup>  In a chapter titled “Fabricating the Anointing,” Grady records Cain as calling out ‘words’ to attendees such as “first names, cities, street numbers.”  However, Grady notes that those called were mostly staff of the ministries who put on the conference (he knew some of these people personally) and that the information used to call these individuals out was accessible to Cain beforehand.  Grady remarks that it was likely most attendees were astonished by what appeared to be “the remarkable demonstration of the word of knowledge”:<sup>39</sup></p>
<blockquote><p><em>…It seemed Cain had literally “read these people’s mail” by recounting <strong>personal information he could not have known about total strangers</strong>.  But I found myself struggling with what happened that night…</em></p>
<p><em>…[I]t disturbed me that almost everyone who received these prophetic directives was part of the full-time staff of ministry sponsoring the conference.  It also seemed puzzling that <strong>all the information Cain ostensibly received from God was printed in a staff address directory that I knew was easily accessible to conference speakers</strong>.  <strong>Surely Paul Cain would not have studied that list prior to the meeting, then “recalled” the names and numbers to make us think he had revelatory powers!</strong>&#8230;</em><sup>40</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Later on, Grady would interview Cain who stressed “no one has ever proved that he obtains information from any source other than God.”  Grady also followed up on some “prophecies” given and discovered that, of the ones he checked, most of these predictions not only did not come to pass, some had actually proved to be quite the contrary.  When asked for an explanation as to why these prophecies had not been fulfilled, Cain dodged the questions, but “through a friend, denied any wrongdoing.”<sup>41</sup></p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>34</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by Voice</span></em>.  Dedication on unnumbered page preceding table of contents.  David Pytches describes Cain as one who “would certainly fall into the category of a present-day prophet.” [<em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Some Said it Thundered</span></em>. 1990 (first edition, second impression), Hodder &amp; Stoughton, London, UK; p 16; also in Pytches’ 1991 “new edition”; p 17].<br />
<sup>35</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Surprised by Voice</span></em>. p 193<br />
<sup>36</sup> Cain, Paul <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joel’s Army</span></em>. digitized audio from cassette tape, 1989, GraceMinistries, Grandview, MO; near beginning of side 2 at 39:08 – 39:45.  Cain would go on claiming he had a “word from the Lord” for John Wimber.<br />
<sup>37</sup> Wimber “A Response to Pastor Ernie Gruen’s Controversy with Kansas City Fellowship” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Equipping the Saints</span></em>. Fall 1990, Special UK Edition; p 3.  Also, it should be noted that Wimber referred to Cain as a prophet given his words regarding Cain and the New Breed teaching, “…it’s been prophesied by Paul Cain, and I think it’s a very important concept” in an undated tape circa 1989 or early 1990 [“Unpacking Your Bags” tape, undated, as sourced in Dager’s April 23, 1990 Special Report; p 12].<br />
<sup>38</sup> Grady, J. Lee <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">What Happened to the Fire?</span></em>. 1994, Chosen Books – a division of Baker, Grand Rapids, MI; p 113<br />
<sup>39</sup> Grady, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">What Happened</span></em>, p 115<br />
<sup>40</sup> Grady, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">What Happened</span></em>, p 115.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>41</sup> Grady, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">What Happened</span></em>, p 116</span></span></p>
<h4><strong>Cain Absolved of Occultism?</strong></h4>
<p>One could argue that seeing a dead person – Jewel Clifford, Deere’s father – purportedly face-to-face with Jesus in heaven could be considered of the occult. Furthermore, it could be construed that the vision of Deere’s mother in which she was “<em>talking about losing a jewel and that jewel was lost</em>” is occultic since it involved verbal communication.  Note that the July 1 letter states that it was discovered “on careful review” that this account was not necromancy which is presumably in the narrow sense of ‘communication with the dead’ rather than the broader meaning of ‘black magic’ in general.  However, also note that Gruen specifically stated that the concessions were made on “points that could be disputed and argued about.”</p>
<p>Cain’s admitted association with and promotion of William Branham as “the greatest prophet that ever lived” raises an associated question as there are those who believe Branham was an agent of the occult.  Kurt Koch relates that Branham was limited in his healing: “if my angel does not give the sign, I cannot heal.”<sup>42</sup>  The following, in his book <em>Occult A-B-C</em>, provides more indication of occultism:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Another evidence [of spiritistic (occult) healing] is the fact that…Branham [was unable] to perform cures when faced with born-again Christians who had committed themselves to the protection of [Jesus] Christ…When he [Branham] spoke in Karlsruhe and Lausanne, there were several believers in the audience – including myself – who prayed along these lines: “Lord, if this man’s powers are from You, then bless and use him, but if the healing gifts are not from You, then hinder him.”  The result?  On both occasions Branham said from the platform, “There are disturbing powers here, I can do nothing.” </em><sup>43</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>This is not unlike an account as related by Constance Cumbey regarding New Ager Benjamin Crème in an incident after he spoke at a gathering.  Following Cumbey’s praying aloud of the “Lord’s Prayer” while the other attendees were praying The Great Invocation – essentially a prayer to the New Age Christ, or antichrist – the expected “overshadowing” by ‘Maitreya the Christ’ did not manifest itself in Crème and he dismissed the crowd with, “That will be all.”<sup>44</sup></p>
<p>While the following may or may not be related to the above, it is certainly of interest.  Recall in the first part of this article that in March of 1990 Wimber, Deere and Cain were met with open opposition during a conference in Sydney, Australia.  Jack Deere recounts a portion of this in his book <em>The Gift of Prophecy</em>.<sup>45</sup> On the second night of the conference, Cain was apparently distracted and had a difficult time teaching.  Nevertheless, both the audience and Deere were anticipating a Paul Cain prophecy session after the teaching was over.  However, Cain “simply walked off the stage” instead.<sup>46</sup>  </p>
<p>The next day when Deere inquired about this, Cain replied, “The price I pay for my gift is living with the disappointment of people and enduring the embarrassment of being deserted by the anointing.”<sup>47</sup>  [see “The ‘Christ Anointing’” section of <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/christ-in-the-new-age/">“Christ" in the New Age</a> article for more on “the anointing.”]  Is it possible that the Vineyard/Wimber/Deere/Cain opponents in Sydney did something similar to what Koch and his associates or Cumbey had done thereby causing this particular episode of “embarrassment?”</p>
<p>In the following, from the same evening as the “prophecy” for Deere, Paul Cain reminisces about his first meeting in which he spoke at an A/G church near Dallas and recalls how he understood the background of someone in the audience:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>I looked over and I saw a lady – and <strong>I’m not going to tell you how I see these things because right away you would say “oh, that’s the occult</strong>” – I just wanna make one thing very clear: the <strong>New Agers and the occult</strong>, I’d like for you to know that <strong>they got all this stuff from God in the first place</strong>.  And the devil’s had it so long we think it belongs to him; <strong>I think it’s time we take it all back</strong>.  Because God is the God of Light, He’s the God of the amber light and the glory…</em></p>
<p><em>Anyway, <strong>I saw this light over her and the vision came to pass</strong>. I said, “Lady sitting back here in the green and white polka dot dress, you’re from San Antone [sic], Texas and you’re cripple [sic].  Get up and run to that aisle immediately…” </em><sup>48</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Cain goes on claiming this lady, who “came in a wheelchair” although he “didn’t realize this at first,” ran “up and down the aisles” being completely healed.  Continuing, Cain follows with another account in which he claims “<strong>the angel of the Lord</strong>” told him she had colitis.<sup>49</sup>  Is this angel similar to Branham’s healing angel, like the one Todd Bentley claimed in Lakeland in 2008?  If so, is it possible that in the Sydney “embarrassment” the angel “did not give the sign” as would happen to Branham?</p>
<p>The transcript in VI.H.3 of the Gruen Document, “Smelling demons”,<sup>50</sup> certainly displays the hallmarks of occultism:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>When I was a young man and first <span style="text-decoration:underline;">received the anointing</span>, I could smell a cancer; I could smell a demon; I could smell different types of sin.  They all had a stench; they all had a different smell; they were identifying themselves.  You could smell infidelity and adultery…</em><sup>51</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>This is transcribed from the “7 Spirits of God” tape which was one of those deleted in June 1990 [see previous post].  As of yet, this audio has not been recovered; so, this transcript cannot be either affirmed or denounced.</p>
<p>Perhaps a more clear case of occultism is found in the following.  From the same evening Cain relates that Jack Deere was approached by demons who were trying to take Deere to visit his father in hell, Cain recounts how “the Lord” hit him on the chest:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>&#8230;I told you the story when the Lord came to me one night I went to bed meditating on something that Augustine [ed: likely Augustine Acolla (also spelled Alcala)] said.  He said, “Man was made to find his home in God and man can’t rest until he finds his home in God.” – or something like that.  And I went to sleep meditating on that one night and I woke – well, <strong>I’m not even gonna tell you this ‘cause you wouldn’t believe it anyway, just leave me asleep if you want to.  Call it a dream.  Call it anything; but, I tell ya I call it ‘scary.’</strong> <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Lord took his two fingers and began to punch me in the chest</span></strong>…” </em><sup>52</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Now THAT must’ve left a bruise!  Dager notes “other phenomena akin to occult spiritual activity” have been observed while Cain ministered.<sup>53</sup>  It has been reported that one night in 1988 at Olathe Worship Center, a part of KCF, Cain caused a surge of electricity short-circuiting circuits resulting in the fire alarm system activating.  Purportedly, unbeknownst to the KCF congregation, the local fire station was dispatched and the firemen were surprised there wasn’t a fire.<sup>54</sup> A similar thing was claimed to have happened when Cain was speaking at the Spiritual Warfare Conference at Anaheim Vineyard in February of 1989:<sup>55</sup></p>
<blockquote><p><em>On the first occasion in Anaheim, an expensive video camera was short circuited.  This was particularly unusual because the camera was battery powered.  It was not plugged into any outlet.</em></p>
<p><em>The following night, the telephone system was blown-out [sic].  This was notable because no one was on the phone at the time.</em><sup>56</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Apparently, on a subsequent night at the same conference, Cain himself speaks of these occasions.  From audio of this conference, one of “Stadium Visions” available on his own site, Cain relates</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…But, He’s gonna DO that and when He does you’re gonna have more than just <span style="text-decoration:underline;">a little omnipotent surge</span>.  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">You’re gonna have something MORE than something that’ll knock out the cameras and knock out the phone lines and knock out all the power lines and set off the fire alarms like it did in <strong>Kansas City</strong> or <strong>Olathe, Kansas</strong> and a little bit of that happened here</span> [in Anaheim, CA].  You’re gonna have something MORE than that…</em><sup>57</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Dager comments, “One must wonder if the Holy Spirit is a clumsy, out of control source of electrical energy.  Such happenings are not dissimilar to those that occur during UFO sightings or poltergeist activity…”<sup>58</sup></p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>42</sup> Koch, Kurt <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Occult A-B-C</span></em>. 1986 (second edition), Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids, MI; p 235<br />
<sup>43</sup> Koch, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Occult A-B-C</span></em>. p 235<br />
<sup>44</sup> Cumbey, Constance. video <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Discovering the New Age Movement</span></em>. 2006, Radio Liberty Conference hosted by Stanley Monteith &lt;<a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8937919448007045479">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8937919448007045479</a>&gt; starting at around 46:10.  Cumbey described this ‘non-event’ as the “spookiest thing of the evening.”  As accessed 10/15/11<br />
<sup>45</sup> Deere, Jack <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Gift of Prophecy</span></em>. 2001, Servant Publishers, Ann Arbor, MI; pp 72-74<br />
<sup>46</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gift of Prophecy</span></em>. pp 72-73<br />
<sup>47</sup> Deere, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gift of Prophecy</span></em>. pp 73-74<br />
<sup>48</sup> Cain, Paul “Trembling at His Word” cassette tape [PC05-001] <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Jealousy of God</span></em>. 3-tape set in clamshell, undated, MorningStar Ministries, Charlotte, NC; tape 1, side 2.  Undated but as noted above from 1989 and very likely April 1989.<br />
<sup>49</sup> Cain, Paul “Trembling at His Word” side 2<br />
<sup>50</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 124 / 219<br />
<sup>51</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 124 / 219<br />
<sup>52</sup> Cain “Recapturing the Jealousy of God” side 2<br />
<sup>53</sup> Dager, “Kansas City Connection” p 6 / Dager <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>. p 132 / Dager “The Restoration” p 7<br />
<sup>54</sup> Sullivant, Terri “Paul Cain’s Ministry: Recent Manifestations of the Holy Spirit” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Grace City Report</span></em>. Special Edition, Fall 1989; p 5 as cited in Dager “Kansas City Connection” p 6 / Dager <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>. p 132 / Dager “The Restoration” p 7<br />
<sup>55</sup> Sullivant, Terry “Paul Cain: Recent Manifestations” p 5 as cited in Dager “Kansas City Connection” p 6 / <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>. p 132 / Dager “The Restoration” p 7.  Dager records this conference as 1988 rather than 1989 (presumably receiving this from Sullivant) which seems to conflict with the overall chronology as Cain was not introduced to Wimber until December 5, 1988.  According to Jackson [<em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. pp 179 / 171-172], Bob Jones purportedly told Bickle that Wimber would call him “in early 1988” opening the door “for future ministry” with Wimber and Vineyard.  Purportedly, the call came “five days later” resulting in Wimber and Bickle ministering together in the UK in the fall of 1988.  With this in mind, it would seem unlikely that Cain was at an early 1988 conference at Anaheim Vineyard.  If this supposition is incorrect, the reader is asked to provide substantiation in order to correct this.<br />
<sup>56</sup> Sullivant, T. “Paul Cain: Recent Manifestations” p 5 as cited in Dager “Kansas City Connection” p 6 / Dager <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>. p 132 / Dager “The Restoration” p 7<br />
<sup>57</sup> Cain, Paul “Stadium Vision: Anaheim Vineyard” taken from February 1989 Spiritual Warfare Conference &lt;<a href="http://www.paulcain.org/sandbox/newsite/pages/Stadium%20vision/stadiumvision.html">http://www.paulcain.org/sandbox/newsite/pages/Stadium%20vision/stadiumvision.html</a>&gt; as accessed 10/15/11<br />
<sup>58</sup> Dager, “Kansas City Connection” p 6 / Dager <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>. p 133 / Dager “The Restoration” p 7</span></span></p>
<h4><strong>Paul Cain Did Not Teach Manifested Sons Doctrine?</strong></h4>
<p>The most confounding concession is point 2a which is the claim, “<em>He does not hold to the doctrine of Manifested Sons, but totally denies ever having believed in that teaching.</em>” The transcripts clearly indicate Cain <strong><em>was</em></strong> teaching the Manifested Sons of God (MSoG) heretical doctrine.  The MSoG heresy is such that certain individuals will receive their imperishable, resurrection bodies [see I Corinthians 15:50-54] while remaining here on earth in an invincible state attaining immortality with the ability to go through walls, etc.</p>
<p>Dager, in his August 1990 article, states flatly</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…[Gruen] is in error in saying that Cain does not hold to Manifest Sons of God doctrine; Cain’s teachings on Joel’s Army and on immortalization are purely Manifest Sons of God doctrine.”</em><sup>59</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>In Dager’s April 23<sup>rd</sup> article (and also in a chapter in his full-length book <em>Vengeance is Ours</em> as well as the follow up article in August), he provided his own proof that Cain taught MSoG by quoting from the KCF tape “A New Breed” – another one of the tapes on the June 1990 discontinued list [though, notably, <strong><em>not</em></strong> referenced at all in the Gruen Document] – which follows:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Now I know which is perfect is come [sic], that which is imperfect must be done away.  But anyone knows that which is perfect has come.  And we don’t have the full revelation – <strong>we haven’t grown up in the stature of Christ as we should</strong>.  <strong>And there is no manifestation on a wholesale basis of the sons of God</strong>.  <strong>And I’m not afraid to mention that even though I get shot down everywhere I go every time I mention the manifestation of the sons of God</strong>.  I’m not afraid to mention any biblical, scriptural terminology…</em><sup>60</sup></p>
<p><em>So my point is that <strong>there will be a manifestation of the sons and daughters of God</strong>.  And it won’t be this baloney that we’ve heard of in the past; I mean, there’s been a few people who tried to walk through a wall like this over there and knocked their brains loose, but that’s not what I’m talking about.  <strong>I’m talking about a true manifested son of God: if anyone walks through this wall over here, they’re not going to tell you about it – I mean, they’re just going to do it.  And sons of God don’t tell you they’re sons of God, they’ll just show you!</strong>  Amen!</em><sup>61</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Dager clearly illustrates that Cain taught MSoG; however, are the Gruen Document transcripts in error or fabricated?  We can safely say “No.”  Existing digitized audio of the “Joel’s Army” tape – yet another one of the tapes on the discontinued list [identified in the Gruen Document as “JAPC”] – prove that the transcripts faithfully represent Cain’s words although a small portion is apparently edited.<sup>62</sup>   However, this missing section does not affect proving unequivocally that the Gruen Document does in fact show that Paul Cain was teaching MSoG which, as noted, is heresy.   </p>
<p>“Joel’s Army” is another term for MSoG taken from a misapplication of Joel 2:1-11.  The fact that this “Joel’s Army” is the same as Manifested Sons of God in the Paul Cain vernacular is evidenced by Cain’s words as quoted in item VI.H.6: “…this army is also in the New Testament…” </p>
<p>Using the digitized audio of the “Joel’s Army” tape, we can put Cain’s words in the Gruen Document in chronological order (excluding the portion not on the audio in possession obviously).  Additional transcription from the audio providing more of the original context will be in plain text while portions from the transcripts of the Gruen Document will be<em> italicized</em>.  The Gruen Document transcriptions are <span style="text-decoration:underline;">underscored</span> as per the original, <strong>bolding</strong> is added for emphasis, and CAPS are used when Cain is emphatic.  Repeats and stammers are mostly edited out.</p>
<p>Cain begins by talking about a vision of Bob Jones’ in which “the wind and the fire” are present and the pages of a Bible are turning.  Notice that the portion from the Gruen Document (in italics, as stated) is claimed to be a direct quote from the Lord for Cain.  There’s a second one for John Paul Jackson:</p>
<blockquote><p>…And then…it stopped at St. John 15…He said that He’s the true vine and you’re the branches.  It seemed as though the Lord reiterated that to my heart again…He had already shown me that a dozen times before.  <strong>He said, “If you can get into this vine,</strong> <strong><em>if you’re really in the vine and you’re in the branch, then the life sap from the Son of the living God keeps you from cancer, keeps you from dying, keeps you from death</em></strong><em>, </em>keeps ya from so many things.”  And I said, “Yes Lord.” …And then it blew on over to St. John 16…it came alive…The Lord said, “That’s for John Paul.  And just tell him that my Word is coming alive…”<sup>63</sup>                                       </p></blockquote>
<p>This illustrates that Cain is espousing the idea that the Lord is giving “new revelation” to certain “prophets” for the Church.  So, how does one “really” get “into this vine?”  The answer is revealed by the next section in which the ellipse […] in the Gruen Document is filled in providing the full context of Cain’s words.  It all has to do with “intimacy”:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>So this is a billion soul crusade, Bob.  Your billion, your billion, my billion, and I want you to know that just fills me and thrills me and chills me, and Lord, please don’t let it kill me.  It’s just so good.  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">I’m going to live to see this</span>, friends, I really believe it.  If I can get through this message. </em> So, they shut the Apostles…up in prison, they killed James, they stoned Stephen, and finally martyred all the Apostles with the possible exception of John, Saint John the Divine<strong>. I don’t think they killed him ‘cause he leaned on Jesus’ bosom and he had the heartbeat of God</strong>.  God loved him so much.  <strong><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">If you have intimacy with God, they can’t kill you</span></em></strong><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">.  They just can’t.</span>  There’s something about [ya]; you’re connected to that vine; you’re just so close to him.  Oh, my friends, they can’t kill [ya].  God takes care of them.  He said, “I love them that love Me.”  Isn’t that wonderful? </em> So, I don’t think we have any record where they kill John…<strong>He may be the Enoch…as far as the martyrs are concerned</strong>.  I don’t believe that he was martyred…<sup>64</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>That’s an interesting thesis: on the basis of the fact that the Apostle John had leaned on Jesus’ bosom and because neither Scripture nor, presumably, any extant historical evidence records John’s death, Cain conjectures that John was taken up like Enoch never experiencing a physical death.  Consequently, if we were to have this same sort of intimacy with God we could not be killed.  This sort of “intimacy” then provides the means to attaining manifested sons of God status – truly perfected saints, the invincible Joel’s Army:</p>
<blockquote><p>…I saw that when they shut the Apostles up in prison; they killed all of them, and except maybe John.  Many spiritual saints were slain also because of their testimony throughout the past centuries.  <em>But this is what God showed me: <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">But this army is invincible</span></strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">.</span>  They are never put into prison; they are never delivered into the hands of their enemies</em>…They go behind iron bars and iron gates and Iron Curtain and they enter into windows like a THIEF.  Even those behind bars and in cells and in dungeons must hear the message that we preach and if it’s accepted they bring them out to freedom and to safety.  And nothing shall escape it.  <strong>WE have the authority then!</strong><sup>65</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>So, this “intimacy” not only provides invincibility to the members of this army; it provides full earthly authority!   However, this perfection may not come immediately:</p>
<blockquote><p>…<strong>But we may not reach that kind of perfection right away</strong>…But we can repent right clear down to the bottom; we’re gonna get to that kind of repentance.  And if we fail after repentance, we’re gonna repent again…<sup>66</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>According to Cain, God wants <strong><em>you</em></strong> to join Joel’s Army and enlistment will put both you and God “back on the map.”  Has God ever really been ‘off’ the map?</p>
<blockquote><p>…But nevertheless God’s gonna have a people that’s gonna put Him back on the map again.  Amen.  And He’s gonna put us on the map again, isn’t He.  Let’s make up our minds to this fact.  God’s going to – He’s not gonna make ya do it – but, I want you to know this army is going to be available to ya; if you want to enlist tonight…<sup>67</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>In the following, Cain makes it very clear that this perfected army is specified in the New Testament, not just the Old Testament.  Not only that – it’s for the final, special end time generation only.  And he identifies the generation he was speaking with at the time as that privileged generation of the end time.  Cain identifies this Joel’s Army as the <strong><em>man-child</em></strong>, the <strong><em>overcomers</em>,</strong> the <strong><em>144,000</em></strong> of Revelation 7, the <strong><em>bride of the Lamb</em></strong>, the <strong><em>manifested sons of God</em></strong>, and others:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>&#8230;<strong>This army is also in the New Testament.</strong>  It’s referred to as <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">the man child</span></strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">.</span> I know some of you’s gonna disagree with this; don’t you even stop to disagree. <strong>Revelation 12:25</strong> [sic], if you disagree, just file it in Miscellaneous and don’t bother with it. When we get to heaven we’ll check it out, and you’ll find out I’m right. <strong>Here it is&#8211;this great army in the New Testament <span style="text-decoration:underline;">is a</span></strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;"> <strong>man child</strong></span>, Revelation 12:5; <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">the overcomers</span></strong>, Revelation 2 and 3; <span style="text-decoration:underline;">the <strong>144,000 servants</strong></span>, Revelation 7:3; the <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">bride of the Lamb’s wife</span></strong> [sic]– <span style="text-decoration:underline;">see why they call me in on the carpet?</span> – the revelation of the Lamb’s wife, Revelation 19:7 and 21:9; and the <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">white horse</span></strong>. Revelation 6:2; the <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">first fruit</span></strong>. Revelation 14:4; the <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">precious fruit</span></strong>. James 5:7; the <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">wise virgins</span></strong>. Matthew 21:1 &#8211; 13 [sic]; <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">the manifested sons of God</span></strong>. Romans 8:19 &#8211; 23, and <strong>it’s certainly a remarkable fact that none of these names are expressions applied to the saints of God at any other time in history, but all of them are in their context and promises <span style="text-decoration:underline;">showing undeniably that they belong to the time of the end</span></strong>. The end time, let’s say the end time. <strong>They belong to the end time to this present generation</strong>, Matthew 24:34…</em>the Lord says, “today, today, today.”  And today harden not your hearts, but it applies to the end time,<em> this is the end time and God wants us to realize once and again, in closing, that there’s gonna be a great company of overcomers prepared for this mighty ministry which I call the prize of all ages.  </em>And again, <strong>God’s offering to the believers of</strong> <strong>this generation a greater privilege than was ever been offered to any people of any generation at any time from Adam clear down through the end of the millennium</strong>…<sup>68</sup> <em></em></p></blockquote>
<p>Note that Cain states “Revelation 12:25” which is an obvious error as the 12<sup>th</sup> chapter of Revelation ends with verse 17.  In his zeal, Cain misspoke as he meant “Revelation <strong><em>12:2-5</em></strong>” instead since these are the verses used to denote the “man-child” doctrine.  Also, he mistakenly says “bride of the Lamb’s wife” instead of “bride of the Lamb” and he quotes the wrong Scripture for “the wise virgins” which should be Matthew <strong><em>25:1-13</em></strong> instead of 21:1-13 in all his excitement.</p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>59</sup> Dager “The Restoration” p 16<br />
<sup>60</sup> Dager, “Kansas City Connection” p 9 / Dager <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>. p 144 / Dager “The Restoration” p 12<br />
<sup>61</sup> Dager, “Kansas City Connection” p 9 / Dager <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>. p 145 / Dager “The Restoration” p 12<br />
<sup>62</sup> Cain, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joel’s Army</span></em>. digitized audio from cassette tape; however, the tape is apparently edited.  Frustratingly, the extant audio is missing the latter portion of item VI.H.1(the portion after the first ellipse of the last paragraph) and all of item VI.H.4 in Gruen <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>; p 123-24, 124 / 218, 217.  However, the remaining audio is quite enough to illustrate that the Gruen Document transcripts faithfully represent the audio/tape.  It appears that the tape used for the Gruen transcription either had the sides reversed or the transcriber reversed the sides during transcription.  The transcripts from the Gruen Document are put into their original chronological order as this may provide a better understanding of Cain’s overall message.<br />
<sup>63</sup> Cain, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joel’s Army</span></em>; side 1 at 41:05 – 42:15.  The digitized audio records the tape abruptly ending with “this concludes side one; please turn the tape over” and then after a short duration, the audio resumes at the same place at which side one ended.  However, at 43:18 there is an obvious edit with Cain coming back in speaking on a totally different subject.  This is apparently the section which had been edited.  The quoted portion transcribed is from VI.H.1, third paragraph excepting the edited verbiage after the ellipse.  This picks up soon after the transcription at footnote 35 ends.<br />
<sup>64</sup> Cain, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joel’s Army</span></em>; side 2 at 53:21 – 54:39.  Includes VI.H.1, first paragraph.<br />
<sup>65</sup> Cain, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joel’s Army</span></em>. side 2 at 55:01 – 55:48.  Includes VI.H.1, second paragraph.<br />
<sup>66</sup> Cain, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joel’s Army</span></em>; side 2 at 1:03:19 – 1:03:37<br />
<sup>67</sup> Cain, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joel’s Army</span></em>; side 2 at 1:04:12 – 1:04:30<br />
<sup>68</sup> Cain, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joel’s Army</span></em>; side 2 at 1:05:37 – 1:07:26.  Includes all of VI.H.6</span></span></p>
<h4><strong>Assessing Gruen’s Concessions</strong></h4>
<p>Let’s recap Gruen’s concessions specifically related to Paul Cain.  As stated, “<em>Paul Cain did minister with William Branham</em>” [point 2d].  Assuming this is indeed true, it appears to be an honest mistake on Gruen’s part and a mistake which needed to be corrected. </p>
<p>While it is apparently true that the woman (Jack Deere’s mother) who appeared to Paul Cain in the open vision recorded in the Gruen Document was a living person [point 2b], it has been shown that this vision and the associated vision of Cain seeing Deere’s deceased father in heaven could be construed as of the occult.  In addition, Cain’s association with and promotion of William Branham, who apparently used occult powers being rendered powerless when Christians were praying, adds more credibility to the possibility of occultism [point 2c].  Moreover, as mentioned above, there are other accounts which suggest the possibility of occultic activity. </p>
<p>Gruen’s only specific mention of anything related to occultism was the claim of necromancy, i.e. communing with the dead, associated with the open vision in which, as noted, the woman was actually still living.  The “Smelling Demons” section may be considered a claim of occultism also which, as stated earlier, cannot be either affirmed or denounced since there’s no extant audio.  Yet witness Gruen’s words in the concession, “<em>We <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">know</span></strong> of no occultism connected with him or his ministry</em>.”  Gruen may have still suspected it yet felt like he could not make a strong enough case.  Let’s not overlook the words before the list of the three points, “<em>it is obvious there are points that could be disputed and argued about</em>.”</p>
<p>Using existing audio from the tape identified in the Gruen Document as “JAPC” (known as “Joel’s Army” and numbered among the tapes which were discontinued), it has been shown that the document faithfully represents these portions of the tape (to the extent of the audio recovered so far) thus proving that Cain <strong><em>did</em></strong> in fact teach the Manifested Sons of God heresy [point 2a].  Obviously if one teaches such a heresy this could call into question a proclamation of the individual being “a godly man and a man of integrity” as MSoG is not faithful to orthodox interpretations of Scripture and is blasphemous since it, in essence, equates man with God.  So, <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">why did Gruen concede these points?</span><em></em></strong></p>
<p>The way point 2a is worded may provide a clue: “<em>He does not hold to the doctrine of Manifested Sons, but totally denies ever having believed in that teaching</em>.”  This sentence is phrased rather peculiarly.  This appears to state that Cain does not <strong><em>currently</em></strong> hold to MSoG, <strong><em>formerly</em></strong> adhered to this teaching as the Gruen Document illustrates, yet nevertheless denies ever having believed in this doctrine perhaps keeping in mind the tapes which had recently (at the time) been discontinued.  Gruen’s statement would not necessarily contradict his preface, “<em>In my limited dealings with Paul Cain, I have found him to be a godly man and a man of integrity</em>.”  With this, Gruen could merely be admitting he’s had “limited dealings” with Cain and each time Cain was found to display integrity and godliness.  This discreet statement would not be inconsistent with the testimony of others.<sup>69</sup></p>
<p>Furthermore, note that the phrase “<em>We completely exonerate Paul Cain of any negative charges</em>” is specifically in conjunction with “<em>We know of no occultism connected with him or his ministry</em>” in sub-point ‘c’ rather than the preface which would have necessarily encompassed all the sub-points: &#8216;a&#8217; through ‘e’.  Does this mean Gruen only intended the “we completely exonerate…” phrase to be specifically in connection with occultism such that the “negative charges” only pertain to occultism?  As it’s written, it seems possible this phrase of exoneration does not apply to sub-points ‘a’, ‘b’, ‘d’ &amp; ‘e’.  It appears that each sub-point addresses one specific item namely: sub-point ‘a’ – Manifested Sons doctrine; ‘b’ – the alleged necromancy; ‘c’ – occultism; ‘d’ – Cain’s association with Branham; and, ‘e’ – a blanket apology.</p>
<p>However, we must concede the possibility that the list is placed in order with each sub-point necessarily following the other.  In this case sub-point ‘a’ addresses MSoG as per the explanation two paragraphs above; ‘b’ addresses the alleged necromancy; ‘c’ exonerates Cain of MSoG, necromancy, and occultism while specifying that occultism is not <strong><em>known</em></strong> to be associated with him; ‘d’ speaks of Cain’s connection to Branham; and ‘e’ is a blanket apology.</p>
<p>James A. Beverley scrutinized the Gruen Document after having read a “scathing review” of Gruen in Wimber’s own <em>Equipping the Saints</em> magazine titled “A Response to Pastor Ernie Gruen’s Controversy with Kansas City Fellowship” from fall of 1990.<sup>70</sup>  This review was written and published after Gruen’s concessions above and included those concessions in the body of the report.  Based on its contents, Beverley expected a poorly documented, biased work with texts being taken out of their context.  However, upon reading the Gruen Document and comparing with KCF material Beverley commented, “…Gruen had every right to warn the charismatic world.”<sup>71</sup></p>
<p>Beverley criticized Wimber’s article as “unbalanced and faulty.”  He recognized a number of specific points that the Gruen Document brought forth including “the ridiculous wholesale verdict that Pastor Gruen’s accusations are untrue;” that “it failed to give sufficient acknowledgement of the…elitist spirit evident in the material documented by Gruen;” and, that it failed to recognize “an eschatology far removed from exegesis and [that was] <strong>rooted instead in the</strong> <strong>subjective, mystical experiences of Bob Jones, John Paul Jackson, and Paul Cain.</strong>”<sup>72</sup> </p>
<p>In addition, Beverley states the <em>ETS</em> article was essentially Jack Deere’s report<sup>73</sup> although this, if indeed true, in no way absolves Wimber of full responsibility since it bears his name.  According to Beverley, John Wimber would later contact Gruen privately “to express his regret that their response to him was so careless and unbalanced.”<sup>74</sup> Vineyard, however, never did publicly apologize.<sup>75</sup>  Jackson states Deere “was openly sympathetic toward Bickle” and “a source close to Wimber later came to believe that the facts had been somewhat biased toward KCF…”<sup>76</sup>  As for Gruen, he “decided the Lord did not want him to reply” to this report.<sup>77</sup></p>
<p>While noting the biased nature of David Pytches’ book <em>Some Said it Thundered </em>describing it as  an “overly optimistic interpretation of KCF,”<sup>78</sup> Beverley relates White’s later agreement with Beverley’s charge of ‘intemperance’ regarding his foreword to Pytches’ book:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…Dr. White, in a spirit of graciousness, wrote me later and agreed that my verdict was correct.  My view was based on his harsh statements about Ernie Gruen and his uncritical acceptance of Vineyard’s written reply about Gruen.</em><sup>79</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>It’s a shame there isn’t a further revision to Pytches’ book including a more balanced Dr. White foreword.  Also note that contrary to a portion of White’s claim in the quote which begins this article, Gruen does not concede “the reality of [Cain’s] exceptional gifting” as Gruen makes no mention at all about Cain’s “gifting.” </p>
<p>Attempts have been made to discredit both the Gruen Document and Gruen himself over the years.  Wimber’s <em>Equipping The Saints </em>article, Pytches’ book, and Jackson’s work have been used in this endeavor.  Jackson mentions that it was “public knowledge” that Gruen “was in an immoral relationship at the time” but does not provide an adequate source for this statement.<sup>80</sup>  While it is true Gruen did begin divorce proceedings in May of 1993,<sup>81</sup> nearly three years <strong><em>after</em></strong> his promise to stop sending out the Gruen Document (his marriage was subsequently restored about 2 years later<sup>82</sup>), these rumors of immorality have not been substantiated. </p>
<p>In any event, whether Gruen was involved in immorality at the time or not, the Gruen Document stands or falls with respect to its veracity.  To the extent it can be proven true, it is true; to the extent it can be proven false, it is false.  Notwithstanding the concessions in the July 1, 1990 letter and taking into account the findings here regarding the charge of MSoG, there is no evidence we have found suggesting that any aspect of the Gruen Document is false.  (However, see below in “A Drought Evolves” section.)  In fairness, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">any claim that a part or parts of the Gruen document is/are false should be accompanied by specific proof of same</span></em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">.</span></p>
<p>In assessing all the above, the following information must be kept in mind:</p>
<blockquote><p>1) The July 1 letter was “a summary letter of the result” of the June 28 meeting consisting of Gruen and his staff with Wimber, Cain and Deere in which the Gruen Document was reportedly reviewed “page by page” by all parties involved.  Presumably, these concessions were a joint decision by all since these were affirmed, or at least not denied either in part or in full, in Wimber’s <em>Equipping The Saints</em> article “A Response to Pastor Ernie Gruen’s Controversy with Kansas City Fellowship.”<sup>83</sup></p>
<p>2) Paul Cain was celebrated by Wimber and favored by him to the point that he claimed the two were “bonded for life.”  That’s a very strong connection between the two.  Likewise, Jack Deere continued to promote Cain as a “true prophet.”  Moreover, Vineyard Ministries International had a financial stake in Paul Cain in providing the majority of the funding for Grace Ministries Shiloh project by fall 1989 with Cain as its senior prophetic voice.</p>
<p>3) Given that we can prove the veracity of the large majority of the Paul Cain transcripts – over half of the portion specifically pertaining to Cain – thereby proving the “Joel’s Army” tape did indeed teach the Manifested Sons of God doctrine, why did Gruen state specifically that Cain “does not hold to the Manifested Sons doctrine, but totally denies ever having believed in that teaching” and why did Wimber and company agree with this?  Is the analysis above correct regarding the interpretation of this statement; and, if so, does this mean Paul Cain, John Wimber, Jack Deere and Mike Bickle no longer adhere to and/or claim to have never adhered to MSoG?  This will be the subject of two future articles – one specifically with regard to John Wimber, the other Mike Bickle.</p>
<p>4) Why was the Paul Cain “Joel’s Army” tape discontinued?   If the claim is that Cain did not teach MSoG, wouldn’t this tape be kept in circulation by KCF turned Metro Vineyard Fellowship to illustrate that the Gruen Document was in error in order to ‘vindicate’ Paul Cain especially since the transcripts from this tape make up over half the information on Cain in the Gruen Document?  Why were the other Paul Cain tapes discontinued some of which were not even referenced in the Gruen Document?</p>
<p>5) Gruen stands by the Document stating, “We still believe our documentation of the aberrant practices and teachings of Kansas City Fellowship are essentially accurate” in prefacing the three conceded points.</p></blockquote>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>69</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 131. Beverley states that most who meet Cain find him to be “a gentle man” and himself describes Cain as “delightful and warm” while Kenn Gulliksen extolled Cain’s “love and care.”  Grady [<em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">What Happened</span></em> p 116] states, “…several prominent leaders in the charismatic renewal endorse his ministry and vouch for his character.”<br />
<sup>70</sup> Wimber, John “A Response to Pastor Ernie Gruen’s Controversy with Kansas City Fellowship” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Equipping the Saints</span></em>. Fall 1990, Special UK Edition; pp 3, 27-30<br />
<sup>71</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 125<br />
<sup>72</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 125<br />
<sup>73</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 125<br />
<sup>74</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 126<br />
<sup>75</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 126<br />
<sup>76</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. p 219 / 209<br />
<sup>77</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 125<br />
<sup>78</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 126<br />
<sup>79</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 126<br />
<sup>80</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. p 219 / 209. Jackson has a duplicate footnote reference placing 6 in the text twice.  The first one references the immorality charge while the second refers to the fact that Deere was openly sensitive toward Bickle which Jackson sources from Beverley. After checking the Beverley thoroughly, there is no mention of immorality whatsoever with respect to Gruen.  Going back to footnote 5 in Jackson is Wimber’s “A Response to Gruen” article in <em>ETS </em>which similarly has no mention of immorality.  This is not to make a counterclaim that there was no immorality; this is to illustrate, in fairness, that there’s no substantiation to the claim by Jackson.<br />
<sup>81</sup> Grady, J. Lee “Kansas City Churches Reconciled: Gruen Resigns After Announcement”<em> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Charisma</span></em>. July 1993, Vol. 18 No. 12; p 54.  Gruen made his statement on May 24, 1993 claiming, “My sin causing this resignation is not committing adultery, but committing divorce.”<br />
<sup>82</sup> Grady, J. Lee “Kansas City Churches Mend Rift” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Charisma &amp; Christian Life</span></em>. September 1995, Vol. 21 No. 2; p 34<br />
<sup>83</sup> Wimber “Response to Gruen” pp 3, 27-30</span></span></p>
<h4><strong>A Drought Evolves</strong></h4>
<p>One of the most common attempts at discrediting the Gruen Document involves the “drought prophecy.”  Like Paul Cain’s “earthquake prophecy” was used to validate Cain’s message to Wimber and the Vineyard, Bob Jones’ “drought prophecy” was claimed to legitimize Mike Bickle’s KCF “movement.”</p>
<p>From the opening in the Gruen Document:</p>
<blockquote><p>For example, Mike regularly retells the story of how the so-called “prophet” Bob Jones predicted [on May 27, 1983] <strong>a 3-month drought which would finally end with a “drought-breaker” on August 23</strong>.</p>
<p>In telling this tale, Mike makes such statements as, “<strong>We watched it day by day&#8230;June, no rain&#8230;then on August 23, three to four inches of rain</strong>!” This is portrayed as God’s confirmation of their “Movement.” It sounded like a pretty impressive miracle until we checked with the National Weather Bureau and the daily newspaper accounts for that timeframe. We found the following:</p>
<p>a.         Actual readings from the former Richards Gebaur Air Force base, which is only a few minutes from Kansas City Fellowship, show <strong>over seven inches of rain in June, which is well above normal</strong>!</p>
<p>b.         <strong>The “drought-breaker” on August 23 actually produced less than one-third of an inch</strong>.</p>
<p>c.         Of the 12 days it rained in June, [six] of them produced records of rains heavier than the “drought-breaker.” One day alone had over seven times the rainfall on August 23 – 2.35 inches. (See Section I)</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;">From the beginning</span> this could have never been considered a true prophecy.<sup>84</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Gruen lays out the specific parameters as set forth in the Bob Jones “prophecy” as gleaned from the earliest recording of this event [1986].  This ‘drought’ was to be one of <strong><em>no rain</em></strong> from the time of Jones’ purported proclamation at the end of May until August 23<sup>rd</sup> at which point there was to be a drought-breaking rain.  This is both very well defined and very straightforward.</p>
<p>Even though there was in fact a drought defined as ‘a prolonged period of less than normal rainfall’ in the late summer of 1983 beginning in July, Gruen’s point was to merely disprove the specific parameters of Jones “prophecy” which proclaimed a ‘<strong><em>no rain</em></strong> whatsoever’ drought to encompass all of June, July and August up through to the August 23<sup>rd</sup> ‘drought-breaker.’  To do so, all he had to show was that there was rainfall in June thereby negating the drought’s beginning and then show that even though there was rain on August 23<sup>rd</sup>, the amount was very small, much less than the reported 3 to 4 inches of ‘drought-breaking’ rain as reported by Bickle.</p>
<p>The Gruen Document transcribed two different tapes of this “drought prophecy.”  The earliest, from Spring 1986 titled <em>The Prophetic History of Grace Ministries, Volume 2</em> (a tape series among those on the June 1990 discontinued list), follows.  This starts out with Bickle quoting Bob Jones:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>‘This is the sign in the heavens, again…<span style="text-decoration:underline;">For three months there will be a drought in this city.’</span>…The sign is (that) there will be a pattern in the heavens – a weather pattern, and you can’t manipulate weather patterns, so we said, ‘<span style="text-decoration:underline;">Okay, if it comes to pass, we know the word is true.’</span>…But he says, ‘<strong>On August 23, God will send a sign from heaven</strong>…’  I said, ‘Bob, I hope this is right.’  <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Cause it was terrible.  June – no rain…August 23, 6:00 at night, it rains, what, 3 to 4 inches of rain</span></strong>…It was a sign in the heavens that no man could have manipulated; it was spoken publicly for all to hear.</em><sup>85</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Gruen left out a bit from the audio here (illustrated by the ellipses […]) as, again, his point was to show that the Bickle claim of <strong><em>no rain</em></strong> for the month of June and a pouring rain of 3 to 4 inches on August 23<sup>rd</sup> were untrue.  Thankfully, we also have David Pytches’ <em>Some Said it Thundered</em> (original, unrevised first edition)<sup>86</sup> rendition of this “drought prophecy” which corresponds to the Gruen account above while filling in some of the information missing in the ellipses. </p>
<p>Pytches transcribed KCF tapes as he states this in the “Acknowledgements”: “I want to express my appreciation to Kansas City Fellowship for their ready permission for me to quote from their unedited tapes…”<sup>87</sup> Unfortunately, Pytches’ work does not provide footnotes and does not include any tape titles or numbers in the list of references in the back of his book.  However, it appears as though he paraphrases a bit rather than quoting directly since some of the words don’t exactly match up to Gruen’s even though the basic details do:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>“…[T]here will be the <strong>total withholding of everything for three month, </strong> although the Lord will allow a little bit of liberty.</em></p>
<p><em>In this city <strong>everything will be withheld</strong>.  For three months there will be a drought.  That’s the sign!  God has spoken!&#8230;for three months there will be <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">no rain</span></strong> – not until 23 August.”</em><sup>88</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Once again, to restate, according to this “prophecy” there was to be <strong><em>no rain</em></strong> at all, not a sprinkle, until August 23.  Picking up where we left off:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong><em>Bob had given a specific date for the end of a drought which he predicted was about to begin</em></strong><em>.</em></p>
<p><em>This level of prophecy could certainly be nervy!  Mike found himself becoming <strong>an expert weather watcher</strong>…To quote Mike:</em></p>
<p><em>“…For <strong>the whole month of</strong> <strong>June there was no rain</strong>!  It was terrible!  For <strong>the whole month of July there was no rain</strong>!  It was terrible!</em></p>
<p><em>“<strong>No rain still during the first week of August or the second or the third</strong>.  It was terrible!  Bob Jones said the Lord had told him it would come on 23 August.  We had all been poised since early dawn that day but by 1 p.m. there was still no rain.  By six o’clock we were just resigned to wait for another day when suddenly it began.  And did it rain?  <strong>It poured!</strong>  No man could have manipulated that.  It just had to be God!”</em><sup>89</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>As Pytches’ clearly describes, the claim is that as “an expert weather watcher” Bickle saw not a drop of rain for the entire period of June, July and August until August 23<sup>rd</sup> at which time “It poured!”  Yet when this is compared to actual rainfall as the Gruen Document states, June had above average rainfall for the area with six of those days well exceeding the .32” of rainfall on August 23<sup>rd</sup>.<sup>90</sup> Furthermore, July and August, while having much less than normal rainfall, did indeed have <strong><em>some</em></strong> rain.<sup>91</sup>  According to National Weather Service archives, actual monthly rainfall in Kansas City in 1983 for the summer and early fall was as follows: June: 6.46”; July: 1.17”; August: 0.97”; September: 1.91”; and, October: 4.15”.<sup>92</sup></p>
<p>Apparently, Bickle found out there really was some rainfall during the period of June 1 through August 22 since he revised this “prophecy” a bit as evidenced by the transcription of a recording from May of 1989 titled <em>Overview of Our Prophetic History</em> in the Gruen Document.  Bickle backpedals a bit:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Then Bob stands up at the end and he says, ‘I got bad news.’  He says, ‘The Lord told me that there isn’t gonna be a revival being poured out at the end of this 21 days.’  He said, ‘Worse than that, we’re goin’ to the <span style="text-decoration:underline;">three months of <strong>total barrenness</strong>.</span>  And there’s gonna be a drought upon the city.’  <strong>He didn’t say that there would be, you know, not a, not a sprinkle of rain</strong>.  He said there’d be a drought.  He said through the city.  And ah, I <strong>checked the newspaper once and found out that it rained an inch in the north over the summer</strong>.  But ah, you know, I’m not sure exactly how much, or somebody did – I can’t remember all the those details, but <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">we watched it day by day and there was a drought through those three months</span></strong>&#8230;</em><sup>93</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>In the earlier account there was the emphatic declaration of <strong><em>no rain</em></strong> yet the later account claims that Bob didn’t say there would be “not a sprinkle of rain.”  The first account was three years after this all important prophecy was spoken in 1983, yet in 1989 it seemed they didn’t recall it quite right in the earlier account of 1986.  Given that this was purportedly a “word from the Lord,” wouldn’t this have been meticulously recorded?  This should have been especially important to write down as this “prophecy” was to confirm the “movement” at KCF.</p>
<p>Bickle “can’t remember all those details” yet he “watched it day by day”?  Are we really to believe the “details” of something this important would not be remembered in view of the fact there was so much at stake?  And he maintains there was a “drought those three months” including June in which, as stated, there was almost 6.5” of rain with more than a few of those days much more than “a sprinkle.”   Continuing:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>He (Bob) said, ‘<strong>The Lord will break the drought in the natural over Kansas City</strong>, and it’s a sign that He will, on an appointed time, break the drought in the Spirit, but not until He appoints the time.’ </em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>…And, ah, we’ve had several different theories when that drought was gonna break, but it hadn’t broke yet.  And, ah, so, so much for all our theories.  But <strong>there is an appointed time when the drought breaks in the natural</strong> as well as the Spirit.  And he said, ‘And here’s the proof that there will, <strong>it will break on an appointed day in the natural.</strong>’  He said, <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">‘On August 23, the drought will end and the rains will come to the city.</span> </strong></em><strong></strong><sup>94</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Once again, Bickle makes the claim that August 23<sup>rd</sup> would be the drought-breaker at which time “the drought will end and the rains will come to the city.”  Bickle goes on reiterating how no one could humanly predict that it was to rain on a particular day three months later “to break a 3-month drought.”  He proclaimed, “It was a supernatural sign to us.”<sup>95</sup></p>
<p>Once Wimber/Vineyard took over the reins of Kansas City Fellowship, the “drought prophecy” was analyzed and explained in a much different way.  Their claim was that Gruen was wrong in his dogmatic statement: “There was no drought…This prophecy did not happen.  It was a total fabrication to promote &#8216;The Movement.&#8217;”<sup>96</sup> Unfairly, they left out a very important part of Gruen’s complete statement which follows:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>There was no drought.  <strong>Anyone who went outside or read the newspaper <span style="text-decoration:underline;">could not</span> have considered June a month of drought</strong>.  The sprinkle of rain on August 23 was not considered a drought-breaker.  This prophecy did not happen; it was a total fabrication to promote “The Movement.”  From the start, this prophecy could never have been considered true.</em><sup>97</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>To reiterate, Gruen’s point was that the drought as “prophesied” was stated to have begun right away with the specific claim that June had <strong><em>no rain</em></strong> when in fact the rainfall that month was above normal.  Gruen does not deny there was a drought as defined by ‘a prolonged period of less than normal rainfall’ as he earlier stated, “July and August were below normal in rainfall;”<sup>98</sup> however, it would have been better if he had qualified his initial statement with something like “There was no drought as ‘prophesied’ by the specific parameters set by Jones.”  Gruen’s conclusion “From the start, this prophecy could never have been considered true” is absolutely correct given the heavy rains in June.</p>
<p>The Wimber/Vineyard defense consisted of shifting the “prophecy” to one of very limited rainfall instead of <strong><em>no rain</em></strong> simultaneously moving the start date from June 1 to July 1.  In addition, the August 23<sup>rd</sup> date was changed to merely a date of “prophesied” rain (admitting Bickle’s “mistake” in proclaiming a 3 to 4 inch downpour) instead of the drought-breaker yet no new drought-breaking date was specified claiming merely that the drought ended “in early October.”<sup>99</sup>  What was the date of the definitive drought-breaking rain?</p>
<p>Among other reasons, Pytches would publish a “new edition” of his book as he “corrected details in the case of one prophecy” which lined up with Wimber’s revised version.<sup>100</sup>  Using some of the portions already quoted above, we’ll compare the original Pytches rendition with his revised account by listing the ‘uncorrected’ followed by the “corrected” version:</p>
<blockquote><p>…<em>for <span style="text-decoration:underline;">three months there will be<strong> no rain</strong></span> – <span style="text-decoration:underline;">not until</span> 23 August.</em></p>
<p><em> …<span style="text-decoration:underline;">there <strong>will be rain</strong> on</span> August 23.</em><sup>101</sup></p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p><em>…<strong> </strong>Bob had given <span style="text-decoration:underline;">a specific date <strong>for the end of a drought</strong></span> which he predicted was about to begin.</em></p>
<p><em>…Bob had given <span style="text-decoration:underline;">a specific date <strong>for rain during the drought</strong></span><strong> </strong>which he predicted was about to begin.</em>[102]</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p><em>…For the <span style="text-decoration:underline;">whole month of <strong>June there was no rain</strong></span>!  It was terrible!  For the <span style="text-decoration:underline;">whole month of <strong>July there was no rain</strong></span>!  It was terrible!</em></p>
<p><em>The drought did not begin immediately.  In fact <span style="text-decoration:underline;">there was <strong>heavy rain in June</strong></span>, but for the <span style="text-decoration:underline;">whole of <strong>July it was dry</strong></span>.  It was terrible.</em><sup>103</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Pytches continues with the same paragraph ending with “It had to God” as in the original account.  Then he continues:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>That was still not the end of the drought, however.  Although it was not <strong>a total withholding of rain</strong>, the exceedingly dry period covered a full three months, <strong>except for the predicted break on August 23</strong>…</em><sup>104</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Recall that in the very beginning of the original account – which matches the revised version – are the words, “In this city everything will be withheld.”  So, why was this initial verbiage retained?  It obviously contradicts with the words above “<em>it was not a total withholding of rain</em>…”  And the “<em>predicted break</em>” consisted of a relatively scanty .32 inch which was hardly a break from the “<em>exceedingly dry period</em>” which admittedly contained sprinkles of rain during this time anyway.  Pytches, like Wimber, does not specify a “drought-breaker” date.</p>
<p>So, initially in the 1986 version “total barrenness” meant “<strong><em>no rain</em></strong>” (matching Pytches’ original account), in 1989 it was changed to <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">not</span></em><span style="text-decoration:underline;"> <em>mean</em></span> “not a sprinkle of rain” in view of the fact that there was in fact rain in June, which was changed again in 1990 to the drought actually beginning in July since it was further discovered that June had higher rains than normal (matching Pytches’ revised account).  Are we to believe that Bickle’s memory is that poor with respect to the “drought prophecy” yet he was certain that May 7, 1983 was the starting point of a 21-day fast which had just ended at which point Jones had purportedly proclaimed this “drought prophecy” and Bickle was certain of other specific dates in KCF’s history as well?  Why would he have meticulously recorded these dates and not the beginning and end of the “drought?” </p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>84</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. pp 10 / 11-12.  Underscore in original; emphasis added.<br />
<sup>85</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. pp 41-2 / 55. Underscore in original; emphasis added.<br />
<sup>86</sup> Pytches, David <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Some Said it Thundered</span></em>. 1990 (first edition, second impression) [unrevised version], Hodder &amp; Stoughton, London, UK<br />
<sup>87</sup> Pytches, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em> 1990 (unrevised) unnumbered page just before Introduction<br />
<sup>88</sup> Pytches, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em> 1990 (unrevised) p 89<br />
<sup>89</sup> Pytches, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em> 1990 (unrevised) p 90<br />
<sup>90</sup> Interestingly, data recorded at Kansas City International Airport (MCI), which admittedly is 30 miles north of Grandview, shows that the 22<sup>nd </sup>was mostly cloudy or overcast beginning at 7am with a trace of rain [.07”] recorded at 1pm with the mostly cloudy/overcast conditions continuing into the 23<sup>rd</sup>.  The next day, on the 23<sup>rd</sup>, data shows rain beginning around 7am with accumulation of .18” by 8am, another .04” by 9am followed by .04” at 10am.  The mostly cloudy/overcast conditions continued into the night. This does not preclude the Bickle account of the 23<sup>rd</sup> from being true including no rain until 6pm, of course, noting the distance from KCF to the airport.  This info was gleaned from Weather Underground &lt;<a href="http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMDT/1983/6/1/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&amp;req_state=NA&amp;req_statename=NA">http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMDT/1983/6/1/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&amp;req_state=NA&amp;req_statename=NA</a>&gt; by inputting the airport code (MCI) and the applicable dates.  As accessed 10/15/11<br />
<sup>91</sup> Weather Watcher (see link above) indicates rain at the airport in both July and August.  Since the prophecy was for the entire city of Kansas City, rainfall at the airport must be included in any analysis.  In Pytches’ account, which appears to be the same as Bickle’s, it’s explicitly stated there was <strong><em>no rain</em></strong> whatsoever until August 23<sup>rd</sup>.  In August prior to the 23<sup>rd</sup>, the airport recorded .12” on the 7<sup>th</sup> with traces [less than .1] on the 9<sup>th</sup>, 15<sup>th</sup>, 20<sup>th</sup> and 22<sup>nd</sup>.<br />
<sup>92</sup> These totals are from the Weather Warehouse which takes its data from the National Weather Service &lt;<a href="http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_KansasCityDowntownArpt_KansasCity_MO_June.html">http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_KansasCityDowntownArpt_KansasCity_MO_June.html</a>&gt; As accessed 10/15/11<br />
<sup>93</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 41 / 53. Underscore in original; emphasis added.<br />
<sup>94</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. pp 41 / 53-54. Underscore in original; emphasis added.<br />
<sup>95</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 41 / 54. Underscore in original; emphasis added.<br />
<sup>96</sup> Wimber “Response to Gruen” p 28<br />
<sup>97</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 42 / 56. Underscore in original; emphasis added.<br />
<sup>98</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 42 / 55. Underscore in original; emphasis added.<br />
<sup>99</sup> Wimber “Response to Gruen” p 28.  Actual rainfall for October as recorded at Kansas City International Airport (MCI) shows none until the 4<sup>th</sup> with a mere .21 inch of rain and no further rain until nearly an inch [.93”] fell on the 11<sup>th</sup>; however, this was followed by no significant rain (there was a trace [.02”] on the 16<sup>th</sup>) until the 19<sup>th</sup> with about ¾ inch [.79”] which was followed the next day with ½ inch [.57”] and the next with a bit under ½ inch [.40”].  However, as stated earlier, it’s possible there was more (or less) rain in other parts of KC.<br />
<sup>100</sup> Pytches, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em>. 1991 new edition; p xxvii.  The revised version also omits some verbiage from Cain’s account of the Lord purportedly appearing with him in his car [Pytches (first, unrevised) p 38].  Specifically, the words deleted were describing items Jesus purportedly wore during the incident: “…dressed in a monk’s black habit and wearing a skull cap.”  In an August 1990 letter to <em>Prophecy Today</em> subscribers, Clifford Hill states the original <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em> was “at present out of print” although the publishers “intend on reissuing it” in a revised version.  Hill also states, “John Wimber told me that he had identified ‘a number of factual errors’ in the book, and Mike Bickle has sent David Pytches a 60 minute tape of corrections.”  Keep in mind that Pytches was given access to KCF/GM tapes for the original issue.<br />
<sup>101</sup> Pytches, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em>. 1991 new edition; p 90.  The original account [p 89] is listed first.<br />
<sup>102</sup> Pytches, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em>. 1991 new edition; p 90.  The original account [p 90] is listed first.<br />
<sup>103</sup> Pytches, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em>. 1991 new edition; p 90.  The original account [p 90] is listed first.<br />
<sup>104</sup> Pytches, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Thundered</span></em>. 1991 new edition; p 90.  The original account [p 90] is listed first.</span></span></p>
<h4><strong>Comparing ‘Words’</strong></h4>
<p>Let’s compare this “drought prophecy” to the circumstances surrounding the 1988 “earthquake prophecy.”  Jack Deere initially ‘misquoted’ the timing of the second earthquake, however later he recalled “in vivid detail” the ‘facts’ of this “prophecy.”  As shown above, Deere had difficulty with details of a “prophecy” of a much more personal nature with both conflicting and added details coming later, so his memory would seem to be questionable.   Mike Bickle would also incorrectly record the timing of the second earthquake in his 1996 book <em>Growing in the Prophetic</em>.  John Wimber later was unsure whether it was actually predicted or not.</p>
<p>The circumstances surrounding the “drought prophecy” are similarly troubling.  Given that the “drought prophecy” was initially one of <strong><em>no rain</em></strong> with very specific parameters including a drought-breaking rain on a specified date, it’s odd that the final Wimber (and/or Deere) version is one of limited rainfall, a different starting date, and no specified drought-breaking end date but instead a rather nebulous “early October” ending.  To quote Beverley: “…many of Bob Jones predictions were announced <em>ex post facto</em>”<sup>105</sup> – after the fact.  Given the evolving nature of the “drought prophecy,” was it among those announced after the fact despite the claim to the contrary? </p>
<p>In each case there is no recorded proof either in written form or in audio to confirm these “prophecies” were given in advance.  Given that the “earthquake prophecy” was to validate Cain’s message to the Vineyard and the “drought prophecy” was to provide legitimacy to the KCF “movement,” why weren’t these “prophecies” recorded in such a manner to prove their veracity?  Absent any sort of proof, it would be prudent to remain skeptical – especially given the circumstances as outlined above in each of these. </p>
<p>If Cain were to have remained discredited in the Gruen Document, this could cast further doubt on the legitimacy of Cain’s “earthquake prophecy” which would in turn cast a long shadow on the Vineyard in general as it was Cain’s message which validated the Vineyard involvement in the “prophetic movement” in the first place.  With stakes this high, the pressure to discredit the Gruen Document and to exonerate Cain must have been enormous.</p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>105</sup> Beverley, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Holy Laughter</span></em>; p 128</span></span></p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/association-of-vineyard-churches/'>Association of Vineyard Churches</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bob-jones/'>Bob Jones</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/christology/'>Christology</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/dominionism/'>Dominionism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/ernie-gruen/'>Ernie Gruen</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/eschatology/'>Eschatology</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/gnosticism/'>Gnosticism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/holy-spirit/'>Holy Spirit</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/ihop/'>IHOP</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/international-house-of-prayer/'>International House of Prayer</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/jack-deere/'>Jack Deere</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/joels-army/'>Joel's Army</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/john-paul-jackson/'>John Paul Jackson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/john-wimber/'>John Wimber</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/kansas-city-prophets/'>Kansas City Prophets</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/mike-bickle/'>Mike Bickle</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-age/'>New Age</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-breed/'>New Breed</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/paul-cain/'>Paul Cain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/prophet/'>Prophet</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/spiritual-warfare/'>spiritual warfare</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/william-branham/'>William Branham</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/anointing/'>anointing</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bob-jones/'>Bob Jones</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/christology/'>Christology</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/demons/'>demons</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/dominionism/'>Dominionism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/esoteric/'>esoteric</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teacher/'>false teacher</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/gnosticism/'>Gnosticism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/heresy/'>Heresy</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-age-religion/'>New Age Religion</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/occult/'>occult</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/signs-and-wonders/'>signs and wonders</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/todd-bentley/'>Todd Bentley</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2101/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=2101&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/in-exonerating-paul-cain-is-the-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-invalidated/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>21</slash:comments>
<enclosure url="http://ihopcontent.ihop.org/ihopcntnt/endis/FreeMP3s/Encountering_Jesus_D1.mp3" length="20697542" type="audio/mpeg" />
<enclosure url="http://ihopcontent.ihop.org/ihopcntnt/endis/FreeMP3s/Encountering_Jesus_D1.mp3" length="20697542" type="audio/mpeg" />
<enclosure url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/cains-vision-of-deeres-mother.mp3" length="2945890" type="audio/mpeg" />
<enclosure url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/cains-vision-of-deeres-mother.mp3" length="2945890" type="audio/mpeg" />
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/gruen13.jpg" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">gruen1</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/cains-vision-of-deeres-mother.mp3" medium="audio">
			<media:player url="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/wp-content/plugins/audio-player/player.swf?soundFile=http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/cains-vision-of-deeres-mother.mp3" />
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Did Ernie Gruen Recant His ‘Aberrant Practices’ Document Regarding Kansas City Fellowship/Grace Ministries?</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/did-ernie-gruen-recant-his-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-regarding-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/did-ernie-gruen-recant-his-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-regarding-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 02:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[antichrist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Association of Vineyard Churches]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bob Jones]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Earl Paulk]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ernie Gruen]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gnosticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IHOP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[International House of Prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jack Deere]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joel's Army]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Wimber]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kansas City Prophets]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Latter Rain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manifest Sons of God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mike Bickle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Apostolic Reformation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Breed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paul Cain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophet]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophetic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[apostle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[David Parker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[David Ravenhill]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Derek Prince]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ernest Gruen]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[esoteric]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Francis Frangipane]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grace Ministries]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heresy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jamie Buckingham]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kansas City Fellowship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[KCF]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lee Grady]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leonard Ravenhill]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Metro Vineyard Christian Fellowship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Metro Vineyard Fellowship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mike Bickel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MVF]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prophecy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prophets]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ralph Mahoney]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rick Joyner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs and wonders]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=1658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The prophecy movement carries with it the seeds of deception.  At worst in the discipleship/shepherding movement some shepherd told you what to do.  In the prophecy movement it’s God(?) who tells you what to do. - Jamie Buckingham, May/June 1990 Ministries Today1 In context, Buckingham, in the quote above, was speaking of the excesses in [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=1658&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="center"><em>The prophecy movement carries with it the seeds of deception.  At worst in the discipleship/shepherding movement some shepherd told you what to do.  In the prophecy movement it’s God(?) who tells you what to do.</em></p>
<p style="text-align:right;" align="center"><em>- </em>Jamie Buckingham, May/June 1990<em> Ministries Today</em><sup>1</sup></p>
<p style="text-align:left;" align="center">In context, Buckingham, in the quote above, was speaking of the excesses in personal foretelling prophecies; however, the same could be said for much of the modern so-called “Apostolic/Prophetic” (New Apostolic Reformation aka NAR) movement in general.  This would include both the foretelling and the forthtelling varieties, i.e. what some of these “prophets” are claiming God is saying today much of which is at odds with traditional, literal interpretations of Scripture.</p>
<p>Back in the late 1980s Kansas City Fellowship (KCF, aka Grace Ministries) in Kansas City, Missouri, pastored by the young Mike Bickle, was involved in a controversy regarding this new “Prophecy Movement.”  This controversy centered around the so-called Kansas City Prophets (KCP) of which Bob Jones, Paul Cain, and John Paul Jackson were the most visible.  Ernest J. Gruen, senior pastor of Full Faith Church of Love-West of Shawnee, Kansas, just the other side of the Missouri state line, had growing concerns about the teachings, prophecies, and practices at KCF.  After showing concern about these aberrances to Mike Bickle and feeling as though these concerns were not being heeded, Gruen, after prayer, decided to preach his sermon <a href="http://www.archive.org/details/DoWeKeepSmilingAndSayNothingErnieGruenJan201990">“Do We Keep Smiling and Say Nothing”</a> on January 21, 1990 detailing some of the problems at KCF.</p>
<p>The tape of this January 21 sermon was distributed throughout the US bringing media attention to the Kansas City area.  During this time Gruen and some of his staff transcribed tapes distributed by Grace Ministries/KCF and analyzed those as well as teaching materials from KCF/GM resulting in the release of the 233-page <a href="http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/kcp/Abberent%20Practises.pdf"><em>Documentation of Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries)</em></a> [hereafter identified as the “Gruen Document”<em> </em>or “the Document”] in May of 1990.  The Gruen Document corrected three mistakes made in the taped sermon of January 21 all having to do with associated details.</p>
<p>Subsequent to this, there have been persistent rumors, speculations and allegations that Ernie Gruen recanted the Document in part or <em>in toto</em>.  Is this true?  While it is true Gruen conceded portions of the Gruen Document in a letter dated July 1, 1990 some aspects of this statement seem troublingly self-contradictory when compared to the 233-page Document.  This raises a number of associated questions.  Is this letter real, legitimate?  If so, what factors contributed to the release of this statement?  If so, were these concessions just honest mistakes or did Gruen fabricate these portions of the Document?  Assuming these concessions were made, and given the importance of the Gruen Document, why does this continue to be the subject of rumor and speculation rather than established fact?  This article will attempt to answer some of these questions.</p>
<p>This is not an attempt to dredge up the past.  This is an attempt to arrive at the whole truth of the matter.  Kansas City Fellowship would later become what is now known as the <a href="http://www.ihop.org/">International House of Prayer</a> – more commonly “IHOP” – which is recognized worldwide.  Many other similar _HOPs, patterned after the Kansas City model, have been established throughout the US and around the world.  In view of this, the history of this movement could be of  importance to tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, especially since Mike Bickle continues to espouse KCF as part of the IHOP heritage.</p>
<h4><strong>Timeline of Events</strong></h4>
<p>A timeline of events specifically regarding Gruen and KCF as well as contemporaneous accounts and findings by others regarding KCF and Vineyard (the <a href="http://www.vineyardusa.org/site/">Association of Vineyard Churches</a>, under John Wimber’s leadership eventually assumed control of KCF) will help in assessing the facts and will shed further light.  All dates are from 1990 unless otherwise specified:</p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">January (inclusive dates unknown)</span></strong>:  A “massive” two week conference titled “Holiness” is held at John Wimber’s Anaheim Vineyard as mentioned in Bill Jackson’s book <em>The Quest for the Radical Middle</em>, a history of Vineyard.  The book does not specifically list the featured speakers. Reportedly, there were 5000 registrants per week.<sup>2</sup></p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">January 21</span></strong>: Ernie Gruen preaches the sermon “Do We Keep Smiling and Say Nothing.”  The tape was distributed in the United States and apparently eventually ended up going worldwide.  After its release over 40 Kansas City pastors united with Gruen.<sup>3</sup></p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">January 22 (or 29)</span></strong>:<sup>4 </sup>Mike Bickle responds with an open letter.  The letter has not been recovered but portions are quoted in other sources:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>I am very eager to meet with you to clear up these terrible misunderstandings.  I leave the initiative for a meeting in your hands respecting your need to first hear from the Lord in a fresh way.  I’d suggest that we call men with national ministries to come and sit with us in order to help us communicate.</em><sup>5</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>John Wimber, referencing Bickle’s January letter, in an article written after Gruen agreed to stop sending out the Gruen Document states:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Bickle declined to question Gruen’s motives or sincerity, instead claiming that much of Gruen’s accusations were based on a <span style="text-decoration:underline;">confusion of facts and wrong information</span>.</em></p>
<p><em>Bickle took some responsibility for the <span style="text-decoration:underline;">confusion of facts</span>, saying he should have been more diligent to communicate the nature of KCF’s beliefs and practices to Gruen in earlier talks.  He added, “I will not respond to specific issues publicly to avoid further strife and hurt, but will gladly meet with you along with any of your leaders at your convenience.” </em><sup>6</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>In an article in the September/October issue of<em> Ministries Today</em>, Lee Grady states this about the Bickle response to Gruen’s tape:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Feeling injured and betrayed, he wrote an open letter to Gruen, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">denouncing the charges as false and misleading</span>.  Most of the specific incidents described on the tape as evidence of KCF’s errors were <span style="text-decoration:underline;">grossly inaccurate</span>, he said.  But Bickle displayed gentility in his response and never once tried to vindicate himself publicly or deny that his ministry had made mistakes.  “I open my heart to any correction you have to offer that relates to any of our problems,” he wrote Gruen.</em><sup>7</sup> </p></blockquote>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">March (exact dates unknown)</span></strong>:  At a conference titled “What the Holy Spirit is Saying to the Church Today” in Sydney, Australia, Wimber/Vineyard were confronted by some locals who wanted Wimber and company to go back home.  Jack Deere and Paul Cain were on this trip.<sup>8</sup>  In April, a very critical report from Philip Jensen’s church – the group that criticized Vineyard – came out in the journal <em>The Briefing.</em><sup>9</sup>  Deere would later write about the incident in a 1992 position paper.<sup>10</sup>          </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">March 20</span></strong>: Letter is sent to District Superintendents of the Assemblies of God (A/G) by Jewel van der Merwe (now Grewe) as a follow up to an earlier letter (date unknown) listing problems with GM/KCF.  In the letter, she relays an account of an individual who moved to Kansas City the previous summer [‘89] as a result of guidance from “one of  prophets in Kansas City.”  Jewel was in the KC area in October of ’89, contacted the individual and relates, “She told me prophecies had gone out that thousands of pastors would be leaving their churches and moving to Kansas City to be part of what God is doing in the End-time…”  When questioned on what authority the individual knew these prophets were of God, the conversation was abruptly ceased by the individual.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>This matter has distressed me greatly for the last several months.  We have spent hours transcribing tapes from the new prophets.  I know that the Assemblies [of God] all over the country are going to be affected by what is happening because of the mass media exposure, massive conferences already planned for the near future and the amount of books and tapes being churned out at a rapid rate.</em>        </p></blockquote>
<p>Listed in the letter are a number of serious errors being taught (from Bob Jones’ tapes/teachings and by extension Mike Bickle who was interviewing Jones on some of these) including the disbelief in a literal anti-christ, the intent to disband denominations including the A/G, the “Elect Generation” (elected seed) doctrine, the practice of the laying on of hands after which the individual “changes radically,” Melchisedek Priesthood teaching [which is taught in Rosicrucianism], disbelief in a literal Rapture, and the claim of power to remit sin.  After this list, is the following statement:</p>
<blockquote><p>  <em>…<strong>[T]his is just the beginning of the heresy they are teaching.  The deity of Jesus Christ is being subtly undermined and replaced with the deification of man</strong>. </em></p></blockquote>
<p>The letter explicitly identifies the overall teachings of the KCP/KCF as the New Order of the Latter Rain doctrine while pointing out that this was denounced as heresy by the A/G in 1948.<sup>11</sup>   </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">March 30</span></strong>: Gruen’s letter to Bickle in response to the January 22 (or 29) letter agreeing to a meeting with “national leaders.”</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…I am now convinced that your group does not represent orthodox Christianity; that many of your church’s prophecies are from familiar spirits and actually divination; and that you are very close to becoming a Charismatic heresy and a cult group.  The material that we have documented, <strong>from your own writings and tapes</strong>, has led me to this sad conclusion&#8230;</em></p>
<p><em>The local Kansas City situation is not the focus now, since we have followed the process and procedures commanded in Matthew 18 precisely through to the third step when we told it to the church [sic]. The message I preached on January 21, 1990, at this point, is no longer relevant.  The issue is that you have started a movement that is promoting prophecies throughout the nation that are total fabrications in order to gain credibility for ‘your movement.’ You have done irreparable harm to the [C]hurch in Kansas City, and we do not wish to harm hundreds of thousands of people nationwide…</em><sup>12</sup>          </p></blockquote>
<p>Gruen went so far as to suggest twelve men who “would definitely be a fair and responsible group” six of whom he never met and four “only casual acquaintances.”  At least one of those listed, Earl Paulk, explicitly taught Latter Rain doctrine including the Manifested Sons of God (MSoG) heresy.  Obviously, Gruen was not aware of this at the time since he himself denounced MSoG in the Gruen Document.  It’s apparent that Gruen was not familiar with some of his chosen group’s doctrines or affiliations.  The full list follows:</p>
<p>Dick Benjamin<br />
Roderick Caeser, Jr.<br />
Emmanuele Cannistraci<br />
John Casteel<br />
Charles Green<br />
John Hagee<br />
Dick Iverson<br />
Houston Miles<br />
Paul Paino<br />
Earl Paulk<br />
Charles Simpson<br />
Ken Sumrall           </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">April 4</span></strong>: Gruen releases “Open Letter to National Leaders” to the Network of Christian Ministries (NCM).  This amounted to a request for a “heresy trial” according to Jamie Buckingham which “would have forced that board into the unenviable and dangerous position of an apostolic council – something charismatics have violently opposed in years past.”<sup>13</sup> </p>
<blockquote><p><em>…The <span style="text-decoration:underline;">purpose</span> of the meeting would <span style="text-decoration:underline;">not</span> be that Mike and I be reconciled, because we are totally convinced that many of his prophets prophecy by a familiar spirit and that they are a Charismatic heresy.  The <span style="text-decoration:underline;">purpose</span> of the meeting, therefore, would be for you to examine their doctrine and practices, to ascertain whether our conclusions are accurate; if not, we should be corrected.  On the other hand, if our conclusions are accurate, equitable, and righteous, then this should be exposed and such action should be taken as you decide…</em><sup>14</sup>           </p></blockquote>
<p>In the letter, Gruen promised to have the documentation available by May 31<sup>st</sup> and to provide a copy to KCF.  It is reported that Bickle and Gruen had agreed to a meeting with the NCM which was scheduled for July.<sup>15</sup> </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">April (date of event in dispute)</span></strong>: Bill Jackson’s <em>The Quest For the Radical Middle</em>,<sup>16 </sup>corresponding with John Wimber’s report in his own <em>Equipping the Saints</em> magazine,<sup>17 </sup>states that Wimber and Cain “had met with Gruen as early as April to try to resolve their differences.”  Given that Cain was not specifically mentioned until the Gruen Document which wasn’t released until May, which seems to have provided the catalyst for Cain’s desire for a meeting with Gruen (see below), and that there is specifically mentioned a May 25 meeting consisting of Wimber and Cain with Gruen, it appears this is in error.  This is further evidenced by continuing with the account as told by Jackson, “It was then agreed that Wimber’s associate Jack Deere, would meet with Gruen and his staff and consider all the charges.”  This agrees with the May 25 account below as recorded by Jamie Buckingham.  A May 25 date seems more likely since: 1) it follows the release of the Gruen Document; and, 2) the follow up meeting consisting of Deere with Gruen and his staff on June 12-14 was only about 3 weeks after May 25 rather than 6 or more weeks if this initial meeting was in April instead. </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">April 23</span></strong>: Albert James Dager, author and publisher of <em>Media Spotlight</em> founded in 1977, publishes a Special Report titled, “Latter-Day Prophets: The Kansas City Connection” thus predating the Gruen Document.  This includes <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">an interview with Mike Bickle</span></strong>, partial transcriptions of GM/KCF tapes (one of which was not referenced in the Gruen Document), and other associated material (some of which were not in the Gruen document).<sup>18</sup>  Dager would incorporate this Special Report into his book <em>Vengeance is Ours</em> readapting this material by adding other information including bits from the Gruen Document. </p>
<p>Obviously, given Bickle’s interview with Dager, he was aware that Dager was to publish an article further evidenced by the fact that he subsequently sent a letter to Dager<sup>19 </sup>after GM/KCF came under Wimber/Vineyard (see below).           </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">May 12</span></strong>: Grace Ministries/Kansas City Fellowship becomes Metro Vineyard Christian Fellowship, more commonly Metro Vineyard Fellowship (MVF), after coming under the headship of John Wimber and the Association of Vineyard Churches (AVC).<sup>20</sup>  This was “a surprise announcement,” according to Lee Grady.<sup>21  </sup>Wimber then wrote to the Network of Christian Ministries apprising them of this change stating it would be best for him to take care of the problems thus side-stepping the possibility of a heresy trial.<sup>22</sup> </p>
<p>It’s important to note that “<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">[Wimber] and <a href="http://www.vineyard.org/">Vineyard Ministries International</a> [had] been the major financial contributors to the Shiloh [Ministries] project</span></strong>” – a part of Grace Ministries – by Fall 1989 or earlier.  Shiloh “is a piece of land where various prophets can live together and share their revelations.”  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Wimber “is credited for a key role as a counselor in helping the team members establish some of Shiloh’s basic principles and practices.”</span><sup>23</sup>           </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">May (specific date unknown</span></strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">)</span> : The 233-page Gruen Document is released.  It contains Gruen’s letters of March 30 and April 4 as noted above, letters from other local churches in support of Gruen, testimonial letters reflecting negatively on KCF, transcripts of GM/KCF tapes, excerpts from teaching materials, and explanations as to the problems associated with the GM/KCF material.  In the first section of the Document, Gruen concedes three mistakes in his January sermon/tape with respect to the accuracy of specific details of these accounts while affirming their essential truthfulness.<sup>24</sup></p>
<p>The Document was apparently released just before, just after, or contemporaneous with the Vineyard assumption of KCF/GM.  In a July/August 1990 <em>Ministries Today</em> article, Jamie Buckingham seems to place the release of the Gruen Document after the advent of MVF.  After mentioning that KCF submitted to the Vineyard/Wimber leadership and Wimber’s subsequent letter to the NCM thereby averting a heresy trial, he then writes, “Gruen, nevertheless, released a 233-page spiral-bound ‘document’ listing numerous charges…”      </p>
<blockquote><p><em>Bickle and Cain immediately requested a meeting with Gruen and the board of the National Leadership Conference, which was then in session.  In that meeting, Cain said Gruen was not playing “fair” by printing accusations against him without first contacting him.  He and Bickle urged Gruen to withhold distribution of the document until Wimber could examine the issues.  (It was offered free to all who called Gruen’s church at [phone number].)  <strong>The NLC board strongly urged Gruen to consider their request</strong>.  Cain said he was flying to Kansas City and would sit and wait until Gruen talked to him.  Gruen refused to withdraw the book, but did agree to a private meeting with Cain and Wimber.</em><sup>25</sup>          </p></blockquote>
<p>Note that the National Leadership Conference (NLC) is different from the Network of Christian Ministries (NCM).  It seems possible that the NLC would have been more amenable to the Bickle-Cain position as Gruen had already suggested the NCM meet with Gruen and Bickle to review KCF’s doctrines and practices. </p>
<p>Buckingham’s account implies that Gruen defiantly went on with completing and distributing the Document even though Wimber had promised to provide oversight and the NCM agreed to allow Wimber to provide this correction rather than going through with a heresy trial presided by the NCM.  However, interestingly, Buckingham was president of the NLC board at the time – an important detail missing from the <em>Ministries Today</em> article above yet mentioned in the 1991 revised edition of David Pytches’ book <em>Some Said it Thundered</em>.<sup>26</sup>  The mere fact that a modified version of Buckingham’s article<sup>27 </sup>would appear in Pytches’ (revised) book – a positive view of KCF and the KCP – is troubling enough; however, when coupled with this omission, his objectivity could be called into question. </p>
<p>Compare the bolded portion above with the bolded portion below (The verbiage both directly preceding and following the words in this paragraph below are essentially the same as the above; however, the parenthetical statement about how to obtain a copy of the Gruen Document was deleted since this book was published in 1991, of course.): </p>
<blockquote><p><em>…[Cain and Bickle] urged him to withhold distribution of the book until Wimber could examine the issues.  <strong>As president of the NLC board I called a meeting in Ridgecrest, North Carolina, and we strongly urged Gruen – who was an NLC member – to consider their request.</strong>  Cain said he was flying to Kansas City…</em><sup>28</sup> </p></blockquote>
<p>In a July 1993 <em>Charisma</em> article, J. Lee Grady seems to place the release of the Gruen Document <strong><em>before</em></strong> the transition from KCF to MVF.  The subject of the article was that both Bickle and Gruen “asked each other for forgiveness” thus resolving the three years long dispute in the aftermath of the events surrounding the Gruen Document.<sup>29</sup>  In this piece, Grady mentions Gruen’s taped sermon in one paragraph, in the paragraph following he discusses the 233-page document, and two paragraphs later he states: </p>
<blockquote><p><em>Soon after Gruen aired the accusations, Bickle aligned KCF with the Association of Vineyard Churches…</em><sup>30</sup>           </p></blockquote>
<p>Given that the January sermon was nearly four months prior to the May 12 transition to MVF, this appears to indicate that Grady’s “soon after” comment did not refer to the tape but rather the Gruen Document instead thereby placing its release just before the May 12, 1990 transition date.  Grady’s article in the September/October 1990 <em>Ministries Today</em>, seems to indicate the same thing implicitly in a similar way.<sup>31</sup> </p>
<p>Jackson’s book also infers that the release of the Gruen Document followed the change from KCF to MVF aligning closer to Grady’s account by mentioning the tape, followed by the Gruen Document, followed by the Vineyard acquisition: </p>
<blockquote><p><em>In a surprise move, however, John Wimber stepped in during the month of May to cut off the controversy’s momentum.  He announced that Kansas City Fellowship was going to become a part of the Association of Vineyard Churches…</em><sup>32</sup> </p></blockquote>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">May 25</span></strong>: Three hour meeting is held consisting of Gruen and his staff with Wimber and Cain<sup>33 </sup>on the Friday preceding Memorial Day which reportedly “totally changed the direction of the controversy,” according to Buckingham:<sup>34</sup></p>
<blockquote><p><em>Gruen, who later called it a “sweet meeting in the Spirit,” opened by saying, “I do not have war in my heart.”  Wimber and Cain said they only wanted God’s best.  The result was the issuance of a joint statement to all factions saying:</em></p>
<ul>
<li><em>The opposing leaders trust each other’s integrity and spirit.</em></li>
<li><em>Vineyard leader Jack Deere, a former Dallas Seminary professor, will oversee a process to examine all the charges.</em></li>
<li><em>Wimber and Gruen want to model to the nation a “righteous method” of handling disputes.</em><sup>35</sup> </li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">June (specific date unknown)</span></strong>: Tapes are discontinued from the Grace Ministries “Spring Catalog ’90” [see previous article <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/your-assistance-requested-seeking-original-audiovideo-of-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/">here</a> on CrossWise] including many of the ones transcribed or referenced in the Gruen Document and Dager’s Special Report.   All of the Bob Jones material from the original catalog was deleted and much of Paul Cain’s.  Following is a complete list of the deleted items with a corresponding letter denoting the tapes’ reference in either the Gruen (G), the Dager (D), or both (B):</p>
<p>Bob Jones Visions and Revelations               B<br />
An Interview with Bob Jones                             B<br />
The Prophetic History of Grace Min.                B<br />
Endtime Prophetic Events (J.P. Jackson)      G<img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-1255" title="KCF-GM discontinued media" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-gm-discontinued-media.jpg?w=300&#038;h=220" alt="" width="300" height="220" /><br />
Personal Testimony (Paul Cain)                      G<br />
Our Father’s House (Paul Cain)                      n/a<br />
7 Spirits of God (Paul Cain)                               G<br />
Joel’s Army (Paul Cain)                                      G<br />
A New Breed (Paul Cain)                                   D<br />
Personal Testimony (Bob Jones)                    n/a<br />
Rest in His Mercy &amp; Grace (Bob Jones)         n/a<br />
Heaven &amp; Hell (Bob Jones)                               n/a<br />
Shepherd’s Rod Oct. ’89 (Bob Jones)             G<br />
An Intercessory Vow (Noel Alexander)            n/a<br />
Intercession With Angels (Mike Bickle)           n/a<br />
Video-Interview With Bob Jones                         *<br />
Video-Interview With Paul Cain                          *           </p>
<p>The asterisk is placed next to the Cain video as it contains the personal testimony on the single tape which is also deleted; so, it could be counted by extension with this in mind.  Similarly, the asterisk is placed next to the Jones video for the same reason..  As to the others, we erred on the side of caution as the Gruen Document used its own nomenclature making it sometimes difficult to cross-reference with the GM catalog.  Also noted is that Dager&#8217;s April 23rd article references Noel Alexander’s <em>Intercessory Prayer: Kansas City Fellowship’s Theology, History and Practice</em>.<sup>36  </sup>It seems plausible that the tape above titled <em>An Intercessory Vow</em> could have overlapping subject matter. </p>
<p>It’s rather curious that GM/KCF would discontinue the series which “is by far our best seller” – <em>The Prophetic History of Grace Ministries</em> – without having one to replace it [see previous post for <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/your-assistance-requested-seeking-original-audiovideo-of-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/">list of then current tape offerings</a>]. </p>
<p>In the Fall 1990 Christian Research Journal it is reported that all the Bob Jones tapes were taken out of circulation as a result of Wimber’s “attempt at correction”: </p>
<blockquote><p><em>…limitations on public ministry were placed on Bob Jones…Jones’s controversial tapes have been withdrawn from distribution and his ministry is limited to church leadership “behind closed doors.”</em><sup>37</sup>           </p></blockquote>
<p>Bickle later complained that he took the heat for some of the so-called Kansas City Prophets of whom he had no governing authority.<sup>38  </sup>While this may be true, Bickle certainly had control over whose tapes he would choose to distribute.  Selling taped messages of these individuals – especially those taped at KCF – is explicit endorsement; consequently, any criticism leveled against him regarding an individual whose tapes he distributed, especially with regard to the tapes&#8217; contents, is quite fair.  Given that a large portion of the Gruen Document was specifically about Bob Jones, whose tapes Bickle had been selling, some of which included Bickle in conversation with Jones, then this criticism is not only fair, it is expressly warranted. </p>
<p>Also of interest is the fact that Jewel van der Merwe (Grewe) of <a href="http://www.discernment-ministries.org/">Discernment Ministries</a> released her first <em>Discernment Newsletter</em> in <a href="http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1990May-FirstEdition.pdf">May</a>, <img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-1671" title="gruen3" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/gruen3.jpg?w=231&#038;h=300" alt="" width="231" height="300" />and the <a href="http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1990Jun.pdf">June newsletter</a> specifically mentions KCF as well as Bob Jones and Paul Cain.<sup>39</sup> </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">June 12-14</span></strong>: Meeting of Jack Deere with Gruen and his staff evaluating the concerns in the Gruen Document.<sup>40</sup> </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">June (likely, though date unknown)</span></strong>: 15 points/errors jointly prepared by Vineyard &amp; KCF obviously prior to the June 28 date in which Bickle “repents” of these specific errors.  Following is a list of these 15 in their entirety.  Note that these items are mostly, if not entirely, reflected explicitly or implicitly in the Gruen Document.  The 15 points/errors are preceded by a statement in all capital letters:</p>
<blockquote>
<p align="center">ERRORS THAT BOTH KCF AND VINEYARD HAD DISCOVERED PRIOR TO ERNIE’S REPORT AND HAD BEGUN TO CORRECT. </p>
<ol>
<li>The lack of accountability for prophecies that do not come true or do not bear witness to the person receiving the ministry.  The releasing of men to minister publicly in a teaching format who are not qualified as teachers.</li>
<li>The attempt by some prophetic ministers to establish doctrine or practice by revelation alone, apart from clear biblical support.</li>
<li>Dogmatic assertions in delivery of prophetic words.</li>
<li>On several occasions revealing negative prophetic words in public without first confronting the individual.</li>
<li>On several occasions revealing negatives in private without first confronting the individual.</li>
<li>Predictions concerning babies or marriages (except in cases of barrenness).</li>
<li>The conferring of governmental authority or staff positions on the individuals, as well as redirecting staff to different church locations without giving these words to the appropriate levels of leadership.</li>
<li>Giving prophetic words which affect a movement or church without going first to the appropriate levels of authority.</li>
<li>Public predictions of natural disasters, economic events, and divine visitations without the approval of government.</li>
<li>The use of prophetic gifting for controlling purposes.</li>
<li>Using types and allegories to establish doctrine.</li>
<li>Teaching or implying that KCF and Vineyard are an elite group or that we are the leaders of a new elite group about to be revealed by God.</li>
<li>Using jargon that reflects the teaching of groups that we do not wish to be identified with.</li>
<li>Calling John Wimber, or others, apostles and prophets verses (sic) using the terms “apostolic leadership” and “prophetic ministry.”</li>
<li>Manifesting an attitude of superiority through the possession of a secret body of information.  Amos 3:7 is true, but the prophetic people are not to wear a garment of pride because of this knowledge.<sup>41</sup> </li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">June 28</span></strong>: Jack Deere, Paul Cain and Wimber present their response to the findings in the Gruen Document to Gruen and his staff.  According to Wimber, “After several hours of discussion, Gruen agreed to stop his attacks against KCF and Paul Cain” promising to bring no new charges without contacting Wimber first.<sup>42</sup></p>
<p>According to a not unbiased article in <em>Charisma &amp; Christian Life</em>,<sup>43 </sup>later that day, at a KCF-sponsored conference, Wimber made a statement that he had begun to scrutinize the teachings of KCF, purportedly at Bickle’s request, “before Gruen had started his public questioning.”<sup>44  </sup>Interestingly, the article states, “They [Wimber and Gruen] had found only a couple areas of agreement”<sup>45 </sup>yet in Wimber&#8217;s own <em>Equipping the Saints</em> article he dogmatically declares the Gruen document is wholly untrue: </p>
<blockquote><p><em>After reading every line of Pastor Gruen’s document, listening to his tape, and interviewing as many people involved as possible, my staff and I are convinced that the accusations against Kansas City Fellowship and Paul Cain <span style="text-decoration:underline;">are untrue</span>.  I find <span style="text-decoration:underline;">no evidence that they teach heresy</span>; have an occultic spirit; have unethical practices; promote bizarre, unscriptural experiences; have cultlike tendencies or teachings; or use prophetic gifting to take over churches.</em><sup>46</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>After Wimber spoke, Bickle made his statement at the conference admitting the errors established in the 15 points/errors (which, as noted above, are essentially indicated in the Gruen Document) and “detailed mistakes made in reporting two prophecies that had been used to establish the legitimacy of KCF” claiming that “both prophecies were fulfilled” but “the later retelling of these fulfillments were exaggerated.”<sup>47</sup>  Were the “fulfillments” ‘merely’ “exaggerated” or were these “prophecies” actually fulfilled at all?  Of the two “prophecies” mentioned in the article, only the drought prophecy is discussed (identified in the Gruen Document as item I.A<sup>48</sup>) and this will be more completely analyzed in a subsequent article.</p>
<p>Five years later, while maintaining “that most of Gruen’s accusations were untrue,” Bickle would admit, “God was disciplining us for pride and some wrong ideas.” He continued, “If it hadn’t have been Ernie Gruen, God would have used someone else.  The message wouldn’t have gotten through to us if it had been kind.  It had to be tough.  We were wrong.”<sup>49</sup>  So, which was it?  Did “KCF and Vineyard” discover the KCF errors “prior to Ernie’s report,” as the preface to the ‘15 points/errors’ above indicated, or was it Gruen who provided the impetus to change?</p>
<p><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-1585" title="KCF-GM Leadership Conf June '90" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-gm-leadership-conf-june-90.jpg?w=300&#038;h=230" alt="" width="300" height="230" /></p>
<p>The conference referenced above in which Bickle &#8220;repented&#8221; was the “3<sup>rd</sup> Annual Grace Ministries Leadership Conference” held from Monday June 25<sup>th</sup> through Friday the 29<sup>th</sup> which was advertised in the “Grace Ministries Spring Catalog ’90.”  This catalog was most likely released prior to March 1<sup>st</sup> as the advertisement mentions this date as the beginning point to write for “conference brochure and registration forms.”  At the time of publishing, featured speakers were to be John Wimber, Paul Cain, Ralph Mahoney, Bob Jones, and Leonard Ravenhill, with “other speakers” listed as Bickle, Rick Joyner, Francis Frangipane, David Parker, David Ravenhill, “and other Grace Ministries team members.”  Presumably, the featured speakers were recognized as “leaders” given the title of the conference.  This is noted since Wimber was critical of Jones being in leadership and he stripped Jones of leadership status as part of the “corrections” made upon the KCF transition to MVF.  Thus, it is assumed that Jones did not speak at the conference. </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">July 1</span></strong>: Gruen sends a summary<img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-1686" title="gruen2" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/gruen2.jpg?w=231&#038;h=300" alt="" width="231" height="300" /> letter to John Wimber regarding the June 28 meeting.  Included is the promise to stop distributing the Gruen Document after July 30.  </p>
<p>Also in this letter, Gruen concedes some “points that could be disputed and argued” in the Gruen Document while affirming the “essential accuracy” of the Document.  The three concessions are; 1) the use of some testimonies as these “have the possibility of being totally true or…giving disgruntled people an opportunity to express their grievances;” 2) <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">completely exonerating Paul Cain of “any negative charges</span></strong>;” and, 3) the retraction of the story of a baby who died after receiving personal prophecy in his sermon of January 21 as the account has not been documented.  Point 2 is the most troubling as this seems to contradict the whole of item VI.H in the Gruen Document.  The whole of the contents of this section of the letter will be detailed in the <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/in-exonerating-paul-cain-is-the-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-invalidated/">second part of this article</a> with sections discussed in full. </p>
<p>As to the first point, Gruen “is careful not to say that the testimony of a disgruntled person is not true, but only that it could give opportunity to attack one’s ministry,” as noted by Dager.<sup>50</sup>  Personal testimonies can provide added weight to other evidence; so, testimonies are not to be wholly discounted as Gruen’s statement infers.  Gruen’s concession on this point was in part rather than <em>in toto</em>. </p>
<p>In this letter Gruen states </p>
<blockquote><p><em>While I do not regret releasing the documentation or preaching the original sermon, I do realize that I have caused pain to many individuals in the body of Christ.  I sincerely apologize for any unnecessary pain that I have caused.  We at Full Faith do not want to continue to cause pain or hurts.  We do not want a war with Vineyard or Kansas City Fellowship…</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>…[W]e release the entire situation of Kansas City Fellowship into your [Wimber’s] hands.  We recognize that it is not now our responsibility to provide either <span style="text-decoration:underline;">correction</span> or <span style="text-decoration:underline;">approval</span> of Kansas City Fellowship.  We believe that you are sincerely trying to bring the balance and correction that is needed.  We also understand that this will involve a process that will take some time.  We again wish to express our confidence in you, John, and state publicly that we completely and fully trust in your integrity.</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>…Ultimately the issue is in God’s hands.  His sovereignty is the final court of appeal.  He will bring to all of us the balance and correction that we need.  Because we believe in the sovereignty of God, we are willing to submit this whole controversy into His hands.  We give you permission to copy these pages as a unit, to use in any way you desire.</em><sup>51</sup>           </p></blockquote>
<p>Included as an enclosure with this two page letter are the 15 points above.  All three pages were to be sent with the Gruen Document to all those receiving the document from that time until July 30 (at which point the Document will no longer be distributed).  In addition, all who previously received the Document were to receive this notice.           </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">July 5</span></strong>: Gruen letter is released to be used as a cover for the July 1 letter and enclosure.  The legitimacy of both letters is evidenced by an extant copy of all 4 pages (July 5 letter, two page July 1 letter, plus one page enclosure) with a fax date/time stamp originating at Full Faith Church of Love-West (stamped “Jul-12-90” at 12:37-39).<sup>52</sup></p>
<p>Following is the letter in its entirety:           </p>
<blockquote><p><em>Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>As one of those who has received a copy of the [D]ocumentation of the Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship, or is <span style="text-decoration:underline;">now</span> receiving a copy of our documentation, enclosed is a copy of a letter I sent to John Wimber together with a statement to us from Vineyard Christian Fellowship concerning KCF.</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>This letter is the result of meetings with John Wimber and other leaders of Vineyard Fellowship, and a subsequent decision made by myself, the other Full Faith Church of Love pastors, and the elders of FFCL West.</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>KCF has now become part of the Vineyard association of churches.  We ask for your continued prayers for all those involved.</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>Sincerely,</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>Pastor Ernest J. Gruen </em><sup>53</sup>           </p></blockquote>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">July 9</span></strong>: “A Statement from Derek Prince” is released due to persistent questions posed to him regarding KCF.  Prince is very critical.  He recounts a conversation that he had with Mike Bickle in March of 1990 which is followed by his scathing assessment of KCF/GM:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>…At this time I was asked by Mike Bickle to counsel with him and some of his leaders.  I spent nearly three hours in discussion with them.  I told them that I felt they were receiving and propagating error.  Our meeting was conducted in a friendly spirit and ended with prayer, but no conclusion was reached.</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>Subsequent to this encounter, I studied [the Gruen Document]…It is based mainly on material published by Grace Ministries, or on transcripts of tapes made in Kansas City Fellowship which they themselves circulated.</em><em> </em></p>
<p><em>Very briefly, I can sum up the main conclusions I have reached:</em><em> </em></p>
<ol>
<li><em>      </em><em>The material circulated by Kansas City Fellowship contains many statements which have no basis in Scripture and are frequently <span style="text-decoration:underline;">contrary to Scripture</span>.  Some of the purported “revelations” could be described as absurd and even <span style="text-decoration:underline;">blasphemous</span>.</em><em> </em></li>
<li><em>      </em><em>Much of the material is permeated by what I consider to be <span style="text-decoration:underline;">occult influence</span>.</em><em> </em></li>
<li><em>      </em><em>The overall affect of the material is to <span style="text-decoration:underline;">divert attention away from Jesus Christ and the Scriptures and toward subjective experiences and human personalities</span>.</em><em> </em></li>
<li><em>     </em><em>The circulation of the material from Kansas City Fellowship has exposed the Body of Christ to <span style="text-decoration:underline;">much error and confusion</span>.</em><em> </em></li>
<li><em>     </em><em>These <span style="text-decoration:underline;">errors are deep-rooted</span> and longstanding, dating at least as far back as 1983.</em><em> </em></li>
</ol>
<p><em>Any effective remedy would require open confession and renunciation of the errors practiced and a radical elimination of the occult element.  All this should be communicated as widely as the errors have been circulated.  A mere change of label or of leadership, by itself, is not sufficient.</em><sup>54</sup>           </p></blockquote>
<p>Prince goes on to stress that it’s the “<span style="text-decoration:underline;">doctrines</span> and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">practices</span>” and not the individuals he is judging.  He continues: </p>
<blockquote><p><em>…We are living in a period when it is more important than ever for all of us to cultivate “the love of the truth.” (See 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.)</em><sup>55</sup> </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, Derek Prince was part of the “shepherding” controversy; however, his words and advice here are spot on!           </p>
<p>-          <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">July (specific date unknown)</span></strong>: Albert James Dager releases <em>Vengeance is Ours: The Church in Dominion</em> which incorporates and expands on the Special Report released on April 23<sup>rd</sup> in a chapter titled “Who Are the Apostles and Prophets?”<sup>56</sup></p>
<p>In a letter sent out in July to those on Dager’s <em>Media Spotlight</em> mailing list in which Dager announces his book, he also mentions a forthcoming Special Report on Vineyard.<sup>57  </sup>This report, released in August, contained two articles.  One was authored by John Goodwin, a former associate of Wimber at Vineyard, while the other was another update on Dager’s April 23<sup>rd</sup> Special Report discussing Gruen’s July 1 letter including an analysis on Gruen’s exoneration of Paul Cain.    </p>
<p>The Cain exoneration by Gruen will be examined in detail in the <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/in-exonerating-paul-cain-is-the-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-invalidated/">second part of this article</a>.  And, as noted above, the ‘drought prophecy’ will be fully analyzed as well.</p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>1</sup> Buckingham, Jamie “Buckingham Report” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Ministries Today</span></em>. May/June 1990, Vol. 8 No. 3; p 22.  Question mark &#8220;(?)&#8221; after &#8220;God&#8221; in original.<br />
<sup>2 </sup>Jackson, Bill <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Quest for the Radical Middle</span></em>. 1999, Vineyard International Publishers, Ladysmith, Cape Town, South Africa; p 211.  Confusingly, at least one subsequent “Re-published” issue has different page numberings.  The 2<sup>nd</sup> issue was Re-published in 2000 as VIP, Cape Town with the same page numbering as the first edition; whereas, the 2010 “Re-published for Amazon” issue (VIP, Cape Town also) has different page numberings.  This particular reference is on page 202.  Hereafter, all page references will reference the earlier edition followed by the later one, e.g.: p 211 / 202.<br />
<sup>3</sup> Buckingham, Jamie “Buckingham Report” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Ministries Today</span></em>. July/August 1990, Vol. 8 No. 4; p 22<br />
<sup>4</sup> Gruen letter to Mike Bickle dated March 30 states Bickle’s letter is from January 22, 1990.  This letter is included in the Gruen Document.  [Gruen, Ernie &amp; John J. Arnold, et. al. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation of the Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries)</span>.</em> May 1990, self-published, Shawnee, KS; p 35 / &lt;<a href="http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/kcp/Abberent%20Practises.pdf">http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/kcp/Abberent%20Practises.pdf</a>&gt; pdf prepared for online posting by Tricia Tillin (Booth) p 28 [hereafter listed as pdf p # / booklet p #].    However, Wimber [Wimber, John “A Response to Pastor Ernie Gruen’s Controversy with Kansas City Fellowship”<em> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Equipping the Saints</span></em>. Fall 1990, Special UK Edition, p 3] identifies the date of Bickle’s letter as January 29.<br />
<sup>5</sup> Gruen <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 28 / 35<br />
<sup>6</sup> Wimber “A Response” p 3.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>7</sup> Grady, Lee “Resolving the Kansas City Prophecy Controversy” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Ministries Today</span></em>. September/October 1990, Vol 8 No. 5; p 50.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>8</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. pp 154-55 / 149<br />
<sup>9</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. pp 154-55 / 149-50<br />
<sup>10</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span>. </em>pp 154-57, 170ftnt / 149-52, 164ftnt<br />
<sup>11</sup> Letter on file; emphasis added<br />
<sup>12</sup> Letter included in Gruen <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. pp 28-9 / 36. Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>13</sup> Buckingham, “Report” July/August 1990; p 22<br />
<sup>14</sup> Letter included in Gruen <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 30 / 37.  Emphasis in original.<br />
<sup>15</sup> Grady, “Resolving Kansas City” p 51<br />
<sup>16</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. pp 217-18 / 207-08<br />
<sup>17</sup> Wimber, “A Response to Gruen” p 3<br />
<sup>18</sup> Dager, Albert James “Latter-Day Prophets: The Kansas City Connection”<em> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Media Spotlight</span></em>. Special Report, April 23, 1990, Media Spotlight, Redmond,WA; pp 4-5<br />
<sup>19</sup> Dager, Albert James <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance is Ours: The Church in Dominion</span></em>. July 1990, Sword Publishers,Redmond,WA; p 128<br />
<sup>20</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. p 217 / 207<br />
<sup>21</sup> Grady, “Resolving Kansas City” p 51<br />
<sup>22</sup> Buckingham, “Report” July/August 1990; pp 22-3<br />
<sup>23</sup> Dager, “Kansas City Connection” p 4 referencing Lambert, Steve &#8221;Shiloh: A Prophetic Sanctuary&#8221; <span style="text-decoration:underline;"><em>Grace City Report </em></span>. Special Ed., Fall 1989, p 11.  Also Dager. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>. pp 128-29.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>24</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. p 7 / pp 3-4<br />
<sup>25</sup> Buckingham, “Report” July/August 1990; p 23.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>26</sup> Buckingham, Jamie. “Afterword” in Pytches, David. <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Some Said it Thundered</span></em>. 1991, Oliver Nelson, Nashville, TN; p 148<br />
<sup>27</sup> Buckingham, “Afterword” in Pytches <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Some Said it Thundered</span></em>. pp 145-54.  Contains both May/June and July/August 1990 articles with alterations and some additional commentary.<br />
<sup>28</sup> Buckingham, “Afterword” in Pytches; p 148.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>29</sup> Grady, J. Lee “Kansas City Churches Reconciled”<em> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Charisma</span></em>. July 1993, Vol. 18 No. 12; p 54<br />
<sup>30</sup> Grady, “Kansas City Churches Reconciled”<em> </em>p 54<br />
<sup>31</sup> Grady, “Resolving Kansas City” p 51<br />
<sup>32</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. p 217 / 207<br />
<sup>33</sup> Grady, ”Resolving Kansas City” p 51<br />
<sup>34</sup> Buckingham, “Report” July/August 1990; p 23<br />
<sup>35</sup> Buckingham, “Report” July/August 1990; p 23.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>36</sup> Alexander, Noel <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Grace City Report</span></em>  Special Edition, Fall 1989; p 14 as quoted in Dager, “Kansas City Connection” p 4<br />
<sup>37</sup> Alnor, William &amp; Robert Lyle. “Controversial Prophetic Movement is Incorporated Into the Vineyard” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Christian Research Journal</span></em>. Fall 1990, © 1994 Christian Research Institute, San Juan Capistrano, CA; p 5 / &lt;<a href="http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/crj0044a.txt">http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/crj0044a.txt</a>&gt;; par 4; as accessed 10/01/11<br />
<sup>38</sup> Jackson, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radical Middle</span></em>. p 212 / 202<br />
<sup>39</sup> van der Merwe (Grewe), Jewel <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Discernment Newsletter</span></em>. “False Prophets” May 1990, Vol. 1 No. 1 <a href="http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1990May-FirstEdition.pdf">http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1990May-FirstEdition.pdf</a>&gt;; “A New Breed” June 1990, Vol. 1 No. 2 &lt;<a href="http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1990Jun.pdf">http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1990Jun.pdf</a>&gt;; as accessed 10/01/11.  Presumably, this ministry was started as a direct result of the controversies surrounding KCF and KCP.<br />
<sup>40</sup> Wimber, “A Response to Gruen” p 27<br />
<sup>41</sup> “15 points” on file as enclosure to July 1, 1990 letter to John Wimber from Ernie Gruen.  Obviously, this originated with Wimber or Deere, but, presumably, the inclusion of this with the July 1 letter was a joint decision of Wimber/Deere/Cain with Gruen and staff.<br />
<sup>42</sup> Wimber, “A Response to Gruen” p 27<br />
<sup>43</sup> “Truce Called in Bickle Controversy” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Charisma &amp; Christian Life</span></em>. September 1990, Vol 16 No. 2; p 42.  The article only once refers to the Gruen Document as “public questioning” in paraphrasing Wimber with the balance instead using such verbiage as “accusers,” “leveled charges,” and “printed a book of accusations.”  More importantly, the author misquotes Gruen claiming he “acknowledged that he had no authority to question or examine the validity of KCF’s teachings and practices” which is misleading.  The July 1, 1990 letter which came about as a result of this June 28 meeting stated, “We recognize that it is not <strong><em>now</em></strong> our responsibility to provide either <span style="text-decoration:underline;">correction</span> or <span style="text-decoration:underline;">approval</span> of Kansas City Fellowship” because Gruen and staff had released “the entire situation” into Wimber’s hands while noting that the issue is actually “in God’s hands.” [bolding/italics added for emphasis; underscore in original]  Author not known.<br />
<sup>44</sup> “Truce Called” p 42<br />
<sup>45</sup> “Truce Called” p 42<br />
<sup>46</sup> Wimber, “A Response to Gruen” p 30.  Also recorded in Jackson p 218 / 208.  Emphasis added.<br />
<sup>47</sup> “Truce Called” p 42<br />
<sup>48</sup> Gruen, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Documentation</span></em>. pp 41-42 / 53-56<br />
<sup>49</sup> Grady, J. Lee “Kansas City Churches Mend Rift” <span style="text-decoration:underline;"><em>Charisma &amp; Christian Life</em></span>. September 1995, Vol. 21 No. 2; p 34<br />
<sup>50</sup> Dager, Albert James “Latter-Day Prophets: The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets and the Kansas City-Vineyard Connection” <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Media Spotlight</span></em>. Special Report, August 1990,Redmond, WA; p 16<br />
<sup>51</sup> Letter on Full Faith Church of Love-West stationery on file including enclosure.  Underscore in original.<br />
<sup>52</sup> July 5 letter and July 1 letter and enclosure with fax date/time stamp on file.<br />
<sup>53</sup> Letter on Full Faith Church of Love-West stationery on file.  Underscore in original.<br />
<sup>54</sup> Prince, Derek “A Statement from Derek Prince” pp 1-2.  On file.  All emphasis added except “doctrines” and “practices” in which underscore is in original.<br />
<sup>55</sup> Prince,“A Statement”<em> </em>p 2<br />
<sup>56</sup> Dager, <em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vengeance</span></em>.<br />
<sup>57</sup> Letter on file.</span></span></p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/antichrist/'>antichrist</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/association-of-vineyard-churches/'>Association of Vineyard Churches</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bob-jones/'>Bob Jones</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/earl-paulk/'>Earl Paulk</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/ernie-gruen/'>Ernie Gruen</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/gnosticism/'>Gnosticism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/ihop/'>IHOP</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/international-house-of-prayer/'>International House of Prayer</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/jack-deere/'>Jack Deere</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/joels-army/'>Joel's Army</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/john-wimber/'>John Wimber</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/kansas-city-prophets/'>Kansas City Prophets</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/mike-bickle/'>Mike Bickle</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-breed/'>New Breed</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/paul-cain/'>Paul Cain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/prophet/'>Prophet</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/apostle-2/'>apostle</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/association-of-vineyard-churches/'>Association of Vineyard Churches</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bob-jones/'>Bob Jones</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/david-parker/'>David Parker</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/david-ravenhill/'>David Ravenhill</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/derek-prince/'>Derek Prince</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ernest-gruen/'>Ernest Gruen</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ernie-gruen/'>Ernie Gruen</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/esoteric/'>esoteric</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/francis-frangipane/'>Francis Frangipane</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/grace-ministries/'>Grace Ministries</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/heresy/'>Heresy</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/jack-deere/'>Jack Deere</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/jamie-buckingham/'>Jamie Buckingham</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/john-wimber/'>John Wimber</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/kansas-city-fellowship/'>Kansas City Fellowship</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/kcf/'>KCF</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/lee-grady/'>Lee Grady</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/leonard-ravenhill/'>Leonard Ravenhill</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/metro-vineyard-christian-fellowship/'>Metro Vineyard Christian Fellowship</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/metro-vineyard-fellowship/'>Metro Vineyard Fellowship</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/mike-bickel/'>Mike Bickel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/mike-bickle/'>Mike Bickle</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/mvf/'>MVF</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/paul-cain/'>Paul Cain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/prophecy/'>prophecy</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/prophets/'>prophets</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ralph-mahoney/'>Ralph Mahoney</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/rick-joyner/'>Rick Joyner</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/signs-and-wonders/'>signs and wonders</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1658/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=1658&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/did-ernie-gruen-recant-his-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-regarding-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>10</slash:comments>
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-gm-discontinued-media.jpg?w=300" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">KCF-GM discontinued media</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/gruen3.jpg?w=231" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">gruen3</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-gm-leadership-conf-june-90.jpg?w=300" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">KCF-GM Leadership Conf June &#039;90</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/gruen2.jpg?w=231" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">gruen2</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Your Assistance Requested: Seeking Original Audio/Video of Kansas City Fellowship/Grace Ministries</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/your-assistance-requested-seeking-original-audiovideo-of-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/your-assistance-requested-seeking-original-audiovideo-of-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 01:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bob Jones]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gnosticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IHOP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[International House of Prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joel's Army]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Paul Jackson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Wimber]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kansas City Prophets]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leonard Ravenhill]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manifest Sons of God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mike Bickle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Apostolic Reformation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Breed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paul Cain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rick Joyner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Anaheim Vineyard]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bob Scott]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[David Parker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[David Ravenhill]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ed Pioreck]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ernie Gruen]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Francis Frangipane]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gary Schmitz]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grace Ministries]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heresy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jim Goll]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[KCF]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[KCP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Metro Vineyard Fellowship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Michael Sullivant]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Noel Alexander]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[occult]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophetic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Reuven Doron]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs and wonders]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stadium Vision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Terry Virgo]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=1225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“…The deep conviction of my heart is that we have, in Kansas City, the beginnings of a Charismatic heresy which is far more significant than the shepherding controversy.  I believe that this could split the body of Christ and cause untold damage to tens of thousands of Christians, as well as hundreds of churches across [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=1225&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p align="center"><em>“…The deep conviction of my heart is that we have, in Kansas City, the beginnings of a Charismatic heresy which is far more significant than the shepherding controversy.  I believe that this could split the body of Christ and cause untold damage to tens of thousands of Christians, as well as hundreds of churches across America.”</em></p>
<p align="right"><em>- Ernie Gruen, January 21, 1990 “Do We Keep Smiling and Say Nothing”</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>The former Kansas City Fellowship (KCF), aka Grace Ministries, in Kansas City, Missouri was founded and pastored by Mike Bickle in 1982 who now leads the <a href="http://www.ihop.org/">International House of Prayer</a> (IHOP) in the same city.  KCF was embroiled in controversy centering around the teachings and practices of Bickle and the so-called Kansas City Prophets (Bob Jones, Paul Cain and John Paul Jackson) resulting from a tape  <a href="http://www.archive.org/details/DoWeKeepSmilingAndSayNothingErnieGruenJan201990">“Do We Keep Smiling and Say Nothing?”</a> circulated in January 1990 and a subsequent published document in May of the same year titled <a href="http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/kcp/Abberent%20Practises.pdf">“Documentation of Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries)”</a>  both by the late Ernest J. Gruen, then Senior Pastor of Full Faith Church of Love–West in Shawnee, Kansas.  This document referenced and transcribed tapes distributed by KCF/Grace Ministries and other KCF/GM printed materials.</p>
<p>John Wimber of Anaheim (California) Vineyard was brought in to bring “correction” and guidance to KCF resulting in the name changing to Metro Vineyard Christian Fellowship on May 12, 1990 as the church fell under the umbrella of the Association of Vineyard Churches (AVC).<sup>1</sup></p>
<div class="mceTemp">
<div id="attachment_1248" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 106px"><img class="size-thumbnail wp-image-1248" title="kcF cat 90-1" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-cat-90-13.jpg?w=96&#038;h=150" alt="" width="96" height="150" /><p class="wp-caption-text">Grace Ministries Spring Catalog &#039;90 front</p></div>
<p>I have recently received some material from the KCF days including a giant fold-out [17” x 23.5” double-sided] Grace Ministries “Spring Catalog ‘90” listing audio cassettes (single and multiple sets), a few videos, and some books.  It also includes listings of music by Julie Meyer as far back as 1986. </p>
</div>
<p>The catalog features material from Bickle, Jones, Cain, J. P. Jackson, Rick Joyner, Francis Frangipane, Leonard Ravenhill (including conferences with him alongside some of the others – a surprise for me), David Ravenhill, David Parker, Noel Alexander, Michael Sullivant, Wimber, Bob Scott, Terry Virgo, Jim Goll, Gary Schmitz, Reuven Doron and Ed Pioreck.  The descriptions accompanying the individual items illustrates the relationships between and among these individuals at the time providing an interesting historical snapshot.  I will refrain from making any commentary in the body of the texts below as I want the texts to reflect as closely as possible the original catalog and I don’t wish to detract from them.  </p>
<p>In addition, apparently distributed and accompanying the catalog itself around the time of this controversy was a separate plain sheet of paper which states “PLEASE READ CAREFULLY BEFORE ORDERING” with handwritten “FROM GRACE MINISTRIES” and “JUNE 1990”:</p>
<blockquote><p>“The following tapes have been discontinued since this catalog was printed and are not available at this time.  We’re sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused for you.”</p></blockquote>
<p> <img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-1255" title="KCF-GM discontinued media" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-gm-discontinued-media.jpg?w=300&#038;h=220" alt="" width="300" height="220" /></p>
<p>While the date could conceivably have been written by anyone and therefore not necessarily be accurate, the timing does make sense in view of the then current controversy given that a number of these “discontinued” tapes were transcribed and excerpted in the 233 page spiral-bound Gruen document.  If accurate, this would likely be part of the “correction” John Wimber was bringing to KCF. </p>
<p>Paul Cain had been associated with KCF since 1987.  Wimber had Paul Cain speak at his Anaheim Vineyard church at least as far back as December, 1988; so, presumably, Wimber should have already been familiar with the teachings and “prophecies” of Cain before KCF’s transition to MVCF (known more commonly as Metro Vineyard Fellowship or MVF).   <a href="http://www.paulcain.org/sandbox/newsite/pages/home.html">Paul Cain’s website</a> has an <a href="http://www.paulcain.org/sandbox/newsite/pages/Stadium%20vision/stadiumvision.html">audio of his Anaheim Vineyard &#8220;Stadium Vision&#8221;</a> “Joel’s Army” prophecy taken from the “Spiritual Warfare Conference” of February,<sup>2</sup> 1989.  [A <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwHOBgk8igE">YouTube version</a> (with overdubbed music) is also currently available.]  Yet it was Wimber who was brought in for “correction.”</p>
<p>The “discontinued” items include all the Bob Jones material (save for some included in the multiple sets featuring multiple speakers) yet Jones was apparently still in “ministry” after this – at least up until his discipline and removal discussed in a letter dated November 7, 1991 for “using his gifts to manipulate people for his personal desires, sexual misconduct, rebelling against pastoral authority, slandering leaders and the promotion of bitterness within the body of Christ.”  He was apparently in a leadership position at that time as evidenced by this same letter written by Wimber regarding Jones’ “serious sin” according to the words beginning this letter: “When a leader falls into sin…”<sup>3</sup> If the content of Jones’ tapes were presumably so damaging to KCF/MVF that they had to be pulled from distribution, why was he still in leadership?</p>
<p>In a letter dated November 4, 1991 written to MVF and signed by Jones on Metro Vineyard Fellowship letterhead is the following excerpt:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>In recent months, I have manipulated certain people for selfish reasons on the basis of my prophetic gifting.  I have been guilty of sexual misconduct, and I deeply regret this.  (I have not committed adultery).</em></p>
<p><em>I deeply resented the published restraints placed upon me in my ministry by John Wimber in July 1990, and this resentment created an imbalance in my reasoning ability.  Now I believe that these restraints were right.</em><sup>4</sup></p></blockquote>
<p>Exactly which “restraints” were put on him given he was still a “leader” according to Wimber’s letter?</p>
<p>In the International House of Prayer’s <a href="http://ihopcontent.ihop.org/ihopcntnt/endis/FreeMP3s/Encountering_Jesus_D1.mp3">“Encountering Jesus”</a> series, a history including the KCF days, Mike Bickle had this to say about Jones and Cain, “The two men that have been my spiritual fathers in different ways and at different times &#8212; Bob Jones and Paul Cain.  When I look over my 30 years plus of walking with the Lord those two men are significantly, clearly I would have to call my spiritual fathers through all these years.”  And, he goes on to claim, “And, Bob Jones, from ’82 to ’92, from those 10 years, I had nearly daily communication with Bob…”<sup>5</sup> Clearly, the history of KCF/MVF is of historic importance.</p>
<p>The tapes excerpted in the Gruen document and other KCF-associated tapes have been referenced quite a bit in various sources.  Some of the audio has been digitized with full and partial transcripts existing.  However, not all of these are readily available for the researcher and hence my desire to collect these.  The Grace Ministries catalog aids immensely in the search as it provides catalog numbers, titles and in many cases descriptions of contents.  If you have any of the following items, please contact me privately here:</p>
[contact-form]
<p>Following is the complete list of all the tapes included in the catalog (not included are the books and music which are on the back side of the original catalog along with an order form) even though I’m not sure I would want <strong><em>all</em></strong><em> </em>of the material as some is redundant.  I’ve listed first those items in the separate “discontinued” list – as I deem these of higher importance – with notes (when available) from the larger catalog for explanation.  I’ve changed the order of the &#8220;discontinued&#8221; list by grouping tapes by speaker for (hopefully) easier reference.  Following the contents of “Spring Catalog ‘90”, which are categorized in the same order as the catalog itself, are some tapes and teaching papers listed in the Gruen document which are not included in this catalog.</p>
<h4 style="text-align:center;"><strong><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Discontinued Items</span></em></strong><strong><em>:</em></strong></h4>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Grace</span></strong><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;"> Ministries</span></strong><strong>:</strong></p>
<p>A4PHG            The Prophetic History of Grace Ministries – <em>This four tape series is by far our best seller.  This is the album that is often simply referred to as “the history tapes”.  Unfortunately, the audio recording quality of the original masters is poor, but the content is the reason we have sold so many of these albums.  Mike Bickle recalls and describes both the miraculous events as well as the discouragements and setbacks that surrounded the establishing of Grace Ministries in Kansas City.</em></p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bob Jones</span></strong><strong>:</strong></p>
<p>V1BJI              Video-Interview With Bob Jones – <em>This five hour interview was recorded during the Celebration Feast in May of 1988.  Mike Bickle talks with Bob Jones for approximately five hours covering a wide variety of topics ranging from angelic visitations to demonic deliverance. </em></p>
<p>A4BJV             Bob Jones Visions and Revelations – <em>This four tape series was recorded over three evenings in September, 1988.  Kansas City Fellowship pastors interview Bob Jones for nearly five hours about recent visions and revelations.  Among other things, Bob discusses what believers are doing in the eighties (both positive and negative) that will determine how God will be able to use them in the nineties.</em></p>
<p>A4BJI              An Interview with Bob Jones – four tapes [see V1BJI above for description]<em></em></p>
<p>60608              Personal Testimony<br />
81231               Heaven &amp; Hell<br />
90226              Rest In His Mercy &amp; Grace<br />
91010              Shepherd’s Rod Oct. ‘89</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Paul Cain</span></strong><strong>:</strong></p>
<p>V2IPC              Video-Interview with Paul Cain – <em>This two hour video was recorded during the Celebration Feast in May of 1988.  Mike Bickle talks with Paul Cain about his personal testimony, his early days of ministry in his teens and his tent ministry and healing revivals in the 1950’s.</em></p>
<p>70512              Personal Testimony<br />
70628              Joel’s Army<br />
70629              7 Spirits of God<br />
70929              Our Father’s House<br />
71001              A New Breed</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Mike Bickle</span></strong><strong>:</strong></p>
<p>30510              Intercession with Angels Da. 10</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">John Paul Jackson</span></strong><strong>:</strong></p>
<p>JPJCC               Being Conformed to Christ: Taproot of End Time Prophetic Events</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noel Alexander</span></strong><strong>:</strong></p>
<p>90326              An Intercessory Vow</p>
<p>The remaining includes the rather lengthy list remaining on the “Spring Catalog ’90.” It is possible that individual tapes have been separated from the multi-tape sets yet are identified individually with catalog numbers or names corresponding to the single tapes – yet another reason I wish to have complete descriptions which sometimes includes individual titles within a series/album [noted in the following by underlining].  Care was made to transcribe exactly as written including grammatical errors and such, but I did not want to detract from the overall content by marking these errors with the usual “[sic]”; however, it’s certainly possible I’ve made some mistakes of my own.  Specific items from the discontinued list above will be denoted with an asterisk (*) with no further descriptions rather than duplicating the above.  I’ve omitted prices and moved the catalog number to the beginning of each item for easier reference. </p>
<div class="mceTemp mceIEcenter">
<div id="attachment_1239" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 310px"><img class="size-medium wp-image-1239" title="KCF cat 90-2" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-cat-90-21.jpg?w=300&#038;h=226" alt="" width="300" height="226" /><p class="wp-caption-text">Spring Catalog &#039;90 center spread</p></div>
</div>
<h4 align="center"><strong><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Audio Tape Albums</span></em></strong><strong><em>:</em></strong></h4>
<p>A7TFM            Experiencing The Father’s Mercy – <em>These seven tapes by Mike Bickle on God’s mercy and grace, reveal the never-ending compassion of the Father’s heart toward His children when they’re sincerely trying to grow, yet often find themselves falling short.  This message has helped many believers overcome the discouragement of personal failure and learn to entrust their lives to the Father without reservation.  Titles includes: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Tender Mercies of David</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">His Mercy Endureth Forever</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Elijah: Loving Mercy</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Compassion of God</span> and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Mercy That Leads to Righteousness</span>.</em></p>
<p>A8PIJ               Pursuing Intimacy with Jesus – <em>Mike Bickle shares with passionate insight on the splendor and majesty of the person of Christ Jesus.  Mike goes on to elaborate on the importance and relevance of that knowledge to both the individual and the church.  Titles in this eight tape series include: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">An Old Testament Love Song to Jesus</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Glorious Man Christ Jesus</span> and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Revival of Intimacy</span>.</em></p>
<p>A6PEM            Your Personal Eternity in the Making – <em>This six tape album by Mike Bickle develops the often overlooked theme of eternal rewards, judgment and evaluation for the born-again believer.  Mike challenges the listener to make a realistic reappraisal of this life and values, in light of eternity.  Titles in this album include: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Eternal Rewards for Good Works</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Judgment Seat of Christ</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Six types of Eternal Rewards </span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Eternal Rewards According to Motives and Ministry</span>.</em></p>
<p>A5CSH            Cultivating Spiritual Hunger – <em>This five tape series is for those who long to gain spiritual ground, but lack the motivation to begin the journey.  In his practical down-to-earth style, Mike Bickle offers helpful insights and encouragement for every believer who longs to increase his desire to seek the Lord.</em></p>
<p>A4PCT             Paul Cain’s Life Testimony – <em>This four tape series was taken from the video tape series recorded in early 1990.  Paul covers material ranging from his grandmother, and mother, his childhood, his early years in ministry, the “silent years,” his current ministry and a prophetic look at the future. </em>AVAILABLE <span style="text-decoration:underline;">AFTER</span> 4-1-90</p>
<p>A5ROW           Revelation of Worship – <em>Mike Bickle stirs the spirit of the believer to new depths of worship by expounding various themes on the topic from the book of Revelation.  In this five tape series Mike paints a vivid image of the never-ending worship which surrounds the throne of God.  Mike, as always, offers some very practical how-to’s on the subject of worship as well.  Titles include: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Foundation of Worship</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Prophetic Worship</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Understanding Worship – Rev 4</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Worship: Revelation of the Throne of God</span>.</em></p>
<p>A6GTT            Growing Through Personal Trials – <em>In this six tape series Mike Bickle offers encouragement for those who are struggling with circumstances, disappointments and injustices in their personal lives.  Mike brings into perspective the spiritual gains to be made through perseverance, and overcoming those trials.  Titles include: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Perplexity in the Ways of God</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Job: Patience in Trials</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Job and God’s Integrity</span>.</em></p>
<p>A5PGG            Preparation to Experience God’s Glory – <em>In this five tape series Mike Bickle explains the relationship between God’s presence and His judgment.  These essential truths will have increasing relevance in the days ahead, as the Lord’s anointing is poured out upon the earth.  Using Exodus 32-34 as an example, Mike teaches the higher accountability which accompanies the greater manifestation of His presence.</em></p>
<p>A6PFD             Practical Foundations For Devotional Prayer – <em>This brand new 6 tape series from Mike Bickle includes: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Principles of Beholding the Lord</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Developing a Vocabulary in Prayer</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Mary of Bethany: Wasting Your Life</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Principles of Spiritual Hunger</span>, and two other messages which will challenge the believer to lavish their life upon Jesus.</em></p>
<p>A16SW            Spiritual Warfare Conference – <em>This 16 volume set includes messages by Bob Jones, Rick Joyner, Francis Frangipane, David Ravenhill, David Parker, and Michael Sullivant.  Messages include: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Apostolic Standard</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Identifying Principalities</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pulling Down Strongholds</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Binding the Strongman</span>.</em></p>
<p>A7SFI              School For Intercessors – <em>This 7 tape series by Mike Bickle was given at the Vineyard in Anaheim California in April, 1989.  It is, without doubt, Mike’s most thorough and comprehensive teaching on the subject to date.  Mike lays out both the theology and the practical “how-to’s” of intercession, dealing realistically with the obstacles to developing corporate intercession.</em></p>
<p>A4PCN            Paul Cain November ’88 – <em>Paul draws upon more than four decades of prophetic ministry in sharing three messages about God’s purposes in this generation.  Included in this series is: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Given As a Token</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Behold I Will Come Quickly</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">My Father’s House</span>.  Paul describes one of his many personal encounters with God in which the Lord speaks of His longing for a group of men and women who will make Jesus their “magnificent obsession.”  Also included in this set is a fourth tape which contains Paul Cain’s dramatic personal testimony.</em></p>
<p>A6PPP             Power Purity &amp; the Prophetic – <em>This six tape set was given by Paul Cain in May of 1989.  In includes: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Original Extract</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Extracting the Precious From the Vile</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">A Picture of the Church in America</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Dwelling Place of God</span>, and a remarkable two tape set entitled <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Principles For the Prophetic Ministry</span> in which Paul talks about the specific how’s of the prophetic ministry.</em></p>
<p>A8LRI             Leonard Ravenhill: Intercession and Revival – <em>This eight tape series embodies the wisdom and passion formed during the more than 60 years of full-time ministry.  Leonard Ravenhill delivers a stirring message for holiness, revival and intercessory prayer.  Included in this series is: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">A Vision for an Unsaved World, Be Strong and Do Exploits</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">A Living Hope Through the Resurrection</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Excellency of Knowing God</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Repent! Repent! Repent!</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Give Me Souls or I Die</span>.</em></p>
<p>A4BJI*</p>
<p>A4BJV*</p>
<p>A8FLC             Leadership Conference: Fall ’88 – <em>Team members discuss the evolving strategy and emerging network of Grace Ministries.  This eight tape series includes: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Builders of Strategy</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Why and How of Team Life</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Strategy for Reaching a City and It’s Region</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Grace Ministries Network</span>.  Also included in this series is a tape of worship, prayer and prophecy as well as two tapes featuring Bob Jones entitled: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bob Jones: Questions and Answers</span> and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bob Jones on Pastors and Prophets</span>.</em></p>
<p>A32SL             Leadership Conference: Spring ’89 – <em>This remarkable set of 24 tapes includes material by Mike Bickle, Bob Jones, Leonard Ravenhill, Reuven Doron, Francis Frangipane.  Rick Joyner, David Parker, Noel Alexander and others.  More than 2000 leaders from across America, and beyond, gathered for this series of meetings.</em></p>
<p>A6FHS             Fellowshipping with the Holy Spirit – <em>This six tape series by Mike Bickle was recorded over a three month period in late 1982 and early 1983.  These were some of the very first messages ever spoken at Kansas City Fellowship and are still very popular.  In this set Mike builds a solid foundation on which all other ministry must come forth.  Mike teaches, as have others through the ages, that the secret of enjoying the Lord through personal fellowship is the basis for a triumphant life and fruitful ministry.  Mike’s practical “how-to’s” have made this series a best seller.</em></p>
<p>A4WOG          The Ways of God – <em>In this four tape series Mike Bickle covers some of the most fundamental precepts about the nature of God and his relationship to man.  Titles in this album include: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Fatherhood of God</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">A Testimony of Pleasing God</span>,<span style="text-decoration:underline;"> How a Loving God Can Send Men to Hell</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Knowledge of Acceptance</span>.</em></p>
<p>A3POP             The Perils of Perfectionism – <em>Mike Bickle taught this three tape series in 1987 and it has remained popular ever since.  Mike carefully probes the issue of perfectionism among believers, presenting a biblical balance between a godly desire to give Him our best, versus an ungodly anxiety that restrains us because of our fear of failure.  So many Christians find themselves doing too little in the Kingdom of God because their natural parents or others taught them that if they can’t do it perfectly it’s not acceptable.  This series challenges that myth and encourages believers to step out in faith and give the Lord their best.</em></p>
<p>A4CTH            A Call to Holiness – <em>Noel Alexander shares a resounding call to that rare but precious life of holiness entitled <span style="text-decoration:underline;">End Times Holiness</span>.  Mike Bickle then offers some of his best practical “how-to’s” on the subject on three other tapes entitled: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Walking Free From Adultery and Fornication</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;"> and Taming the Tongue (part 1 &amp; 2)</span>.</em></p>
<p>A4JOG            The Judgment of God – <em>In this four tape album Mike Bickle identifies and teaches on three areas that can lead a believer into God’s judgment.  As always, Mike’s teaching is thoroughly biblical and full of practical ideas that can be applied to a Christian’s daily walk.  Titles included in this series are: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Criticism and the Judgment of God</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Tithing and the Judgment of God</span>, and a two part message entitled <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Immortality and the Judgment of God</span>.</em></p>
<p>A4THS            The Holy Spirit – <em>This four tape series of foundational teachings by Mike Bickle includes: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Ministering the Baptism of the Holy Spirit</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Understanding the Gift of Tongues (Part 1 &amp; 2)</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bestowing the Holy Spirit</span>.  Mike addresses these topics from a thoroughly biblical perspective with a candid discussion about why the role of the Holy Spirit has been the subject of so much controversy within the church.  Mike encourages believers to do more than just “receive” the Holy Spirit, but to actually begin utilizing the gifts in their daily walk.</em></p>
<p>A4IIP               An Introduction to Intercessory Prayer – <em>This set of four tapes is basic to the Grace Ministries vision and calling.  Mike Bickle shares two messages entitled: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Understanding Intercessory Ministry Teams</span> and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Seven Intercessory and Devotional Prayers</span>.  Also in this album are two messages by Noel Alexander including: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Time for the Watchmen has Come</span> and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Power of United Prayer and Fasting</span>.</em></p>
<p>A8CC1            Grace Ministries Commitment Classes: Vol. 1 – <em>This volume contains the first 8 of the 13 recently revised and updated 1989 commitment classes which are taught at Kansas City Fellowship.  Mike Bickle’s topics include: <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Wineskin and Values of Grace Ministries</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Overall Vision and Structure of Grace Ministries</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Local Vision and Structure of Kansas City Fellowship</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Heart Standards and Ministry Style</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Kingdom and the End Times</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Apostolic Gospel and God’s Eternal Purpose</span>, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Nature of the Local Church</span>, and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Spiritual Authority and Eldership</span>.</em></p>
<p>A5CC2            Grace Ministries Commitment Classes: Vol. 2 – <em>This five volume set will complete the revised and updated 1989 Commitment Class series with tapes 9 through 13.<strong>  This series will not be complete or available until approximately July 1, 1990</strong>. </em></p>
<p>A4PHG*</p>
<p>A10P2             Prophecy II Conference – Vineyard – <em>This 10 tape series from July 1989 at the Vineyard in Anaheim, California features Paul Cain, Mike Bickle, Bob Jones and John Paul Jackson</em>.</p>
<h4 align="center"><strong><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Single Tapes</span></em></strong><strong><em>:</em></strong></h4>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Mike Bickle</span>:</strong></p>
<p>80814              Overview of Romans 5 &amp; 6<br />
80612              Loving Mercy<br />
80214              Discerning The Various Seasons<br />
71108              The Glory of Sexual Purity (2 tapes)<br />
60215              Dating<br />
50106              Cultivating the Secret Life in God<br />
40529              Promotion By Humility<br />
30508              Understanding Fasting<br />
30430              Understanding Intercession Is. 62:6<br />
30423              Understanding Intercession I Cor. 3:9<br />
30123              Understanding Worship Rev. 4<br />
30501              Spirit of Prayer Ze. 12:10<br />
30424              Spirit of Prayer Ha. 2:9<br />
30510*<br />
30517              Eph. 6:10-15<br />
41230              Commitment to Financial Integrity<br />
90319              The Father Heart of God (Jn 17:24-26)<br />
90108              The Mystery of the Will of God<br />
80515               Hospitality<br />
41127               Losing Your Life<br />
30227              Understanding the Love of God<br />
90613               Revelation of the Father’s Mercy<br />
90702              The Good Intentions of the Heart<br />
90604              Discerning the Religious Spirit Mt. 18:1<br />
90611               Discerning the Religious Spirit (Pt. 2)<br />
90730              Value of Significance<br />
31115                How to Know God’s Will (2 tapes)<br />
90801              Establishing Your Life Vision<br />
90723              The Value of Acceptance<br />
90627              Confidence Before the Father: Our Greatest Joy<br />
90402              Five Steps to the Knowledge of God John 17:22-26<br />
90903              Discerning the Will of God<br />
80726              Job &amp; God’s Integrity<br />
70602              Eternal Rewards<br />
70503              The Value of Daily Diligence<br />
70502              Apostolic Prayer<br />
60212               Personal Prayer<br />
81002              A Vision for Personal Ministry<br />
91001              Restoration of the Church<br />
91212               Three Tensions of End-Time Prophecy<br />
AA28A            Power of Meditation on the Word<br />
91210              Cultivating an Intimate Knowledge of God<br />
80609             Freedom From Unsanctified Emotions<br />
81211               Scheduling Your Time<br />
91000              Principles for Nurturing the Prophetic Ministry (2 tapes)<br />
90623              Principles of Spiritual Maturity (2 tapes)<br />
91100               Introduction to the Song of the Lord<br />
61118                Spiritual Authority<br />
60708              Sinning Against Unity</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noel Alexander</span>:</strong></p>
<p>80330              The Jezebel Spirit<br />
90326*<br />
90328              Prayer Challenge (with Bob Jones)<br />
90604              Religious Spirit<br />
90815              The Hope for This Generation<br />
90910              Freedom From Sin by the Cross<br />
90709             Holy Spirit<br />
AA218             Princes of Israel take the Lead<br />
91224              Name of Jesus<br />
AB06A            Gladness of Heart<br />
AB11A             Deliverance From Mourning</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">David Parker</span>:</strong></p>
<p>91108             Making Godly Choices<br />
95555             How to Study the Bible<br />
80524             The Pruning of the Lord<br />
80809             Maintaining Your Spiritual Equilibrium (2 tapes)<br />
70303             Discipleship in the Word<br />
90117              Walking in the Comfort of God<br />
90820             Eyes to See the Goodness of the Lord<br />
90822             Engage Your Faith<br />
90716             Testing the Spirits<br />
90604             The Symptoms of Self-Righteousness<br />
90411              The Privilege of Loving Jesus<br />
91022             Learning to Delight in Mercy<br />
AA16B            The Source of Joy</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Michael Sullivant</span>:</strong></p>
<p>AB11B             It’s Time to Rebuild<br />
80320             The Purpose of Patience<br />
90207             Forbearance and Confrontation<br />
90122              Judgment and Mercy – Joel<br />
90305             Overcoming the Fear of Man<br />
90618              God’s Blueprint for the Christian Family (2 tapes)<br />
90709             The Four Foundational Standards of K.C.F.<br />
90806             God, Your Work &amp; Money (3 tapes)<br />
91008              Achieving Oneness in Marriage<br />
91015              Restoring Intimacy in Marriage</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">David Ravenhill</span>:</strong></p>
<p>90219              New Leaders for a New Purpose<br />
90222              Binding the Strongman (2 tapes)<br />
90221              Samson: Conceived out of Barrenness<br />
90418              Abrahamic Covenant (2 tapes)<br />
90813              Overcoming the Enemy<br />
90905              Abraham: The Price of the Promise<br />
91024              Simeon: A Transient Man<br />
90917              Understanding Prophecy &amp; It’s Fulfillment<br />
AA07B             A New Breed “David’s Warriors”<br />
91217              The Presence of God</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">John Wimber</span>:</strong></p>
<p>AB04A            The Kingdom of God in Your Midst</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Leonard Ravenhill</span>:</strong></p>
<p>9021A             Worship in the Beauty of Holiness</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bob Scott</span>:</strong></p>
<p>70811              The Prophetic Church (2 tapes)</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bob Jones</span>:</strong></p>
<p>60608*<br />
90226*<br />
81231*<br />
91010*</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Paul Cain</span>:</strong></p>
<p>91222              Paul Cain’s Early Ministry<br />
70512*<br />
70929*<br />
70629*<br />
70628*<br />
71001*<br />
91217              Intimacy with God</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rick Joyner</span>:</strong></p>
<p>9LC23             The Vision of the Harvest</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Terry Virgo</span>:</strong></p>
<p>91101              Enjoying God’s Grace (2 tapes)</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">John Paul Jackson</span>:</strong></p>
<p>8LS13              Responding to the Prophetic Call<br />
60831              Interpretation of Dreams &amp; Visions<br />
88LS9              The Jezebel Spirit<br />
8LC5A             Prophetic Administration (2 tapes)<br />
JPJCC*</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jim Goll</span>:</strong></p>
<p>90919              Wisdom in Handling the Prophetic<br />
90521L           God’s Remedy for Rejection<br />
90725             The Antidote Called Hope</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gary Schmitz</span>:</strong></p>
<p>AA14B             Securing Undistracted Devotion</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Ed Pioreck</span>:</strong></p>
<p>AA09A            The Fatherhood of God (2 tapes)</p>
<h4 align="center"><strong><em><span style="text-decoration:underline;">VIDEOS</span></em></strong><strong><em>:</em></strong></h4>
<p>V3PCH            Paul Cain’s Life Testimony – Highlights – <em>This 60 minute video highlights Paul Cain’s life and ministry.  Taped excerpts from the six hour full-length tapes are intended to provide an introduction for those who are unfamiliar with Paul Cain. </em>[AVAILABLE AFTER 4-1-90]<em></em></p>
<p>V4PCT             Paul Cain’s Life Testimony – <em>This six hour series was recorded in early 1990.  Paul covers material ranging from his grandmother, and mother, his childhood, his early years in ministry, the “silent years,” his current ministry and a prophetic look at the future. </em>[AVAILABLE AFTER 4-1-90]<em></em></p>
<p>V1BJI*</p>
<p>V2IPC*</p>
<h4 align="center"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Items listed in the Gruen “Aberrant Practices” document not included in above catalog</span>:</strong></h4>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Tapes</span>:</strong></p>
<p>- Bob Jones Speaks to Dominion School, Fall 1989<br />
- Bob Jones Prophecy: Olathe Christian Fellowship, part I<br />
- Bob Jones, Lee’s Summit, February 1988<br />
- John Paul Jackson with Bob Jones, KCMO, September 23, 1985<br />
- Interpretation of Dreams and Visions, John Paul Jackson<br />
- Prophetic Events, part I, John Paul Jackson<br />
- Prophetic Events, part II, John Paul Jackson<br />
- Visions and Signs, John Paul Jackson<br />
- Maranatha World Conference, Mike Bickle, October 1989<br />
- A New Breed, Bob Jones, 1989<br />
- Night of Enlightenment: Bickle, Wes Adams, Larry Fry, John Paul Jackson, October 7, 1987<br />
- The Fact in the New Order in God’s Work, Bickle, October 26, 1986<br />
- New Order Illustrated – David/Saul, Bickle, October 1986<br />
- New Order Illustrated – David/Saul, Bickle, October 26, 1986<br />
- Olathe Christian Fellowship, Bickle, February 8, 1987<br />
- Prophetic History 1, 2, 3, Bickle Spring 1986<br />
- Remembering Our Heritage, Bickle, May 5, 1987<br />
- Vineyard School of Prophecy, Bickle, Jones, 1989<br />
- Vineyard Pastor’s Meeting, David Parker, March 2, 1990</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Teaching Papers</span>:</strong></p>
<p>-          The Angelic Realm, Part I, “The Heavenly Identity, Nature &amp; Service of Angelic Beings”<br />
-          The Angelic Realm, Part II, “The Ministry and Relationship of Men and Angels”<br />
-          Commitment Class, Part I, “Dominion &amp; New Testament Church Life,” Week II, “The City Church,” Mike Bickle<br />
-         Grace Ministries Leadership Conference, Session 1, “Preparation of a New Wineskin,” Mike Bickle, 1989<br />
-         Grace Ministries Leadership Conference, Session 4, “The City Church,” Bickle, 1989<br />
-          Gathering of Prophets, Lecture Notes, Bickle, 1989<br />
-          “Emergence of Joseph Company,”Grace Ministries Leadership Conference, 1988<br />
-          The Prophetic Church, Part I, “A New Order of Men”<br />
-          “Strategy For Reaching a City &amp; Its Regions,” Bickle</p>
<p><strong><em> </em></strong></p>
<p><strong><em>I’m also collecting ANY teaching papers from the KCF/Grace Ministries era (1982-1990)!</em></strong></p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;"><span style="font-family:Bookman;"><sup>1</sup> Jackson, Bill <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The Quest for the Radical Middle</span>. 1999 (2010 “Re-published for Amazon”), Vineyard International Publishing, Cape Town, South Africa; pp 206-07<br />
<sup>2</sup> Jackson <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Quest</span>. p 195.  This is confirmed in an extant digital copy of the complete audio of Cain&#8217;s message that evening (exact date unknown) in which Cain mentions a January 1989 conference as being &#8221;last month.&#8221;<br />
<sup>3</sup> copy of letter on “Association of Vineyard Churches” letterhead on file<br />
<sup>4</sup> copy of letter on “Metro Vineyard Fellowship” letterhead on file<br />
<sup>5</sup> International House of Prayer <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Encountering Jesus</span>.  “IHOP MP3 stores: Free MP3s”  &lt;<a href="http://www.ihopmp3store.com/Groups/1000021591/IHOP_MP3_Downloads/Free_MP3s/Free_MP3s.aspx">http://www.ihopmp3store.com/Groups/1000021591/IHOP_MP3_Downloads/Free_MP3s/Free_MP3s.aspx</a>&gt; Disc 1 &lt;<a href="http://ihopcontent.ihop.org/ihopcntnt/endis/FreeMP3s/Encountering_Jesus_D1.mp3">http://ihopcontent.ihop.org/ihopcntnt/endis/FreeMP3s/Encountering_Jesus_D1.mp3</a>&gt; 18:45-19:35 as accessed 09/09/11</span></span></p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bob-jones/'>Bob Jones</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/gnosticism/'>Gnosticism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/ihop/'>IHOP</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/international-house-of-prayer/'>International House of Prayer</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/joels-army/'>Joel's Army</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/john-paul-jackson/'>John Paul Jackson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/john-wimber/'>John Wimber</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/kansas-city-prophets/'>Kansas City Prophets</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/leonard-ravenhill/'>Leonard Ravenhill</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/mike-bickle/'>Mike Bickle</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-breed/'>New Breed</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/paul-cain/'>Paul Cain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/rick-joyner/'>Rick Joyner</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/sin/'>sin</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/'>Uncategorized</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/anaheim-vineyard/'>Anaheim Vineyard</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bob-jones/'>Bob Jones</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bob-scott/'>Bob Scott</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/david-parker/'>David Parker</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/david-ravenhill/'>David Ravenhill</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ed-pioreck/'>Ed Pioreck</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ernie-gruen/'>Ernie Gruen</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/francis-frangipane/'>Francis Frangipane</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/gary-schmitz/'>Gary Schmitz</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/gnosticism/'>Gnosticism</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/grace-ministries/'>Grace Ministries</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/heresy/'>Heresy</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/ihop/'>IHOP</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/international-house-of-prayer/'>International House of Prayer</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/jim-goll/'>Jim Goll</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/kcf/'>KCF</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/kcp/'>KCP</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/leonard-ravenhill/'>Leonard Ravenhill</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/metro-vineyard-fellowship/'>Metro Vineyard Fellowship</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/michael-sullivant/'>Michael Sullivant</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/noel-alexander/'>Noel Alexander</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/occult/'>occult</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/prophetic/'>Prophetic</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/reuven-doron/'>Reuven Doron</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/signs-and-wonders/'>signs and wonders</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/stadium-vision/'>Stadium Vision</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/terry-virgo/'>Terry Virgo</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1225/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=1225&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/your-assistance-requested-seeking-original-audiovideo-of-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>51</slash:comments>
<enclosure url="http://ihopcontent.ihop.org/ihopcntnt/endis/FreeMP3s/Encountering_Jesus_D1.mp3" length="20697542" type="audio/mpeg" />
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-cat-90-13.jpg?w=96" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">kcF cat 90-1</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-gm-discontinued-media.jpg?w=300" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">KCF-GM discontinued media</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kcf-cat-90-21.jpg?w=300" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">KCF cat 90-2</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Another Challenge to Bill Johnson/Bethel Supporters</title>
		<link>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/another-challenge-to-bill-johnsonbethel-supporters/</link>
		<comments>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/another-challenge-to-bill-johnsonbethel-supporters/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 02:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bethel Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Johnson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[False Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[false teaching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Latter Rain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manifest Sons of God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NAR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Apostolic Reformation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heresy]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?p=1184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“Jesus is returning for a bride whose body is in equal proportion to her head.” -   Bill Johnson, 08/20/2011 Bill Johnson, Senior Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, CA, tweeted the above this past Saturday.  Pondering this, I could only construe it in a heretical manner.  But, maybe I’ve been doing this sort of thing too [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=1184&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<h5 align="center"><em>“<strong>Jesus is returning for a bride whose body is in equal proportion to her head.”</strong></em></h5>
<p align="right">-   Bill Johnson, 08/20/2011</p>
<p style="text-align:left;" align="right">Bill Johnson, Senior Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, CA, <a href="http://twitter.com/#!/billjohnsonBJM/status/104888304188669954">tweeted</a> the above this past Saturday.  Pondering this, I could only construe it in a heretical manner.  But, maybe I’ve been doing this sort of thing too long.  Perhaps this can be interpreted in a Biblically orthodox way.  Perhaps Bethel members or attendees, other Bill Johnson fans or, even better, Bill Johnson himself could explain his meaning.</p>
<p><img class="size-full wp-image-1215 aligncenter" title="BJ Tweet 08-20-2011" src="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/bj-tweet-08-20-20112.jpg?w=630" alt=""   /></p>
<p>So, here’s the ‘challenge’ which is simpler in format than the <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/open-challenge-to-bill-johnsonbethel-supporters/">first one</a>.  You may choose from any one or more of the four options below in your response:</p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;">1)      In your own words explain what this means to you.</p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;">2)      Assuming this is based on Scripture, please identify which one or ones.  Potentials could include but, of course, are not limited to the following: Colossians 1:18 (1:16-22) / Revelation 19:7, 21:9 / I John 4:17 / Ephesians 4:11-13 / Ephesians 5:31-32 / II Corinthians 6:14 / Galatians 4:4-7 / Romans 8:14-25, 28-30 / I John 3:9.</p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;">3)      If not based on Scripture but instead based on a ‘prophetic word,’ please identify which one and the messenger from which it came.</p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;">4)      If by any other method not identified above or in combination of the others above, please explain.</p>
<p>Before posting a comment, please view the <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/before-you-comment/">Before You Comment</a> tab.</p>
<p>________________________________________________________________________________________</p>
<p>Other related posts:</p>
<p><a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/kris-vallotton-and-the-%e2%80%9cmantle-of-jesus-christ%e2%80%9d-bill-johnson-on-corporate-anointing/">Kris Vallotton and the &#8220;Mantle of Jesus Christ&#8221; / Bill Johnson on Corporate Anointing</a></p>
<p><a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/bill-johnsons-born-again-jesus-part-ii/">Bill Johnson&#8217;s &#8216;Born Again&#8217; Jesus, Part II</a></p>
<p><a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/bethel-to-feature-bob-jones-at-upcoming-prophetic-conference/">Bethel to Feature Bob Jones at Upcoming Prophetic Conference</a></p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/eschatology/'>Eschatology</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-gospel/'>False Gospel</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a> Tagged: <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bethel-church/'>Bethel Church</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/bill-johnson/'>Bill Johnson</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/false-teaching/'>false teaching</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/heresy/'>Heresy</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/latter-rain/'>Latter Rain</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/manifest-sons-of-god/'>Manifest Sons of God</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/nar/'>NAR</a>, <a href='http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/tag/new-apostolic-reformation/'>New Apostolic Reformation</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/notunlikelee.wordpress.com/1184/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=notunlikelee.wordpress.com&amp;blog=15936663&amp;post=1184&amp;subd=notunlikelee&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/another-challenge-to-bill-johnsonbethel-supporters/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>66</slash:comments>
	
		<media:content url="http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/67f18628f4ee8cb52b531679cb46eea7?s=96&#38;d=identicon&#38;r=G" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">Craig Dorsheimer</media:title>
		</media:content>

		<media:content url="http://notunlikelee.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/bj-tweet-08-20-20112.jpg" medium="image">
			<media:title type="html">BJ Tweet 08-20-2011</media:title>
		</media:content>
	</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
