Chuck Pierce Hosts Conference Referencing ‘One New Man’

[Updated! 09/16/12.  New "word" from Bob Jones on Joel's Army both on the Elijah List and Jones' own site.  See below.]

This weekend Chuck D. Pierce, President of Global Spheres, Inc., is hosting the “Head of the Year Celebration” at his Global Spheres Center in Corinth, Texas.  The full title of the conference, to commence September 20 and conclude on the 23rd, is From Recovery to Wholeness: A Year to Bridge the Past and Enter the Future.  Since this upcoming year will be 5773 on the Jewish calendar, Pierce is claiming this is the ‘year of the camel’ as the number 3 in Hebrew was originally pictured as a camel.  Speakers to include Pierce, C. Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Jay Swallow, Trevor Baker, “Bishop” Bill Hamon, Paul Keith Davis, Venner Alston, Mark Chironna, Avner & Rachel Boskey, Rania Sayegh, Jeff Jansen and Robert Heidler.

The event is billed with the usual superlatives: “This is a time to keep your feet moving and go beyond where you have been in the past, until you drink and eat of the produce of your promise! The Kingdom of God will become the greatest influence in the earth realm.”

The subjects to be discussed at the Conference are the following:

  1. See the Camels Coming to Bring the Rewards and Reimbursements for Our Sorrows!
  2. Find Our Way of Escape from the Past!
  3. Cross the Bridge of the Past and Enter the Glory of the Future!
  4. Neutralize the Enemy’s Power, Recover Lost Strength, and Nourish Us into WHOLENESS!
  5. See the Priesthood for this Hour Blossom!
  6. Grow Up and Mature into One New Man!
  7. Bring the Impoverished into a New Dimension of Prosperity!

I wish to focus on numbers 3 and 6.

To “Cross the Bridge of the Past and Enter the Glory of the Future” is very likely referring to fully accessing the power of the first century Apostles and ‘bridging’ this to our future ‘glory’.  “Glory” in the hyper-charismatic / New Order of the Latter Rain sense means the erroneous and heretical notion of the attainment to the fullness of manifested sons of God/Joel’s Army such that these ‘elites’ will have received their glorified, resurrection bodies on the earth – contrary to 1st Corinthians 15:20-28, 50-54.  These ‘glorified elites’ will possess powers exceeding those of the REAL 1st century Apostles with an even greater authority.  These manifested sons of God (MSoG) will have the ‘divine’ authority to execute judgment and exact punishment upon those in opposition as explained by “Bishop” Bill Hamon (the “R-T” in the following means Resurrection-Translation):

…The positive purpose of the R-T is to enable the army of the Lord [Joel’s Army, or MSoG militant] to finalize the war against all evil. The army of the Lord will progress on in the war until they have accomplished all they can in their limited mortal bodies. The R-T is for the purpose of immortalizing their bodies. This will remove all the earthly limitations, thereby enabling the saints unlimited abilities. They will be able to travel in all space realms of the heavenlies the same as Jesus and the angels do now. They can move in and out of all dimensions of the natural and spiritual realms as Jesus did in His resurrected flesh-and-bone body.1 

God’s great end-time army is being prepared to execute God’s written Judgments with Christ’s victory and divine judgment decrees that have already been established in heaven. The time is set when they will be administered and executed on earth through God’s saintly army. All that is destined and needed will be activated during God’s restorational Army of the Lord Movement2

The “One New Man” is a reference to the hyper-charismatic / New Order of the Latter Rain doctrine of Christ’s “second coming” – the full-on heretical doctrine that Christ will only return IN a perfected body of believers culminating in this “One New Man” (also known as the “birth of the man-child”).  This is what Hamon is referring to in the above.  Two recent examples incorporating both of these false teachings (numbers 3 and 6 above) are: 1) Bill Johnson’s tweet from August 20, 2011 in which he states, “Jesus is returning for a bride whose body is in equal proportion to his head”, and, 2) Bob Jones statement at the 2011 “Piercing the Darkness Conference” held at Johnson’s Bethel Church, “Recently, the Lord spoke to me and said, I’m coming IN my people. Christ in you, the hope of glory. I’m comin’ IN my people.’3

Bill Johnson spoke on a “corporate anointing” – otherwise known as the “Corporate Christ” concept, which is the same as this “One New Man” – at Bethel about 2 years ago:

…Here’s what I’m believing for – I know it’s never happened; but, I know that it must before the end. There must be, not just individuals – I’m thankful we have individuals that are rising up with such anointing, such strength, we have people scattered all over the planet right now that are just making a mess of things in all the right ways. We are so encouraged. But, what I’m believing for is a generation – a generation that’ll rise up with a corporate faith, a corporate anointing to press into realms because it’s my conviction that as much as God put on a William Branham, or a Kathryn Kuhlman, or a Wigglesworth, He’ll put far greater anointing on a company of people than He ever would on an individual. To do that, there must be that corporate sense of, ‘we have to deal with the issue of obeying the rules of this kingdom to tap into the resources of this kingdom’…we cannot use the principles of this world and expect to tap into unlimited resource of the kingdom of God4

A new “word” on ‘Joel’s Army’ was just posted on Bob Jones’ site and the Elijah List using Joel 2:1-11 as the proof-text.  Paul Cain used these verses for Joel’s Army back in the late ’80s, though this is now denied.  The following purportedly came out of an August 18, 2012 trance Bob Jones went in to while napping:

Shortly there will be a war that I will declare and it will be a great victory! For I am going to hire mercy-naries you see and I shall pay well when they work for Me. Health and peace of mind will be their pay and joy they never knew. Money will be the least of things for I will prosper them in all ways. Mercy-naries are professional soldiers that have fought in many lands and fought in many battles. They are well trained in the sword you see. The word of God I will put in them and that will be their victory. They shall know defeat no longer but they shall be victorious. They shall know honor in Me. There will be no defeat for them. They are warriors and I will give them the victory. My pay to them shall be love, joy and peace that they will have within themselves. This shall be the tip of the sword of which they touch many. They have been warriors in many religious churches. Now I call them unto “the church” and they will have a victory in Me. Amen. [Bold in original; underscore added.]

It is claimed that those chosen to be in this army “have fought in many battles and [have been] scarred by the religious spirit. This religious spirit will no longer be able to touch them because they have been healed and delivered from it.” Jones goes on to quote from Joel 2:1, then he declares:

These are the days Joel prophesied! The Father will blow the trumpet in Zion and call His army into formation. (Amos 1:1) These are not battle weary soldiers but warriors well-armed in the power of the word and the fear of the Lord. They march forward in the might of the Holy Spirit never breaking rank. They never strive against one another but move in unity forming God’s most powerful army.

Bob Jones continues to quote the Book of Joel moving to 2:7-10 (the following is in the NASB):

7 They run like mighty men,
They climb the wall like soldiers;
And they each march in line,
Nor do they deviate from their paths.
8 They do not crowd each other,
They march everyone in his path;
When they burst through the defenses,
They do not break ranks.
9 They rush on the city,
They run on the wall;
They climb into the houses,
They enter through the windows like a thief.
10 Before them the earth quakes,
The heavens tremble,
The sun and the moon grow dark
And the stars lose their brightness.

This is followed by a section boldly titled God is Declaring War!:

The Father declares war but the mercenaries fight it at His command. We are the soldiers of fortune on this land. Our fortune is to do His Will. There will be great prosperity in His peace of mind, joy and love. The voice of the Father is the only one they will hear as they march forward into battle. Their life is spent on doing the Father’s will. Not one will cower to the fear of man or be led astray by the enemy.

This “word” is completed by finishing the section in Joel:

11 The Lord utters His voice before His army;
Surely His camp is very great,
For strong is he who carries out His word.
The day of the Lord is indeed great and very awesome,
And who can endure it? [NASB]

These ideas have parallels in New Age / New Spirituality teachings.  Here’s a quote from Alice Bailey from a century ago referencing the “Corporate Christ” concept corresponding to a false second Coming:

…Eventually, there will appear the Church Universal, and its definite outlines will appear towards the close of this [20th] century…This Church will be nurtured into activity by the Christ [ED: actually Satan/antichrist] and His disciples when the outpouring of the Christ principle, the true second Coming, has been accomplished5

Here’s another New Age / New Spirituality site proclaiming a similar thing specifying that when this ‘Christ’ “reappears” (the belief is he never left), he will appear in many people at one time:

The Christ, when He comes into incarnation, will most likely project himself into many parts and be where he wants to be. This is called the Law of Divisibility, a term used in Agni Yoga that means a highly developed spirit—one who is able to contact, simultaneously, various people in various locations.6

Barbara Marx Hubbard, former US Vice Presidential candidate (in 1984, although Geraldine Ferraro ultimately made it on the Democratic ticket) and staunch New Ager, explicated a radical version of “Joel’s Army” in an unpublished manuscript from 1980 referencing Revelation 6:7-8 with the ‘pale horse’ of verse 8 representing those “elected to transcend with all their heart, mind and spirit”.7  This pale horse will “kill with sword” (Rev 6:8) the one-fourth of the population which refuses to “evolve” with the rest, deemed the “self-centered”8 – those who will fail to join the others into making the next evolutionary leap from homo sapiens sapiens to homo universalis (Universal Humanity).  Compare this to Hamon’s and Jones’ words above:

Before this stage of power can be inherited by the God-centered members of the social-body, the self-centered members must be destroyed.  There is no alternative.  Only the God-centered can evolve…

Fortunately, you, dearly beloveds, are not responsible for this act.  We are.  We are in charge of God’s selection process for planet Earth.  He selects, we destroy.  We are the riders of the pale horse, Death.

We come to bring death to those who are unable to know God.  We do this for the sake of the world…

The riders of the pale horse are about to pass among you.  Grim reapers, they will separate the wheat from the chaff.  This is the most painful period in the history of humanity.

Those of you who know what is happening – the one-fourth who are now listening to the higher self – are to be guides for the rest who will be panicked and confused.9

Is this the sort of thing Bill Hamon, Bob Jones and the other hyper-charismatic leaders of the New Apostolic Reformation have in mind for those Christians who refuse to unify with their false belief system?  Must the earth be purged of those “self-centered” Christians – the ones who will not unify with these false ecumenical, pluralistic efforts – to pave the way for the “One New Man”?  Placing Hamon’s and Jones’ quotes above alongside Marx Hubbard’s, one must really wonder which side Hamon, Jones and their cohorts are really on.

It seems that, just like Marx Hubbard’s theology, there must be a battle to get rid of those “self-centered” Christians with a “religious spirit” before the “One New Man” can emerge.  That is, this war must be fought before “Christ” can ‘return’ “IN his people” after which they become collectively “One New Man” a/k/a homo universalis (Universal Humanity).

LORD have mercy upon us all.

1Bill Hamon Apostles, Prophets and the Coming Moves of God. 1997 (2nd printing), Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA, pp 264-265.  Emphasis added.
2Hamon, p 252.  Emphasis added.
3Jones, Bob “The Coming Kingdom” Piercing the Darkness Prophetic Conference, February 2011. Hosted by Bethel Church, Redding, CA, Feb 23-25, 2011, Session 4, Feb 24, 2011, 7:00pm, 38:53 – 39:05. Emphasis in original. Available for sale at Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church website: <http://store.ibethel.org/p4810/piercing-the-darkness-february-2011-complete-set-bethel-campus>; as accessed 09/15/12.
4“ChasingRiver” The Real Jesus – Part 4 – by Bill Johnson. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHcRI60j0HI&feature=related>, 0:35 – 1:45; as accessed 09/15/12.
5Alice A. Bailey The Externalisation of the Hierarchy. © 1957 Lucis, NY, 6th printing 1981; Fort Orange Press, Albany, NY, p 510. Underscore from emphasis in original; bold added for my own emphasis. Most sections within the book have corresponding dates of initial writing, or, more accurately, transmission. The portion quoted here is from 1919.
6World Service Intergroup website. J.D. Dubois, “The Christ, His Reappearance, and the Avatar of Synthesis” <http://www.worldserviceintergroup.net/?#/christ-reappearance/4543145171> World Service Intergroup; Dubois; par 5; as accessed 09/15/12.
7Barbara Marx Hubbard The Book of Co-Creation: An Evolutionary Interpretation of the New Testament – Part III, The Revelation: Alternative to Armageddon. 1980, unpublished manuscript, p 59.  From the title page: “The Book of Co-Creation is a three part unpublished manuscript written by Barbara Marx Hubbard in 1980.  Part III follows in its pre-publication form.”  Interestingly, the first edition of a book by Marx Hubbard titled The Book of Co-Creation: The Revelation, Our Crisis is a Birth [1993, The Foundation for Conscious Evolution, Sonoma, CA], which goes through the entire book of Revelation, entirely omits 6:7-8 proceeding from a reference to 6:1-2 (p 134) to 7:1-4 (p 138).
8Marx Hubbard, p 59
9Marx Hubbard, pp 60-61

About these ads

92 Responses to Chuck Pierce Hosts Conference Referencing ‘One New Man’

  1. just1ofhis says:

    The latest off Elijah’s LIst:

    From the desk of Steve Shultz:
    This is a very encouraging word from a very accurate prophet and a dear friend of mine, Bob, and his wife Bonnie Jones. Read it closely because it refers, in my opinion, to at least a dual interpretation if not at least three interpretations.

    Also, would you do me a favor? Please help us keep sending you words by buying as many prophetic items as you are able to from the Elijah List at this link: http://www.elijahshopper.com. You might save a buck by buying it online through Amazon, but you’ll help us build the Kingdom more effectively if you buy things through us. Will you consider that “proposal”? Thank you for supporting us!
    ________________________________________

    A Time of Completion and New Connections

    By Doug Addison:
    Saturday August 18th as Bob was taking a nap he went into a trance and began to prophesy in rhythm. The first section of this message is what he spoke in that trance-like state while the second section is what he was shown.

    Mercy-naries
    “Shortly there will be a war that I will declare and it will be a great victory! For I am going to hire mercy-naries, you see, and I shall pay well when they work for Me. Health and peace of mind will be their pay and joy they never knew. Money will be the least of things for I will prosper them in all ways. Mercy-naries are professional soldiers that have fought in many lands and fought in many battles. They are well trained in the sword, you see.
    “The Word of God I will put in them and that will be their victory. They shall know defeat no longer, but they shall be victorious. They shall know honor in Me. There will be no defeat for them. They are warriors and I will give them the victory. My pay to them shall be love, joy and peace that they will have within themselves. This shall be the tip of the sword of which they touch many. They have been warriors in many religious churches. Now I call them unto “the Church” and they will have a victory in Me.” Amen.

    Battle Proven Warriors
    Bob was shown that these mercy-naries are old warriors; scarred and battle proven. They are going to fight for a nation that they are not a citizen of (Ephesians 2:19). They have fought in many battles and scarred by the religious spirit. This religious spirit will no…(more) This religious spirit will no longer be able to touch them because they have been healed and delivered from it.

    These mercy-naries know how to utilize every weapon in the armory of God. They’re familiar with each weapon and His battle plan. As many of the old leadership have gone home, these warriors will replace them. They will be the ones on the front line of the battle field and total mercy will be their mission.
    Joel’s Army!

    Joel 2:1:
    Blow the trumpet in Zion,
    And sound an alarm in My holy mountain!
    Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble;
    For the day of the Lord is coming,
    For it is at hand:

    These are the days Joel prophesied! The Father will blow the trumpet in Zion and call His army into formation (Amos 1:1). These are not battle weary soldiers but warriors well-armed in the power of the Word and the fear of the Lord. They march forward in the might of the Holy Spirit never breaking rank. They never strive against one another but move in unity forming God’s most powerful army.

    Joel 2:7-10:
    They run like mighty men,
    They climb the wall like men of war;
    Every one marches in formation,
    And they do not break ranks.
    They do not push one another;
    Every one marches in his own column
    Though they lunge between the weapons,
    They are not cut down.
    They run to and fro in the city,
    They run on the wall;
    They climb into the houses,
    They enter at the windows like a thief.
    The earth quakes before them,
    The heavens tremble;
    The sun and moon grow dark,
    And the stars diminish their brightness.

    God is Declaring War!
    The Father declares war but the mercy-naries fight it at His command. We are the soldiers of fortune on this land. Our fortune is to do His Will. There will be great prosperity in His peace of mind, joy and love. The voice of the Father is the only one they will hear as they march forward into battle. Their life is spent on doing the Father’s will. Not one will cower to the fear of man or be led astray by the enemy.

    Joel 2:11
    The Lord gives voice before His army,
    For His camp is very great;
    For strong is the One who executes His word.
    For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible;
    Who can endure it?

    Note: Mercy is not getting the judgment that we deserve.
    Nary simply means not any; no; never a: nary a sound.

    Bob and Bonnie Jones
    The Prophetic Ministry of Bob and Bonnie Jones

  2. Craig says:

    just1ofhis,

    Thanks for sending this! I’ve stopped checking the E-list a while back because it just seemed to get more and more ridiculous. However, blatantly using Joel 2:1-11 has not been done for quite a while now. This was taught by both Paul Cain at Mike Bickle’s Kansas City Fellowship (KCF) in the late ’80s and Bickle retrenched the idea claiming that Cain never taught Joel 2:1-11 as “Joel’s Army” – that it was Joel 2:12-17 instead. Bob Jones was one of the other primary “prophets” at KCF at the time. Bickle still refers to Cain and Jones as “spiritual fathers”.

  3. Craig says:

    I’ve now updated the post to include Jones’ “word”.

  4. M'Kayla says:

    It seems to me the army called Joel’s Army is the swarm of locusts arising from the pit as described in Revelation 9. It has nothing to do with God’s people joining forces! Joel 2 is referencing prophetically the Day of the Lord, which is His wrath poured out on the inhabitants of the earth, namely those who rejected Christ.

    We cannot forget Rick Joyner who has prophesied and written about a bloody war between believers. These men, along with Bentley have the masses believing quite the opposite of what biblical prophecy teaches, even in its most simplistic state.

  5. Bud Press says:

    Notice the following statement in the above:

    “God is Declaring War! The Father declares war but the mercy-naries fight it at His command. We are the soldiers of fortune on this land. Our fortune is to do His Will. There will be great prosperity in His peace of mind, joy and love. The voice of the Father is the only one they will hear as they march forward into battle. Their life is spent on doing the Father’s will. Not one will cower to the fear of man or be led astray by the enemy.”

    Now, who within the hyper-Charismatic movement claims to speak for God? Mainly the hyper-Charismatic prophets (leaders). Who believes the hyper-Charismatic prophets? Their followers.

    No sensationalism meant, but let us not forget Charles Manson and Jim Jones and their band of “mercy-naries” who wanted to reform the ills of the world, but caused tremendous grief and death to innocent adults and children.

    Think about it…

    Bud Press

  6. Craig says:

    M’Kayla,

    Right you are. Initially, Joel 2:1-11 was fulfilled by the Assyrian army attacking Israel in the 8th and 7th centuries BC; however, like a lot of OT prophecies, this one has a double fulfillment as referenced in Revelation 9:1-11. This certainly will be an army “of God” – but not as God’s people wielding the weapons.

    Interestingly, I was just reading a bit from a booklet of Joyner’s from ’89 titled The Harvest Trilogy with the first of the three a summary of the larger Harvest by Joyner. I had previously highlighted a section about folks being raised up with the “spirit of Phinehas”. In the beginning of this section Joyner states, “The Lord’s purpose in preparing for the harvest is to JOIN, not to separate” [caps in original]. In New Age theology there is no sin with one exception: the sin of separatism. Why is that? If one truly believes in the New Age theory that mankind is on the cusp of a leap in mankind resulting in a new homo universalis (Universal Humanity) which requires the cooperation of ALL of mankind, separation cannot be tolerated as it will impede the progress. Therefore, there’s only one option…

  7. just1ofhis says:

    Bud,

    That passage really hit me also. For 2000 years, the church that is the body of Christ has been standing against the evil one, not cowering to the fear of man, and carrying the gospel into all the world. It is our Heavenly Father who protects us from the evil one. That is NOTHING new (although it seems to be a revelation of sorts to these folks). Maybe a bit of church history–as in 2000 years of martyrs–would bring them back to some level of humility (not holding my breath). They could start with Nero and his brutal persecution of the early Christian church. What arrogance!

    How blessed are we that true prophesy as written in scripture tells us that these days were coming. Powerful delusion is a judgment against those who refused to love the truth and so be saved. (2 Thessalonians) And we only understand this if we love the Word of God which is Jesus Christ in the flesh. Yet, I have hope that God will keep calling others out of this nonsense.

  8. Craig says:

    Bill Johnson has claimed that those against “the anointing” have a religious spirit which is also an antichrist spirit defined as a:

    “…demonic presence that works to get us to substitute being led of our intellect instead of the Spirit of God…Anything that will take the place of dependence upon the Holy Spirit [ED actually, Johnson’s “anointing”] and His empowering work can be traced to the spirit of opposition.” [When Heaven Invades Earth 2003, Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA, p 81]

    Johnson, and most of hyper-charismaticism, laud William Branham who had a different twist on the pale horse of Revelation 6:7-8 as explained in this article with the following extract:

    “Branham also taught that all Christian denominations lacked full revelation (Branham’s, that is), that denominations were the mark of the beast [Rev 13:16], and, thus, all those attending denominational churches were not really saved and are, in fact, antichrist.8 All congregants of denominations are actually the pale horse, death, of the fourth seal of Revelation [Rev 6:7-8] and will be killed off by the collective white horses made up of Jesus and the ‘church’ [Rev 19:14].”9 [footnotes from William Marrion Branham The Revelation of the Seven Seals. 1993, Voice of God, Jeffersonville, IA; pages 259, 249-95 & 281, 249-95, respectively. Book taken from sermon tapes of March 17-25, 1963.]

    Of course, hyper-charismatics like to refer to our current times as the ‘post-denominational era’.

  9. just1ofhis says:

    Craig,

    I posted this to M’Kayla’s blog and am copying it here as it really brings into focus that false view of “anointing” that BJ likes to “spread”. Page 6 talks about BJ’s explanation of “why” Jesus was put to death. Incredible!

    From the post on M’Kayla’s blog:

    I found this off ibethel store. It is a part of their children’s curriculum and simplifies BJ’s “born again” Jesus, smeared with the Holy Spirit teachings.

    http://www.ibethel.org/files/downloads/pdf/lesson6smeared.pdf

    The following are portions from the downloadable sample of lesson 6 “Smeared With God” from the “Kid’s Carrying the Kingdom” curriculum available on ibethel:

    Pg 2: “We have recently discovered that: *we have been given a royal mission to bring Heaven to earth. *Jesus had the same Royal Mission.*Jesus could not do any miracles without God’s power; that’s why He was Baptized in the Holy Spirit.*We can have the same power of the Holy Spirit as well.”

    (NOTE: So, Jesus had the same royal mission as you and I? Really? This is satan’s voice in the garden…you shall be as Him….)

    Pg 6: “Smeared by a Friend” (Note: an illustration using a person dressed in white robe as the Holy Spirit and peanut butter….states the following in the Preparation: “make sure volunteers are not allergic to peanut butter”….so much for healing and faith in God’s power)

    From the teaching session: “The anointing of the Holy Spirit scares the devil and his Kingdom of Darkness. He will do anything he can to stop the anointing. He tried when Jesus was on earth, and that is why the religious leaders had Jesus put to death.”

    (NOTE: Jesus was put to death because the devil is trying to stop the anointing? Where is the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world? Where is the Good Shepherd who lays down His own life for the sheep?)

    Pg 7: “In a soaking atmosphere, lead the children in inviting the presence of the Holy Spirit…..Tell Him that we want to be just like Jesus, that we want to do the same things Jesus did and that we want the same anointing. Let’s invite the Holy Spirit to smear us with Himself….”

  10. Craig says:

    Wow. That is the epitomy of evil – indoctrinating children into his demonic teachings. I just cannot be polite about this. This whole “soaking in ‘his’ presence” is nothing more than Transcendental Meditation from the Eastern religions – an attempt to unite with “god”. (And yoga means union with ‘god’ as well.) Instead it invokes demonic entities who are more than pleased to lead astray.

    To be fair, Johnson is not the only one who is extolling the ‘virtues’ of the “anointing”; it’s the entire hyper-charismatic wing. This whole “baptism in the Holy Spirit” / “Christ anointing” as a ‘second blessing’ originates in the 2nd century (possibly the 1st) as evidenced in a quote from the Gnostic Gospel of Philip (from the 2nd century) quoted here:

    http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/bill-johnsons-christology-a-new-age-christ-part-iiia/

    “The chrism [ED: Greek for "anointing"] is superior to baptism. For from the chrism we were called ‘Christians’, not from baptism. Christ also was (so) called because of the anointing….” [Wilhelm Schneemelcher; transl. R. McL. Wilson New Testament Apocrypha: Volume One: Gospels and Related Writings. © J.C.B. Mohr (Paul Siebeck), Tubingen, 1990; English Translation © James Clarke & Co. Ltd, 1991 (Rev. ed.), Westminster John Knox, Louisville, KY; p 200]

  11. Badger says:

    From Bob’s webpage, right at the bottom:

    ” **Note: Mercy is not getting the judgment that we deserve.
    Nary simply means not any; no; never a: nary a sound”

    so mercy-nary = “No mercy”?

    Looks like Bob envisages no prisoners in this battle…

  12. Craig says:

    Badger,

    Yes, “mercy is not getting the judgment that we deserve”; it means we get no mercy at all. That is, those with “religious spirits”.

  13. Bud Press says:

    What better way to guarantee the future of deception than to condition, manipulate, and indoctrinate innocent children? May God be merciful to them and protect them, and bring His righteous judgment upon those who harm them mentally, physically, and spiritually.

    Bud Press

  14. Dave says:

    This ONE NEW MAN is the MAN OF SIN spoken of in II Thes. 2 — sitting within the spiritual temple of God, the body of Christ.

  15. just1ofhis says:

    Bethel’s Childrens Declarations (you can even get a poster of this off ibethel store):

    “I Declare:
    I am powerful and what I believe changes the world, so today I declare

    God is in a good mood.

    He loves me all the time.
    Nothing can separate me from His love.

    Jesus’ blood paid for everything
    I will tell the nations of what He has done.

    I am important.
    How He made me is amazing.
    I was designed for worship.
    My mouth establishes praise to silence the enemy.
    Everywhere I go becomes a perfect health zone.

    Because with God nothing is impossible.”

    To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the LORD to take it away from me. But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weaknesses.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2Cor12:7-10)

    Those who declare their own power do not need the power of Jesus Christ anymore than those who declare their own righteousness need a Savior. This is tragically sad, and I pray that God will show mercy and bring many out of this delusion.

  16. Craig says:

    just1ofhis,

    Indeed sad.

    However, Bethel/Johnson will claim that 2 Cor 12:7-10 is not about sickness; yet, it’s clear in Galatians that Paul had eye troubles. And Timothy had stomach ailments. Stephen was never raised from the dead after being stoned. In fact, none of the first century Apostles were raised from the dead. I could go on.

    If it’s true that “everywhere I go becomes a perfect health zone”, then Bethel collectively should go to local hospitals, clinics, assisted living facilities, etc. and cure them all…

  17. Craig says:

    Dave,

    There are a number of interpretations for 2 Thess 2:3-4; and, yours is one of them. It could well be how it’s going to get fulfilled. But, yes, there are attempts to build another Temple underway as we speak.

    Sid Roth explains the “One New Man” concept:

    http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=art_&page=NewsArticle&id=5697&security=1043&news_iv_ctrl=1053

    Note the importance of the Tabernacle of David. All of it twisted Scripture.

    I have audio of Paul Cain from ’89 (at Kansas City Fellowship which morphed into IHOP) in which he claims “God can’t rest until He finds His home in man”- meaning man is God’s temple. It’s the whole false 2nd coming thing in which Christ comes IN the “church”.

    In proper context, Ephesians 2:14-15 is referring to the fact that in Christ there IS no Jew or Gentile – no division. I’ve written (a long time ago) about the faulty interpretation of Acts 15:16-17/Amos 9:11 regarding the Tabernacle of David. In proper context, Christ is the lineage from “David’s fallen tent” and James’ point in Acts 15 is that Gentiles are now part of God’s family and the question at hand – whether Gentiles should adhere to Jewish Mosaic law – was answered in verse 15:19-21.

    All of these false teachings are related.

  18. Craig says:

    Here’s Ryan Wyatt speaking at Rick Joyner’s “church” on Jesus second coming:

    0:00 – Jesus is not coming back for a baby church. He’s coming back for a bride, a body, that is in proportion to the head – which is Jesus. He’s coming back for a body that’s going to shake the earth with revival.”

    This ‘revival’ must precede and precipitate “Jesus’” return in order for Him to come thru the “church” body.

    Wyatt begins to talk about a vision in which he saw a “Birthing”.

    0:43 – “Jesus Christ has a dream. In fact, Jesus Christ has an inheritance that He can never lay hold of outside of our success as the body of Christ. Did you know that?

    “We have an inheritance in Jesus. We have an inheritance not just when we die and enter in…and actually get our glorified bodies and living in heaven. We have an inheritance NOW of tasting of the powers of the age to come living under an open heaven and releasing the kingdom on the earth. His inheritance is completely tied up with our destiny and our future. And so that’s why I know that He is not coming back for some beat up, bruised, broken bride. Jesus is coming back for a bride that’s moving in great power. But He is going to, at the same time He’s gonna to come back in great power thru us, He’s doing things to prepare us to be the body of people that we need to be in order to move in that end times shaking revival.”

    Then he goes on to speak of “contractions” of ‘birthing’ of a future “revival that will not end”.

    3:42 – “…But God is preparing situations in the earth, on planet earth and in your life personally to prepare you to be a birthing agent of the Kingdom…”

    Wyatt claims this ‘revival’ will continue growing until He comes.

    __________________________

    Yet, Scripture says the earth will be destroyed (2 Peter 3:11-13; Rev 6:1-17, 8:5-13, 9:1-21, 11:11-15, 16:1-21); there will be no “revival” to bring Him back and restore “the Kingdom” on earth. But, this is a New Age belief.

  19. Bud Press says:

    Regarding the “Bethel Childrens Declaration” above, if children are led to believe they are “powerful,” they will become dismayed and even depressed when they exercise that “power” and nothing happens.

    Also, telling children to chant “Everywhere I go becomes a perfect health zone” is a lie that they will soon find out the hard way, because people–including their school class-mates–will continue to suffer from sickness, disease, and death, until Jesus returns, that is.

    Conditioning and indoctrinating innocent children into the teachings of a false belief system carries severe consequenses”

    “And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” (Matthew 18:5-6)

  20. Steve B. (omots) says:

    Can anyone skip over Jesus and go directly to the Father on their own? The Bible tells us that to be in the Father’s presence without having first been washed by the blood of Jesus is a terrible thing.

    Of course, one should not assume that Bethel’s “Father”, and the “Father” of our Lord Jesus are one and the same. If Bill Johnson teaches a different “Christ”, then it stands to reason that the “Father” he references must be different too.

    The occult “never ending revival” as referenced above, will likely “manifest” itself through the children. So let’s take a closer look at Bethel’s children’s ministry.

    The Bethel Children’s Tent Revival webpage uses a Narnia logo that is eerily similar to the Masonic “square and compass” symbol.

    http://www.ibethel.org/events/2012/01/childrens-tent-revival-camp-shingletown-ca

    Perhaps this is nothing more than coincidence. Or it could have been designed that way intentionally. So what does this symbol mean?

    “In speculative Freemasonry, this emblematic symbol is used in Masonic ritual. The Square is an emblem of virtue in which we must “square our actions by the square of virtue with all mankind”. The Compasses exemplify our wisdom of conduct,… the strength to “circumscribe our desires and keep our passions within due bounds”. When these 2 Masonic tools are placed together with God (the Creator) as our central focal point… (just as King Solomon built God’s Temple, first… and then built his house around it), peace and harmony is the result.”

    http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/square-and-compasses.html#ixzz26vkxtTOR

    Bethel’s web design team has placed the virtuous lion, Aslan, where the letter “G” (referencing the masonic “god”) would typically be found in the square and compass symbol. Perhaps I am reading too much into this, however, it does seem to make sense when one looks at the intent of the camp, which is, through practiced ritual, to prepare the young initiates to lead a life of virtuous empowerment.

    Keep in mind, one does not find humility, repentance, or the salvation message of the Gospel advertised as being preached at Camp Narnia. One is expected to link up with God simply out of one’s own desire, and by being taught how to do it.

    Below the overtly masonic Narnia logo on the Bethel Children’s Tent Revival webpage is the following incantation:

    This is the generation we’ve all been waiting for.
    The generation who will change everything.
    Those we’ve heard would someday come.
    That someday is now.
    The waiting is over.
    Considered to be children in this world, they’ve been discovered as kings and queens in His.
    Once they’ve seen who they truly are, they will alter here to look like There.
    These are the kings and queens who win battles without fighting.
    Welcome to Narnia.
    The tent we meet in is the wardrobe where children enter the realm where identity is restored, and destiny is released.”

    The camp’s featured speaker, a graduate of the Bethel Supernatural School of Ministry, “Seth Dahl is the Children’s Pastor at Bethel Church. In addition, he oversees both Sidewalk Sunday School and Elementary School outreach ministries. His passion is to bring God’s Kingdom with signs and wonders, connecting children to the Father’s heart so that they will serve Him all the days of their lives.”

    So, was Seth able to manifest “the presence” and impress the children at Camp Narnia with signs and wonders? Was Seth able to connect these children directly to the “Father’s heart”? Were these children “anointed” and empowered to serve God, or were they being deceived into serving some other entity? A “God of Forces” perhaps?

  21. Craig says:

    23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. [1 John 2:23, NASB]

  22. Bud Press says:

    Regarding the “Children’s Tent Revival Camp” rules (above), I found the following unacceptable:

    “VISITATION Bethel Church Children’s Tent Revival Camp at Lassen Pines is a closed camp. This is for the safety and enjoyment of every camper. We ask that family and friends not visit during the week.”

    http://www.ibethel.org/events/2012/01/childrens-tent-revival-camp-shingletown-ca

    I can understand “friends” not visiting, but a child’s “family” should be encouraged to pop-in at any time. I woudn’t allow my child to attend any camp that asked me not to visit during the event.

    Bud Press

  23. just1ofhis says:

    A CELEBRATION OF YOUTH

    Young people stand here
    On the threshold of their lives.

    We enter joyfully
    Through the open door.
    We face our fate courageously,
    For while fate defeats the cowardly,
    God helps the brave!

    We the youth are the bridge
    From ancestors to grandchildren.
    “Now let the banner fly.”

    A CULTURE OF HONOR

    We want this people to be faithful, and you must learn fidelity. We want this people to be obedient, and you must practice obedience. We want this people to be peace-loving but also courageous, and you must therefore be peace-loving and at the same time courageous. We do not want this people to grow soft, but we want it to be hard so that it will be able to withstand the hardships of life. And for this you have to harden yourselves in your youth. You must learn to be hard, to stand privations without breaking down. We want this people to love honor and you already in the days of your youth must live up to this concept of honor.

    A DIVINE PURPOSE

    “God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work…
    Only He can relieve me of this duty Who called me to it. It was in the hand of Providence to snuff me out by the bomb that exploded only one and a half meters from me on July 20, and thus to terminate my life’s work. That the Almighty protected me on that day I consider a renewed affirmation of the task entrusted to me…
    Therefore, it is all the more necessary on this twelfth anniversary of the rise to power to strengthen the heart more than ever before and to steel ourselves in the holy determination to wield the sword, no-matter where and under what circumstances, until final victory crowns our effort…”

    RAISING UP OF THE SUPERHEROS

    “I begin with the young. We older ones are used up. We are rotten to the marrow. We are cowardly and sentimental. We are bearing the burden of a humiliating past, and have in our blood the dull recollection of serfdom and servility. But my magnificent youngsters! Are there any finer ones in the world? Look at these young men and boys! What material! With them, I can make a new world. This is the heroic stage of youth. Out of it will come the creative man, the man-god.”

    A GLOBAL DOMINION DESIRE

    I intend to set up a thousand-year Reich and anyone who supports me in this battle is a fellow-fighter for a unique spiritual—I would say divine—creation… Rudolf Hess, my assistant of many years standing, would tell you: If we have such a leader, God is with us.

    “A NEW MAN”

    National socialism is the determination to create a new man. There will no longer exist any individual arbitrary will, nor realms in which the individual belongs to himself. The time of happiness as a private matter is over.

    DESPISE WEAKNESS/GLORIFY POWER

    My program for educating youth is hard. Weakness must be hammered away. In my castles of the Teutonic Order a youth will grow up before which the world will tremble. I want a brutal, domineering, fearless, cruel youth. Youth must be all that. It must bear pain. There must be nothing weak and gentle about it. The free, splendid beast of prey must once again flash from its eyes…That is how I will eradicate thousands of years of human domestication…That is how I will create the New Order.

    The first quote above was from a Hitler Youth Indoctrination Ceremony. All the other quotes were from Adolf Hitler. The enemy has no new tricks…just the same, ugly, worn-out, ancient lies.

    Love is the opposite of Kingdom/Dominion rule. Patience and mercy are the opposites of desire and determination. God is with the meek, the humble, and the lowly. Satan leads the powerful, the strong, and the proud. The Honor of men is NOTHING to a Holy God.

  24. just1ofhis says:

    Chuck Pierce and company from September 9th:

    http://www.gloryofzion.org/prophecy_revelation.php

    “The Lord says that I’m gonna release sounds that you have never heard. I’m calling people that you’ve never meet. There are nations that are beginning to turn and I’m putting the sound that will cause them to turn within you.

    Cause the Lord says after fire comes glory. He says that after you’ve walked through the fire I release My Glory. And the Lord says that this is a day that I’m unlocking, opening and bringing forth all that I have for you in this season.

    For I say to you enemy watch that I am preparing a generation that it will enter lap with the angelic realm. I say to you for My people will rise on the wings of Zion and it will rise on the wings of El Elyon. So I say to you open the way for there is an army that it will travail and the army will laugh in your face and you will understand there reverential has come upon the earth for there a division you will sit in one side and My army on the other side. So I say to you understand that the Divider, the Divider, the Divider, the Divider is in your midst.

    And the Lord says that that iron rod of My mouth I am forming and you are that iron rod. And there are magnetic fields in the earth that are opening up and there are magnetic fields in the atmosphere that have never been unlocked and I am taking the iron rod that you are and I am forming you to align with those magnetic fields. And you will move with those fields in a way that has never been seen and there is power unleashed and there is alignment unleashed and there is a forming and connecting to be seen in days ahead.

    Now listen there’s a sound in us that will come forth, there is a sound in you that has been blocked and the Lord said it is a sound that will dethrone the Jezebel structure that’s been ruling you.

    The sound that Dolly just released is the sound of Isaiah 54. Now last week Chuck said we need to read that every day. And I’ve been looking at it and studying it and as soon as that sound started coming forth I knew it was exactly what it say when it says shout for joy barren woman, release a joyful shout, break into joyful shouting for the children of the desolate will be more than the children of the married woman and great will be the well-being, the shalom and the peace of your sons.

    Now just receive grace for victory. Grace to shout, shout grace! Grace! Grace! Grace!

    I hear the Spirit of the Lord says the influence of this place, the Hub of this place, the anointing of God shall bring those from around the world to hear in a dimension you’ve never seen. The Lord says get ready for President’s shall come to this place, Ambassador’s shall come to this place. Don’t think it strange that recently that I anointed you as a voice, as a sound to go forth and bring rain. You shall decree to this world you’ll see the Kingdom of God come, you’ll shift the election in this country. Know that I will appointed you, this is the hour that you shall see the harvest of the Kingdom saith the Lord. Get ready release your faith know this that God shall have the last word.”

    Don’t know where to begin….

  25. Craig says:

    just1ofhis,

    Well, for maximal effect one must listen to the accompanying video. But, what all that is, well, that’s anybody’s guess. It reminds of a title to piece by jazz avant-garde music icon Sun Ra (born Herman Blount and claims to have been born on Saturn): Your Guest is as Good as Mine. For those a bit slow on the uptake, he’s referring to a spirit guide/guest; and, my take is that (at least) some of these ‘prophetic words’ came from a “different spirit” [2 Cor 11:4].

  26. just1ofhis says:

    Bud said: “Regarding the “Bethel Childrens Declaration” above, if children are led to believe they are “powerful,” they will become dismayed and even depressed when they exercise that “power” and nothing happens.”

    If that was the result, it may at least lead to some repentance and changed hearts. My experience (and I’ll bet you can back me up on this) is that the “healer” is NEVER at fault when someone doesn’t receive an answer to a prayer. Among the reasons why: person prayed for didn’t have enough faith, God hasn’t finished the miracle yet, the person has some unrepentant sin or is not forgiving people who hurt them, and so on. When a person starts to look at believers who are hurting through those glasses, I believe they often lose any sense of compassion. It is spiritual elitism/pride in overdrive.

  27. just1ofhis says:

    Craig,
    I had to mute the first 20 seconds or so of “banshee” cry or whatever that was. The “mood” music in the background always seems so odd to me. It is such a set up and performance. Just like healers who always pray with a microphone in one hand. Please! This falls into the category of “knowing them by their fruits”. They do what they do to be seen by many. Jesus had much to say about that.

    Can you imagine Moses standing before Pharaoh with his backup band when he announced the plagues on Egypt?…cue fog machine…suspenseful drum roll…something eerie on the keyboard…darken the lights…cue flashing lights and sounds of thunder. Whatever did they do without modern technology? Oh, that’s right, they had the Most High!

  28. Craig says:

    One just has to look no further than the end of Johnson’s nose for evidence of God not healing (his glasses) all as Johnson claims. That, and the fact that his son Eric is deaf:

    http://www.bjm.org/content/13/the-value-of-mystery.html

    My oldest son, Eric, is 85 to 90% deaf in both ears. He has an amazing gift for life. He functions beautifully in the “hearing world” and has never had to learn sign language. His adjustments to life are miraculous, while his self-esteem is unaffected by this handicap. It is strong and Christ-centered. He is our Missions Pastor.

    I was fasting and praying for his healing some years ago, and God spoke to me very clearly that He was going to heal him. It has happened in the atonement, and will be seen in my lifetime. We don’t treat it as a someday off in the future God will heal Him kind of thing. We view it as a right now word. Yet he still can’t hear without the assistance of a hearing aid.

    I find it ironic that they don’t apply the doctrine known as the “already but not yet” with regard to the Kingdom (and that we are already raised up in Christ – Col 3:1-2 – but, obviously not yet) but that Johnson has this to say about healing:

    …We don’t treat it as a someday off in the future God will heal Him kind of thing. We view it as a right now word. Yet he still can’t hear without the assistance of a hearing aid.

    OK, so a healing that has obviously not manifested is not “a someday off in the future…kind of thing”; but, the Kingdom is fully available NOW.

    As to the Chuck Pierce video: That was some kinda ‘battle cry’ in the beginning of that. Where was the interpretation for that tongue? I guess it’s not necessary; it’s the ‘mood’ that counts. Yes, what would we do without modern technology?

  29. Craig says:

    I’m reminded of the movie Fallen with Denzel Washington as Detective John Hobbes who goes to the execution of convicted killer Reese who speaks some strange language which is later determined by a linguist to be Aramaic. After Reese’s death, there are a string of killings reminscent of those of the deceased killer. This is because the demon who was speaking Aramaic through Reese has entered someone else Reese touches just prior to his death who then passes it on to another and so forth. Transferable, tangible anointing anyone?

  30. Craig says:

    Something I forgot to mention about Bill Hamon. Hamon claims to have received an ‘honorary degree’ from an ‘unnamed university’ (from what I can gather). [Even more interesting he purportedly bestowed a 'doctorate' upon Cindy Jacobs.] This is why I was surprised to see the ‘Bishop’ in front of his name rather than “Dr.”.

    I’m aware that F.F. Bruce received an honorary doctorate; but, Bruce’s work has a scholarly ‘feel’ to it as opposed to Hamon’s (probably because Bruce actually nearly finished his doctorate). Hamon’s grasp of Scripture is rather poor. That is, unless most everyone else’s interpretations down the centuries are wrong while his are correct…

  31. just1ofhis says:

    I also had to mute those “tongues”. They were just disturbing.

    Regarding BJ’s son:

    While we are always right to pray for health and healing and provision for others, the greatest prayers we can pray for others are the very prayers Jesus prayed for us. I think of John 17– “Father protect them from the evil one”–or the Lord’s prayer “lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil”. I ask God daily to keep my children and those we know and love safely in His Word…to protect their hearts from all the corruptions of this day. Shouldn’t that be our ultimate focus.

    Or how about: “Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.”

    Maybe someday it will occur to BJ that God was trying to protect the heart of his son (and many of his followers) from the hardness that comes in the proclaimations:

    “Everywhere I go becomes a perfect health zone” or “I declare that I am powerful”.

    It is so important that we accept the FULL counsel of the Word of God…don’t go beyond/don’t stop short. That is the straight and narrow path.

    “It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.” (1 Pet 3:17)

    “So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.” (1 Pet 4:19)

    Suffer…according to God’s will?!? WHAT?!? At the word-of-faith church we attended for a short time they liked to repeat frequently that it was NEVER God’s will that we suffer. And, if you held up these texts to them firmly, they would tell you that you had a demon (oh, I forgot, it’s a “religious spirit” now).

    Thanks for posting all of this information, Craig.

  32. Craig says:

    2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. [James 1:2-4, TNIV]

    4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as children? It says,

    “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
    and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
    6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
    and he chastens everyone he accepts as his child.”
    7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate children at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had parents who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 Our parents disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. [Hebrews 12:4-11, TNIV; emphasis added]

  33. Carolyn says:

    The Camels are Coming! The Camels are Coming! Good to know….

    It strikes me as I’m listening to the post and these comments, that if we could see that everything being said by these false apostles (well actually the spirits behind them) is opposite of what the Word says, we would have it exactly right.

    Opposing spirits to the Word. Yup. That about sums it up.

    Craig: just listening to the video clip by Ryan Wyatt and your excerpt:

    Wyatt begins to talk about a vision in which he saw a “Birthing”.

    0:43 – “Jesus Christ has a dream. In fact, Jesus Christ has an inheritance that He can never lay hold of outside of our success as the body of Christ. Did you know that?

    “We have an inheritance in Jesus. We have an inheritance not just when we die and enter in…and actually get our glorified bodies and living in heaven. We have an inheritance NOW of tasting of the powers of the age to come living under an open heaven and releasing the kingdom on the earth. His inheritance is completely tied up with our destiny and our future. And so that’s why I know that He is not coming back for some beat up, bruised, broken bride. Jesus is coming back for a bride that’s moving in great power. But He is going to, at the same time He’s gonna to come back in great power thru us, He’s doing things to prepare us to be the body of people that we need to be in order to move in that end times shaking revival.”

    It is exactly opposite of the Scriptures you and Just1ofHis just quoted about trials and suffering and discipline. Which will it be? The Word or the opposing spirits of anti/opposite thinking? What a pathetic Jesus they (the spirits) are portraying….one who is dependent on our “success” in order to claim his inheritance!

    Kings 22 is an interesting story about when God decides to judge someone who prefers lies to truth…God actually appointed the lying spirit to deceive Ahab because Ahab declined to hear what God’s true prophet, Micaiah had to say:

    19 Micaiah said, “Therefore, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left. 20 The Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said this while another said that. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 The Lord said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.’ 23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you.”

    I wonder….

  34. Craig says:

    I mention in a footnote how Barbara Marx Hubbard’s subsequent book skips over Revelation 6:7-8; however, I did not see that on page 163 is the following:

    I, Jesus, am the Lamb. I have been given the Book of Life. It has seven seals.

    The first four seals are the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, ready to ride, but not yet riding. They wait, holding in abeyance for one more instant the dreadful process of selection:

    The White Horse and the conqueror of creature/human nature; the Red Horse and power to kill; the Black Horse and power to destroy those who are in deficiency; the Pale Horse upon whom sits the rider called Death, posed to kill those who choose to remain self-centered, with sword, with hunger, with death and with the beasts of the Earth. [emphasis added]

    Again, the term “self-centered” are those who cling to Judeo-Christian values, those who claim there’s only one way to salvation. The belief that Jesus Christ is the only one way to salvation is viewed as exclusivistic and, hence, self-centered. According to Alice Bailey there’s only one sin – the ‘sin of separatism’, the sin of being “self-centered”.

    With the above in mind, check out this earlier post – a twenty year old quote of Ted Turner in which he espouses a total world population of 250 to 350 million people (roughly the population of the US!):

    http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/ted-turners-math-problem/

  35. Steve B. (omots) says:

    Craig, a very timely post indeed!

    I know this blog is focused on discerning apostasy in the church, however this morning President Barack Obama delivered a speech at the U.N. that came right out of the Alliance of Civilization’s (one world, one “new” man) Alice Bailey playbook.

    It’s obvious to anyone who listened to Obama’s speech that our President has made the transition to a higher realm of consciousness than the rest of us. His spiritually enlightened speech admonished “extremists” for their “intolerance” and chastised world leaders for not grasping the importance of mankind’s quest for unity, freedom and democracy.

    Echoing Alice Baily perfectly, Obama believes that the greatest evil in the world resides in those who refuse to accept a universal vision that transcends our petty differences. Evil is defined by all those “bitter clingers”, all those so-called “extremists” who profess that theirs is the only way, etc.

    Here’s a few lines excerpted from Obama’s UN speech delivered just a few hours ago:

    “The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt – it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted “Muslims, Christians, we are one.”

    “It is time to heed the words of Gandhi: “Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.”

    “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.”

    “Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them.”

    “….there are billions around the globe who share similar hopes and dreams. They tell us that there is a common heartbeat to humanity.”

    “They should remind us that so long as we work for it justice will be done; that history is on our side; and that a rising tide of liberty will never be reversed.”

    Watch the video and/or read full transcript here:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/25/did-obama-stand-up-for-a-free-society-at-the-un0.html

    Those with eyes to see know God’s Kingdom is not of this earth and that our entry to it does not depend on practicing tolerance, but on putting our faith in the “Great Divider”, Jesus Christ. Those who are trying to unify the planet, and usher in a kingdom of their own making, are in for a rude awakening.

    Call me a bitter clinger, but Jesus said:

    “I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?” Luke 12:49

    “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” [Luke 12:51-53]

  36. Craig says:

    Steve,

    You wrote, “I know this blog is focused on discerning apostasy in the church, however this morning President Barack Obama delivered a speech at the U.N. that came right out of the Alliance of Civilization’s (one world, one “new” man) Alice Bailey playbook.

    You are correct; however, the same spirit behind the apostasy in the ‘Church’ is behind the legislation in the Alliance of Civilizations. The end goal is the same.

  37. tony tarr says:

    …….and the lamb,…lies down,…on brod-od-odway!,………the lamb seems right out of place on the broadway street scene………………somehow its lying there, brings a stillness to the air. HOWDY Craig,its me, tony,..saying be ever joyful, God is so Good!!!////// i’m pre-occupied with so much these days and need more down time to really read your site-posts. i’ll get there Craig,..love ya brother. Stay well in the Lord,tony in vermont,…catch me by surprize, when you can, if you can……………Suppers Ready,my friend! Horizons to you!

  38. Craig says:

    Yes, it’s nearly supper!

  39. just1ofhis says:

    Chuck’s Latest Letter
    A Time to Overthrow Thrones!
    10-10-2012

    Dear Friends:

    I have asked Anne Tate to start us on a journey of governmental praying, beginning tonight. Governmental praying shifts the way earth structures are ruled. Many of you have heard me speak of the vision God gave me of the Triumphant Reserve rising, along with Apostolic Centers (Freedom Outposts), throughout the earth. I also saw ruling governmental structures in every state and throughout nations that were causing us to not see God’s Kingdom power manifest.

    We must shift our praying beyond where we are, to dethrone these Thrones that are producing INIQUITOUS LIMITATIONS in God’s people. If we do that, we will go beyond our present limits and into the blessings that God has for us this year. This, below, will be a beginning of moving us into a new dimension of praying. All of you are invited to join Anne tonight at 7 PM in The Tabernacle for this time of shifting. If you are not able to make it to the Global Spheres Center, you can also watch by webcast.

    Blessings,
    Chuck D. Pierce

    (My emphasis)

    Iniquitous: characterized by injustice or wickedness; wicked, sinful
    Limitations: lack of capacity, restriction.

    So Chuck wants to dethrone a Power that is limiting the wickedness in God’s people?….yep, that sounds about right.

    Or maybe he never read the one about the power of Jesus being perfected in our weaknesses.

  40. Craig says:

    This is yet another call for Dominionism, attempting to build God’s Kingdom for Him. They just don’t get the fact that God’s Kingdom is not of this world.

  41. just1ofhis says:

    I posted this on M’Kayla’s blog; but it fit into the discussion here also.

    This was posted on Elijah’s list today. It is numerology, pure and simple….no better than astrological charts or daily horoscopes. It also smacks of Joel’s Army, dominionism, and the “not-so” New Age.

    “Angela Greenig:

    A New E.R.A. Has Begun: Kingdom Alignment

    This year of 2013 will be one of the greatest years of Heavenly Angelic Visitation that we have witnessed. The sky is the limit to what you can have when you pray and believe. God says that you will receive wisdom to make and fulfill destiny and dreams within your lives – dreams that you may have thought were aborted or stolen and dreams that you thought you had laid down. God says that you will walk in a greater power of the Holy Spirit. For many, this is your year of Favor and the IMPOSSIBLE becoming possible.
    The previous two years have been a time of alignment and preparation. They have been vital to the purposes and plans God has in store for each one of us that will be revealed in its fullness this year as we pray, seek and pay attention.
    Numbers are very symbolic:

    2010: [20] is redemption, and [10] means divine perfection/law/order. God’s laws had to be in place, not only in the natural but in the Spirit as well.

    2011: [11] means judgment; if you break it down it means deliverance/justice.

    2012: [12] means governmental authority that releases perfection. There are many, many facets to the number 12.

    2013: The apostolic and prophetic fathers and mothers will take their rightful seats of authority at God’s table. There will be a spiritual change this year that will charge the atmosphere. The number 13 means sin/rebellion. It is coming down. Many prodigals are and will come home this year. The number 13 also means Disciple; many will help us to release the E.R.A. (Evangelism, Radical Army). It’s the year of fulfilling the harvest. Evangelism will rise and shine upon those in great darkness.”

    http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=11741

    For the record, “20″ is NOT redemption; Jesus Christ and Him Crucified is!

  42. Craig says:

    Yup, that’s numerology.

    With the whole Mayan calendar thing a non-event, watch for New Agers to somehow capitalize on it as something that ‘happened in the spiritual’ which will eventually affect the natural. Just like Greenig states above in her mumbo jumbo following 2010. Just as in Hermeticism: “as above, so below”.

    Since Barbara Marx Hubbard claimed that ‘Mother Earth’ was pregnant and due about the same time as the ‘ending’ of the Mayan calendar, I’m sure there will be ‘acceleration’ (a popular buzz word among hyper-charismatics) in the “spiritual change this year” thus ‘charging the atmosphere’.

    As New Age, as hyper-charismaticism.

  43. M'Kayla says:

    The dawn of the age of aquarius? Peace, love and understanding? At what point exactly do these new agers and hyper charismatic false prophets think this will take place. We see people murdered all over the place, in homes, in schools – children. It no longer matters who or what you marry as long as you get to have sex. Society is out of control. I see no peace in the planetary or kingdom alignment of this man-controlled world. Not now. Not ever. Christians following these crazy words that get repeated at every turn need to wake up to what the bible says about mankind and false teachers, their rise and their demise.

  44. just1ofhis says:

    “We will see the youth crying out for the truth that only Jesus Christ can offer through a grace-based relationship. The spiritual revolution we will experience, starting this year, is an ever-increasing violent faith-attack against “religious spirits.” ”

    http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=11781

    I don’t know who John Mark Pool is (the author of the above statement), but those words leave me cold.

  45. Craig says:

    just1ofhis,

    I’ve a feeling those “religious spirits”, just like in the Jones quote in the article, are you and me.

  46. just1ofhis says:

    Because we cling to the Word that is Jesus Christ….yes and yes!

    They call us “Pharisees” in one breath and speak of “ever-increasing violent faith-attacks” in the next.

    I continue to grow in the belief that we have all been shaken out of the church system for no other reason that to “gather” in unison, and in one global voice simply state the gospel in its simplicity…

    Jesus is the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father apart from Him.

    So we share in His suffering….How unsearchable the wisdom of God!

  47. just1ofhis says:

    A bit more on “religion” from elijah’s list today:

    http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=11788

    Kim Clement:

    Two Giants Will Be Brought Down and Two Forces Will Be Released

    (Dec 31, 2012…from Israel)

    Two Giant Spirits Will Be Brought Down

    Kim C. : “Let me tell you the things that I saw when I was praying, especially today, this morning as I was praying, that there are two giant spirits that are going to be brought down. There are a lot of forces that control generations, that control cultures, and that control even seasons. A lot of people think because there’s so much evil going on that there’s no good going on. We don’t understand and realize that there’s something powerful emerging, and very few people actually get it, because you have to perceive it.”

    my quack back: “I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But AS HIS ANOINTING TEACHES YOU ABOUT ALL THINGS AND AS THAT ANOINTING IS REAL, NOT COUNTERFEIT–just as it has taught you, remain in Him.” 1 John 2:26-27…..Okay, that is the Apostle John’s quack and not mine, but “few people actually get it” is a lie out of the mouth of satan….It is what he would like all of us to believe…satan and kim clement.

    Kim C. :”The one spirit that I spoke of earlier and that I’ve taught you on was the spirit of pythos or python. Remember, when I had my vision just about the time of the election, I said that there’s a python (that speaks of a spiritual force that strangles, as you know). A python suffocates its victim. And most people don’t even know this – that a python can barely see or barely hear, but it has a tongue that senses the chemicals and the dust, so when there’s a lot of dust, it gets its victim that way. I taught the people that this force wants to strangle us, and many of you felt that suffocation.”

    “But the Spirit of the Lord spoke clearly to me and He said within the first 80-100 days, the birthing of more of these spirits is going to be crushed and destroyed. We know that, and a lot of people are saying, “But what’s going to happen in the first 80-100 days starting in January?” That’s what’s exciting about the prophetic. God will say something or speak something and we’ve got to work it out. That’s the problem; we want everything to be handed over. The thing He spoke to me about was the thing that He’s dealing with – the spirit of pythos, or python, which speaks of suffocation. Religion is the thing that suffocates a lot of people.”

    my quack back: So religion is the python suffocating people according to Kim Clement. Funny, I thought that was unrepented sin and a life separate from Jesus Christ that suffocated people.

    Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.” (John 6: 35)

    Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (John 8:34-36)

    Nope, there are no suffocating pythons in Jesus Christ; but there are a lot of complex complexities in Kim Clement.

  48. Craig says:

    Kim Clement is one of the worst of “prophetic” bunch.

  49. Carolyn says:

    Just1ofHis…”my quack back” …that quacks me up. :-)

    What these people are willing to believe from their prophets just gets uglier and uglier. They can have their silly teachings on pythros the python. I’ll take mine straight from the Word.

  50. Craig says:

    I’ve just posted a comment on another thread about a new ‘word’ by Jones as posted on Charisma:

    http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/bill-johnsons-christology-a-new-christ-part-ii/#comment-7442

  51. just1ofhis says:

    The writing is on the wall, so to speak:

    “Francis Frangipane:

    The Intensifying Presence

    We all know the unrepentant world is destined for the Great Tribulation, but as far as the living, praying Church is concerned, if we continue to climb toward the standard of Christlikeness, prior to the rapture there will be a season of great glory for true Christians.”

    http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=11809

    The book of Revelation, chapter 7, gives a preview of the risen “great multitude” in white robes worshiping God and the Lamb. John inquires about these people in verse 13; who are they and where have they come from?

    “And he said, “These are they WHO HAVE COME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

    Leaving aside the “trib” debates for a moment; if you are going to listen to Francis Frangipane, then you will be deceived into believing that the Great Tribulation is nothing more than punishment for the wicked. This was the teaching we received in the wof church. Those throughout history who have experienced Nero, the Black Plague, the Spanish Inquistion, WWI, WWII or any other war, the Great Depression, the Dust Bowl, and so on and stayed faithful to the Lord Jesus and His Holy Word would probably argue that they lived through Great Tribulation.

    Whatever your take on that, scripture is clear that those multitudes before the throne of God have come up out of a place described as “the Great Tribulation”.

    I remember a woman in the wof church going into detail with me about how “jesus” had told K.Hagin that “he” would never allow “his” children to suffer (that was confirmed in other teachings at the church); therefore she knew that she would be “raptured” before the Great Tribulation. Patient endurance of the saints is a concept utter lost to those in the wof. They are completely unprepared for any kind of trial to come. If God chooses to use tribulation to wash the dross of the wof teachings off of them, will they understand and revert back to the rock of His teaching or fall away in despair?

  52. Craig says:

    I’ve been trying to figure out 1) the specific eschatology of various teachers within hyper-charismaticism, and 2) if they all believe the same thing. The only one who has been explicit, that I’ve witnessed, is Mike Bickle with his “apostolic premillenianism”, which envisions a ‘church’ victorious in the Great Tribulation. While I cannot find anything explicit in the others I’ve seen, none that I’ve read would contradict this doctrine of Bickle’s. And this includes Frangipane’s, as evidenced by this new ‘word’ (which may have been circulating before as it looks familiar to me):

    So also will this world change spiritually as the person of the Lord Jesus and His Millennial reign draw near. The radiance of His presence will increasingly pour into the spiritual realms surrounding our world

    I see no Scriptural backup for the bolded portion (bold in original); in fact, we are told that the Lord’s ‘presence’ will come about all at once – specifically, at the Second Coming. I think it quite possible, though, to construe ‘the lawless one’s coming (parousia) as increasing just before he is revealed [2 Thes 7-10]:

    7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work [ED, in Paul's day]; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

    Frangipane’s quote above also works well as New Age / New Spirituality doctrine with the Alice Bailey “kingdom of god” increasing by the increasing numbers of individuals being ‘soul-controlled’.

  53. just1ofhis says:

    So, there was the Reformation.

    I’m thinking we ought to call this day the Resistoration. :-)

  54. Craig says:

    Thinking out loud on eschatology, there are three perspectives on the millennium differentiated by their prefixes: a-, pre-, and post-. I’m certainly no expert on this subject, but here’s my understanding.

    Most Christians have an idea of premillennialism; basically, when Jesus Christ returns it will be the end of the Church age and the millennium will begin. Amillennialism is a belief in a figurative rather than literal 1000 years which is understood as the same as – congruent with – the Church age. That is, we are currently in the millennium and it will only cease when Jesus Christ returns. CARM does a good job of summarizing, while providing a basic graphic:

    http://carm.org/amillennialism-and-premillennialism

    Within each of these views is the belief in either a pre-, mid-, or post- tribulation.

    Postmillennialism is similar to the a- view in that there isn’t a literal 1000 years. Christ will return after the millennium. In this way it is also similar to a-. However, in distinction from both the pre- and the a- view, the post- view is such that the world is increasingly ‘Christianized’, and after the world is predominantly Christian, Jesus returns. This view has generally fallen out of favor.

    Surely, there are views which differ from the above, but I’m just going for a basic overview.

    Now, looking at hyper-charismaticism I don’t see any of these views. I’ve already mentioned Bickle’s “Apostolic Premillennialism” (although he has recently stated he’s more in line with historic view – but, the historic view does not see the Church as victorious in the Tribulation. In addition, the historic view envisions a post-trib Rapture, which means it will be a time of persecution of the saints.) Frangipane’s view was also mentioned. Here’s Bill Johnson:

    …Many, if not most theologians, make the mistake of taking all the good stuff contained in the prophets and sweeping it under that mysterious rug called the Millennium. [When Heaven Invades Earth 2003, Treasure House/Destiny House, Shippensburg, PA; p 34. Emphasis in original]

    Here he’s not clear, but it almost sounds like he believes in a future millennium, though the Church will be able to do the “good stuff” now. He continues:

    A cornerstone of this theology is that the condition of the Church will always be getting worse and worse; therefore, tragedy in the Church is just another sign of these being the last days. In a perverted sense, the weakness of the Church confirms to many that they are on the right course…. [p 34]

    As I stated above, this view does not contradict Bickle’s and could well line up with his “Apostolic Premillennialism”. The biggest problem, as I see it, is Jesus’ words in the Olivet discourse:

    10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. [Matthew 24:10-13; NIV]

    And:

    “…However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” [Luke 18:8; NIV]

  55. Craig says:

    I forgot one important point. If we consider the oft-repeated Bob Jones phrase that ‘Christ is coming IN His people’ and compare this with Frangipane’s view that ‘His presence will increase’, these could well be the same thing. This then would approximate the predominant Evangelical premillennial view as the Second Coming preceding the millennium.

  56. just1ofhis says:

    Or this from Paul:

    “while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.” (2 Tim 3:13)

    Or this from Isaiah: (Isaiah 22:20-24)

    (First a prophecy ultimately fulfilled by Peter, and by the church of Jesus Christ)

    “In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. I will drive him like a peg into a firm place; he will be a seat of honor for the house of his father. All the glory of his family will hang on him: its offspring and offshoots–all its lesser vessels, from the bowls to all the jars.”

    (That all sounds really good, until you see verse 25)

    “In that day, declares the LORD Almighty, “the peg driven into the firm place will give way; it will be sheared off and will fall, and the load hanging on it will be cut down.” The LORD has spoken.

    When you hold that up to Jesus calling people out of the church in the book of Revelation and Paul’s look ahead to the days right before the coming of Jesus in 2 Thes, you see a great falling away and a major judgment coming from the hand of God Almighty against the church.

    Bill Johnson, and really all the NAR/wof types, must have a great end-time “revival” to fuel their teachings. How much money do you think people would be willing to spend if they were being prepared for the “patient endurance of the saints” required of the Great Tribulation? How many books and cds and dvds and conferences would they buy into if they were being prepared to stand firm in the Word of God amid terrible persecution and the despising glare of the world?

    No, they must sell a picture of world domination and personal glory, or they would not make a penny.

    The irony is that their will be an elect standing firm in the Word of God on the earth when Jesus returns for the day of judgment; even the gates of hell will not overcome her. BUT, she will be a persecuted “church” operating outside of any organized “church” as the world understands it, a church of insignificant people scattered from one end of the earth to the other. It will be that way, because God fulfills every word of His prophecy, and the scriptures cannot be broken.

  57. Carolyn says:

    From Craig’s comment: “10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. [Matthew 24:10-13; NIV]”

    Perilous times coming…the word perilous is literally “ragingly insane”. I think we’re at that point in North America. But in other countries, where great persecutions against Christians have arisen, we have seen betrayal and imprisonments, beatings and death, exile and confiscation of property. That part never changes.

    Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible
    And then shall many be offended,…. That is, many who had been hearers of the apostles, and professors of the Christian religion; who were highly pleased with it, and were strenuous advocates for it, whilst things were tolerably quiet and easy; but when they saw the apostles, some of them beaten, and imprisoned; others put to death, and others forced to fly from place to place; and persecutions and affliction, because of Christ and his Gospel, likely to befall themselves, would be discouraged hereby, and stumble at the cross; and fall off from the faith of the Gospel, and the profession of it:

    and shall betray one another; meaning, that the apostates, who would fall off from the Christian religion, would prove treacherous to true believers, and give in their names to the persecutors, or inform them where they were, that they might take them, or deliver them into their hands themselves: these are the false brethren, the Apostle Paul was in perils among:

    and shall hate one another; not that the true Christians should hate these false brethren, any more than betray them; for they are taught to love all men, even their enemies; but these apostates should hate them, in whose communion they before were, and to whom they belonged; and even to a very great degree of hatred, as it often is seen, that such who turn their backs on Christ, and his Gospel, prove the most bitter enemies, and most violent persecutors of its preachers and followers.

    So what is different about the persecution of Christ’s “signs of the end times”? Same thing but on a greater scale, due to Globalization? Food for thought….

  58. Carolyn says:

    Craig: – quote: “…However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” [Luke 18:8; NIV]

    Is this applicable to all believers or just the Jews? If you believe the Elect are the Jews and not Christians…then how does this verse apply to us as Christians?

    Barnes’ Notes on the Bible
    Speedily – Suddenly, unexpectedly. He will surely vindicate them, and that at a time, perhaps, when they were nearly ready to give over and to sink into despair. This may refer to the deliverance of the disciples from their approaching trials and persecutions among the Jews; or, in general, to the fact that God will interpose and aid his people.

    Nevertheless – But. Notwithstanding this. Though this is true that God will avenge his elect, yet will he find his elect “faithful?” The danger is not that “God” will be unfaithful – he will surely be true to his promises; but the danger is that his elect – his afflicted people – will be discouraged; will not persevere in prayer; will not continue to have confidence in him; and will, under heavy trials, sink into despondency. The sole meaning of this phrase, therefore, is, that “there is more danger that his people would grow weary, than that God would be found unfaithful and fail to avenge his elect.” For this cause Christ spoke the parable, and by the “design” of the parable this passage is to be interpreted.

    Son of man cometh – This probably refers to the approaching destruction of Jerusalem – the coming of the Messiah, by his mighty power, to abolish the ancient dispensation and to set up the new.

    Faith – The word “faith” is sometimes taken to denote the “whole” of religion, and it has been understood in this sense here; but there is a close connection in what Christ says, and it should be understood as referring to what he said before. The truth that he had been teaching was, that God would deliver his people from their calamities and save them, though he suffered them to be long tried. He asks them here whether, when he came, he should find “this faith,” or a belief of “this truth,” among his followers? Would they be found persevering in prayer, and “believing” that God would yet avenge them; or would they cease to pray “always, and faint?” This is not to be understood, therefore, as affirming that when Christ comes to judgment there will be few Christians on the earth, and that the world will be overrun with wickedness. That “may be” true, but it is not the truth taught here.

    The earth – The land referring particularly to the land of Judea. The discussion had particular reference to their trials and persecutions in that land. This question implies that “in” those trials many professed disciples might faint and turn back, and many of his “real” followers almost lose sight of this great truth, and begin to inquire whether God would interpose to save them. The same question may be asked respecting any other remarkable visitation of the Son of God in affliction. When tried and persecuted, do “we” believe that God will avenge us? Do “we” pray always and not faint? Have “we” faith to believe that, though clouds and darkness are round about him, yet righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne? And when storms of persecution assail us, can “we” go to God and confidently commit our cause to him, and believe that he will bring forth our righteousness as the light, and our judgment as the noon-day?

    On thing for sure, I don’t see a great utopian society developing anywhere in Scripture(or in reality for that matter), until Christ returns and his feet touch to the Mount of Olives. Then we’re gonna see some changes for the better!

  59. Craig says:

    Carolyn,

    To answer your questions, this verse, when put into its full context (18:1-8), is directed at Christians.

  60. just1ofhis says:

    “On his blog, Kolenda said of the outpouring of healings, “It was holy chaos! The sick were healed in huge numbers—all in the name and to the glory of Jesus Christ! When I preached the gospel, the response of the crowd was so overwhelming It literally hurt my ears! The blind were healed, the cripples walked, cancers disappeared. I don’t think my description can do it justice.”

    He added, “We are surely in for a wild week!” ”

    http://www.charismanews.com/world/38017-miraculous-healings-sweep-through-ivory-coast

    But the fruit of the Spirit of God is gentleness…self-control…..

    “holy chaos”?

    a response so loud that “it hurt his ears”?

    Hundreds of thousands of “decisions for “christ” “?

    All, WE BORE THEM TO TEARS.

    I don’t know about you, but when God opened my ears to “hear the Gospel”, I was completely destroyed. Oh, how it hurt to understand the meaning of “sin”. Joy in understanding the depth of His forgiveness is a gentle and humble thing that does not hurt anyone’s ears.

    How are we to be heard amid the decibels of the crowd?

    So, I was visiting my trusty dictionary to be sure that I had spelled the correct “bore”; when the LORD drew my eyes to this:

    BORE: an abrupt rise of tidal water moving rapidly inland from the mouth of an estuary.

    Interesting…..

  61. just1ofhis says:

    This is a tidal bore. The water from the tide pushes against the current of the river. It is fairly uncommon globally.

  62. Craig says:

    I saw that Charisma piece. While I’m certainly skeptical of any proclaimed healing, I don’t want to completely deny the possibility that any of this is true, as I do believe God can heal either by His own divinity or through His saints today. I think it even possible that some got healed at Lakeland, despite Bentley. And, I also believe in occult ‘healings’, as Satan has been given miraculous powers in the OT (staff turning to snake, supernatural happenings against Job and his family, etc.). Perhaps Satan can lift sickness that he had formerly placed on someone? I dunno.

    But, I have some serious doubt about ‘hundreds of thousands of “decisions for Christ”‘.

  63. Craig says:

    I should also add that Craig Keener, a Christian scholar whose works I admire (that I have in my library or have seen), has a 2-volume work which defends the accounts of miracles in the Bible as well as presents evidence of miracles since that time:

    I have this set, but, sadly, I’ve not even cracked it open just yet, as I’m always reading other things while working on other projects. Unfortunately, I’ve seen some hyper-charismatics promoting this work to lend credibility to their own false teachings.

    I especially like Keener’s commentary on the Gospel of John.

  64. Carolyn says:

    Ah…that’s your take on Luke 18:1-8…well I’ve never really taken a closer look at that verse in context but it’s a “stand out kind of statement” and it once again caught my attention this morning. When I was reading over your “thinking out loud” thoughts… since your were thinking out loud, I thought I might do the same. No harm in thinking out loud…except when you’re me.

  65. Carolyn says:

    For some reason, I would like to clarify my statement: “No harm in thinking out loud…except when you’re me.”

    Just making sure that it was not construed as anything less than something to lighten the mood. I don’t undervaluate the Holy Spirit’s role in myself or any other Christian, although I do defer to someone else’s opinion on occasion. But the fact is that the gospel is simple and sometimes we complicate it with over-stressing the technical or we stress ourselves by being too anxious over the technical or we stress each other out because of our opinions on the technical, forgetting about the big picture (Christ).

    Remembering that we are here for encouragement and edification, not only for being right unless it is giving factual evidence with regards to discerning Error and upholding Truth.

    I’m here to remind you to “keep your stick on the ice” and have a great day in the Lord!

    “Keep your stick on the ice” (from the Urban Dictionary)
    The most basic and important piece of advice in hockey (and maybe even in life).
    Also possibly the most repeated advice from coaches, often screamed in frustration when some knob misses an easy tip into a wide open net because his/her stick is nowhere near the ice, or the goalie lets in a soft five-hole goal for the same reason.
    The meaning is twofold:
    First, be ready for anything. Hockey is fast and the difference in a one-goal game could be the result of your stick placement (applies to everyone, goalies included).
    Second, chill out; keep it simple. It can be easy to over-complicate things and to try too hard when you get into a slump. Don’t over-think it; just keep your stick on the ice and things will work themselves out.

    We can use our time for stick bashing, or we can use it for the good of the team. Thank you for all the comments this week…I have benefited not only from the theological brilliance, but also from the Spirit of Love that shines through on this blog…God bless!

  66. Craig says:

    I understood your comment. I appreciate your input, and I appreciate all others’ – even if I may disagree, as I’m certainly not the final arbiter of truth.

  67. just1ofhis says:

    Craig, I wasn’t sure where to post this. When I think of just sitting back for a time and saying nothing, I read something like this and am reminded blatantly of where this is all heading.

    Francis Frangipane, on elijahslist, describing a “frightening warrior king” he believes to be “christ”: (This is some of the most blunt “anti-christ” prepping I have ever seen.)

    “There is something about the time just prior to a move of God that causes many to wonder if the Lord is for them or against them. He seems confrontational – too intense, too “different” from the One we have learned to trust. Yet during these last few years, this is exactly the situation in the Lord’s relationship with the Church. The Lord has stood before us with His sword drawn. He is calling us to follow Him in war.

    Perhaps you have been through a time where the tip of Christ’s sword seemed aimed straight at your heart. Let me reassure you, God is for you. In fact, it is His expressed purpose to release this same “sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God” (Ephesians 6:17), through your words and prayers. But before the Lord’s sword will come through your mouth, it must first pass through your heart.

    Do not withdraw or be terrified at this new unveiling of the Son of God, for He is, in fact, fitting you for battle. By the time you are fully trained, you will be a fearless warrior in His army. Yet we must be realistic about our current state: most of us have been pampered and undisciplined. We have not understood the day of warfare that looms before us. Nor are we prepared for the final raging of satan as his time shortens (see Revelation 12:12).

    Isaiah tells us that “The Lord will go forth like a warrior, He will arouse His zeal like a man of war. He will utter a shout, yes, He will raise a war cry. He will prevail against His enemies” (Isaiah 42:13). We have known the Lord as our Savior and our Shepherd. These revelations of our beloved Master are no less true because a new aspect of His nature is revealed. It is simply that this new dimension is so startlingly different from how we have known Him. Be of good cheer, this frightening Warrior King, with His sword drawn, with the shout of war upon His lips, is the same blessed Savior who died on the Cross for our sins.

    Yet in truth, we cannot soften the shock of this great unveiling of Christ. Our immediate dismay shall be in no way less dramatic than that which was revealed to Joshua on the plains of Jericho. Our concepts will be shaken and fears confronted.”

    http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=11901

    Let’s see, a “new dimension” of the “master” being “revealed” that is “startlingly different from how we have known him” to the point of “shocking” and “dismaying” us at his “great unveiling”. I dunno….that sounds like the antichrist to me.

  68. Craig says:

    just1ofhis,

    This is the right place to put your comment, as it’s right on point with the subject of ‘Christians’ as warriors in a physical sense rather than metaphorical. Ephesians 6:17, when placed in proper context, is telling us over and over to “stand”, so the “sword of the Spirit” to which Paul refers is simply the written Word of God upon which we are to “stand”. That is, just like Jesus in the wilderness, we are to answer Satan’s attacks with Scripture. And, Isaiah 42:13 is generally viewed as being metaphorical, not actual. And, while Matthew records Jesus as saying, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword” [10:34], by placing this in proper context, Jesus is merely saying that because of our faith, we will be at odds with members of our own family [10:35-37].

    Yet, in Revelation 19, we see a clear picture of Jesus as Warrior King; however, this is not until the Second Coming:

    11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

    KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

    17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

    While some may disagree, I believe the “sharp sword with which to strike down the nations” is also the Words of Scripture, of Jesus, of judgment – not a literal sword with which to do a literal battle – as Jesus literally slays His adversaries by His Words. In any case, the main point here is that this happens at the eschaton, the end of all things; it does not happen before Jesus physically returns.

  69. Craig says:

    Chuck Pierce is inviting us to come with him and his troupe and go along “Crossing the Bridge to Your Future!”

    http://gloryofzion.org/gatherings/passover2013/

    This is the same as point #3 as in the article: “Cross the Bridge of the Past and Enter the Glory of the Future!”

    As Christians, one of the most important times of the year for us to remember and celebrate is Passover. In this year, 2013-5773, of bridging our past and future, I believe this Passover is particularly important as we celebrate pressing through a narrow place of confinement to enlargement, and from captivity to freedom!…Let this Passover be a time when you leave the bondages of the past and cross over to a place of recovery, restoration and resurrection power!

    Same song, pretty much same dance. Enter your ‘glory’ as manifested sons/daughters of God. “resurrection power” = MSOG.

    Pierce’s “cross over to a place of recovery, restoration and resurrection power!” – could this be akin to Alice Bailey’s 4th initiation, “dying to self” via ‘the cross’ aka ‘the Great Renunciation (bringing forth the ‘inner Christ’/divine nature by divesting oneself of the human nature), and arising via our own resurrection – Bailey’s 5th initiation – and thereby achieving “resurrection power” (MSOG)? [See here for Bailey's 5 initiations and how they may well compare to Bill Johnson's Christology/theology.]

  70. Carolyn says:

    ok…nothing deep here…just an observation. Last time for one of their conventions, I distinctly remember the camels were crossing the bridge into the future. What happened to the camels??

  71. Carolyn says:

    another observation. QUOTE FROM ARTICLE: “You will also want to see the new growth in the Israel Prayer Garden and spend time before the Cross in the Gentile Garden.”

    What on earth are they separating the gardens for? GENTILE GARDEN????!!! As for “YOU WILL WANT TO SPEND TIME BEFORE THE CROSS…another mystical, experience/icon oriented practice…since Luke 24:6 states: “He is not here, but is risen…”

    Craig said, “pretty much the same song, same dance……… Bailey’s 5 initiations and how they may well compare to Bill Johnson’s Christology/theology.”

    ….you mean Bill Johnson’s Christology/theosophy…

    I was looking up some definitions of theosophy…and I think I like “Divine Wisdom”…it seeks to find life in the human soul and activate it through Divine Knowledge (vain philosophy).

    And how is this different from True Wisdom? The solution for sin is different. It’s not knowledge, it’s Christ’s atonement. Yes, Divine Wisdom comes from Satanic sources and Truth…well, there’s only One…Jesus the Son of God, who was manifested in the Flesh and paid the penalty for our sins with his own blood. They have the message, but it is obscured by Divine Wisdom, Theosophy, Gnosticism, Mysticism, Spiritual Formation, Occult Experience and Vain Philosophy.

  72. Craig says:

    Just keep in mind that the basis for all these teachings comes from 1st/2nd century Gnosticism, with the root of this word, gnosis, referring to special/secret knowledge. According the Johnson, how does one’s inner “seed” grow? By the ‘seed of “God’s Word”, the “rhema” word, ‘new revelation’, i.e. secret knowledge or gnosis. For Johnson et al it’s a mystery yet to be revealed. It is for this reason that the Apostle Paul states that the mystery has already been revealed – in Christ’s atoning work on the Cross. All we have to do is accept by faith, not by doing works, which is truly the basis of hyper-charismaticism. There’s always MORE in hyper-charismaticism.

  73. just1ofhis says:

    http://www.weather.com/travel/worlds-most-terrifying-bridges-20130305

    “World’s most terrifying bridges”….Somehow they overlooked the “new age” bridge being built by Chuck Pierce.

    This is just a personal observation. When I was in the WOF church, the most infuriating thing to me was a sense of always striving toward something. A person was never beyond needing deliverance. There was always a deeper/higher/more perfect place to get in this life, and you never could quite “get there”, although the top “prophets” (much like new age “masters”) were your example. For a fee, they will share their “knowledge” with you. It is an endless pursuit that leads to “spiritual bondage”…people keep diving deeper and deeper into the well trying to attain that “secret knowledge”.

    There was never just resting in the simple truth that “It is finished”, not by our hands, but by the hands that God fashioned for Himself in His Son, Jesus Christ. Of course, that message doesn’t sell books.

  74. Carolyn says:

    Just1ofhis… I’m still laughing at how insanely terrifying that looks. Speaking of terrifying bridges, we have one that was just built for 3.3 billion (total cost) and lookie here…
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/01/03/bc-port-mann-delays.html
    ice building up on the cables and falling on windshields…no words…

    Brilliant personal observation. That’s so it in a nutshell…always trying to get there but never reaching the destinination…Divine Destiny…as they like to call it.

    Craig…re your comparison of the mystery yet to be revealed versus the mystery already revealed. That captures the essence of false teaching…I like it!!!

  75. Craig says:

    As for the mystery revealed in Christ, here are a few Scriptures: 1 Cor 2:6-8; Eph 3:3-9; Col 1:25-27; Col 4:3; 1 Tim 3:16.

  76. just1ofhis says:

    “When we utter praise to God our spirit finds release, awakening ourselves to revelation of our oneness with God.” John Belt

    http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=11983

    The statement above was bolded. It is pretty much in-your-face new age, imo. If they won’t repent, then my prayer is that God open their mouths in such a way that those who love His Word can’t help but be driven away from them.

  77. Craig says:

    Yes, I agree. The term “awakening” is a common New Age term. Actually, I find the first bolded statement even more blatant:

    When we are awakened to His life, the reality of His Spirit is very tangible to us.

    One becomes “awakened” initially by the ‘Christ anointing’. Then, this ‘Christ Spirit’ ["His Spirit" in the above] becomes ‘tangible’, just like the tangible transferable ‘anointing’ of hyper-charismaticism. It’s just like that described as “the force” in Star Wars. Let NOT “the force” be with you!

  78. just1ofhis says:

    Speaking of “force”, this quote is off the front page of an ELCA church that I am familiar with:

    “Our Pastors, (names left out intentionally) sermons are full of insightful stories that have real-life meaning and scriptural relevance, all while being engaging and full of life-force.”

    This is a church that has NOTHING to do with the WoF doctrine. However, the ELCA is actively promoting Rob Bell’s NOOMA series. 20 years ago in the ELCA (at least in our neck of the woods) you would have never heard anything as ridiculous as a “life-force” filled sermon. But, it is the same “new age” terminology that is cropping up everywhere else.

    All wrong roads lead to….

  79. Craig says:

    I just saw something interesting as I was coming back from lunch. In front of me was a mid-level Mercedes Benz (couldn’t make out model) with license plate of “LK 4-18″ – an obvious reference to Luke 4:18:

    “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
    Because He has anointed Me
    To preach the gospel to the poor;
    He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
    To proclaim liberty to the captives
    And recovery of sight to the blind,
    To set at liberty those who are oppressed…”

    I’m well aware that some in hyper-charismaticism use this verse to apply to themselves, as, essentially, little christs/gods. Yet, it’s quite clear this verse refers to Jesus Himself as He states in verse 20, “…Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing”.

  80. just1ofhis says:

    And the counter-punch would be:

    A rusted out pick-up truck sputtering down a dirt road with the license plate “LK 18-13″.

  81. Craig says:

    Good one!

  82. just1ofhis says:

    The following is a very transparent schooling on how the false prophets win followers for themselves among people with itching ears: (hint, wait until after some major event has happened and then tell some puffed-up “spiritual” story about it that gives your false ministry “credibility”…pathetic).

    http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=12149

    Maybe the next conference will be “One New Green Man”…..

  83. just1ofhis says:

    This is Doug Addison (who was featured today on Elijah List)….

  84. Craig says:

    And only $79!! He must REALLY be gifted at tattoo reading. I wonder if he’d take some genuine snake oil for trade?

  85. Arwen4CJ says:

    Ick. I just looked at the Elijah List link — and I saw all the pleas for money both above and below Doug’s “word.” That was disgusting to see….and it was also disgusting to read the message.

    I live in Ohio…and I don’t want anything big happening in the hyper-charismatic movement. This very well could be just a false prophecy, and nothing happens. However, if it’s a demonic prophecy, then that will mean that a lot of prayer will be needed. Anytime anything “big” happens with hyper-charismatics, deception always follows.

    I should point out that predicting the future isn’t always something done by the power of the Holy Spirit. I may have shared this story before — but during my freshmen year in college several students who were into wicca “knew” something would happen right before 9/11, and they didn’t just say this after the event. Rather, it was before…these individuals were terrified of what would happen on Tuesday (and this was several days before 9/11). I remember the conversation that I had with them well because of how scared these girls were. They didn’t know what it would be, but they just kept on saying something bad would happen.

    I’m of the opinion that the only way they were able to “know” about this was because demons had planned it, and demons revealed that something bad would happen in order to make them scared, and even more scared when something bad DID happen.

  86. Arwen4CJ says:

    Oh, so the point here is that sometimes demonic prophecies do come true — but I think that the purpose of that is to keep people in bondage to the demons. After all if something is predicted, and then it happens, it “must” be from God, right?

    Well, we know differently. Of course some of these guys also peddle around false prophecy, claiming they knew something only after the fact. Unless they give their “word” before, we don’t know which it is. Both are equally deceptive — one comes directly from demons, and the other is human deception.

  87. Craig says:

    No doubt there are “words” that are of Satan and, hence, not of God. This is discussed in Deuteronomy 13:

    13 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. [NIV]

    Here we mustn’t think that these guys will literally state, “Let’s follow other gods”; this is an example of figurative language.

  88. just1ofhis says:

    Right, the “gods” are the “gods of their belly”…They want money, power, and attention. And telling people how “god” called you on your cell phone sells stuff. Telling people how to do a “prophetic” reading of tattoos (and piercings) sells stuff. It is no better than tea leaf reading or palm reading or any other form of witchcraft.

    I know a woman who was “healed” by a Word-of-Faith pastor a few years back. This woman was able to successfully stop taking medication for a very serious illness. Her story was held up in the church as the glowing example of the results of “positive confession” and “faith”. Flash forward a couple of years…she is dead. I don’t know the details, but I know that she has died at a very young age. You won’t EVER hear that part of the story in that church. Where is this long life that they promised her if she would only have faith? Where was her health and wealth? What happened to her healing? Did she not have strong enough faith, so the healing didn’t stick…even though they taught her that it was God’s will for her life?

    God is Sovereign. Period. It is in His Hands and He will used it for His purpose. I often do not understand these things, but I trust that He has it in His Hands. Do we love Him with all our heart and soul? Then we love His Word with the same passion and commitment, and we will make every effort to continue in His teachings and mature in Him.

    I believe that Kenneth Hagin died in a cardiac intensive care unit in his early 80′s. William Branham died in his mid-60s after lingering for days with injuries suffered in a car wreck. You can make a very long list of false teachers and their bad fruit/misfortunes/untimely deaths. And yet people keep following them. When I was in the Word-of-Faith church, they loved to share the story of Hagin’s great healing as a young man (from a diseased heart). They NEVER share with you the story of where or how he died. It doesn’t fit the narrative, does it?

    Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh. If a person does not hold fast to the very Words of God, love those Words, and seek to obey them; they do not love Him….

    God made it simple, so the least of us could grasp it (and $79 to learn how to do a “prophetic reading” of a tattoo isn’t even close).

  89. Craig says:

    Here’s another apropos OT Scripture (Micah 2:11, NIV):

    11 If a liar and deceiver comes and says,
    ‘I will prophesy for you plenty of wine and beer,’
    that would be just the prophet for this people!

    Here is an excerpt of Sandy Simpson’s comments on Hagin’s death:

    …Notice that it propagates the old story of Hagin being healed of a “deformed heart” and blood disease, yet he died in a “cardiac intensive care unit” where he stuggled for life from 9/14 to 9/23/2003. If he had been truly healed of heart problems, why did he die of them? Does God take back divine healing? The fact is these false healers who claim to have a special healing anointings and such an abundance of faith that they can heal multitudes always run to the emergency room of the local hospital the minute they get sick…

    http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/hagandies.html

    This is where the health and wealth gospel falls into logical fallacy: If one believes in the “all with enough faith will be healed” then it should follow that there’d be individuals well over 100 years old in excellent health, who should continue and not actually ever die. Even if they should die, they should be “healed” from death.

  90. Arwen4CJ says:

    “Here we mustn’t think that these guys will literally state, “Let’s follow other gods”; this is an example of figurative language.”

    I actually think it can be both literal and figurative here — as someone who does say “let’s follow a false god” would be a false prophet. It will probably be a little more subtle than that, but I do think it’s possible for it to be literal, too. (Like someone might say, “I heard about this great healing service done by pagans, let’s see if we can get healed there.) (Or, there is power in wicca — maybe we should follow that religion, too, and be Christian witches….)

    Or even something like, “you know…..at my church people get healed all the time, there are a lot of prophecies that come true, and God’s moving in a mighty way here. People see angels, there is gold dust, gems, gold teeth, people get drunk, and we also hear great testimonies of what God is doing. Our pastors don’t even have to preach from the Bible anymore or really give sermons. God just shows up and people love it.”

    A discerning individual would know that none of these gods are the real God. The last example would be the most subtle, as it sounds Christian on the surface, but the doctrine is unsound, so it isn’t our God that is being promoted.

    And yes, there are also also false gods like power and money and so forth that these false teachers preach.

    And, yeah, divination under any name is still divination. “Reading” tattoos and whatnot….that is still divination. People in these hyper-charismatic churches think it is okay because the people there talk about God and use the name Jesus and whatever….deception.

    While I do believe that God sometimes does warn people about the future, or might give someone a word — the purpose of these things is different from what goes on in hyper-charsmatic churches, and I think these things occur a lot less frequently than those in these churches would like.

    Some of the problem is that people want God to be always “doing” something that they can see. So some of it could be attributed to reading things that aren’t there, but in those cases, it still serves Satan. It still takes people’s eyes off of God and the real gospel, and puts it on signs and wonders and power and excitement and whatever. In that kind of environment, Satan could introduce the demonic readily, because people want to see stuff happen.

    There seems to be this expectation that if we pray for healing, then we are saying that God HAS to do something, and then when that person doesn’t get better, or dies, then it hurts people’s faith in God. They can become disillusioned. All of these things also serve Satan. People get confused, and just try all the harder to see signs and wonders and miracles happen. It’s almost like that is what some of these individuals live for.

    When I left the Vineyard in my hometown, one of the comments that someone had made to me went something like this, “Without the stuff from Bethel, things aren’t happening here. At Bethel they do. People get healed all the time, there are all kinds of signs and wonders. We’re going to have to get what they have there, because they have it.”

    It’s this idea that we need more, that we need to see more, that we need to experience more…..sigh…..and to think that the only place to “get it” is from “power stations” like Bethel and whatever.

    Many who are hungry for power don’t seem to care about doctrine. All the seem to care about is results. They want spiritual experiences and they want to see God doing things. They want to feel all caught up in something.

    A church doesn’t even have to be Word Of Faith to get wrapped up in all this. I think a person slowly moves in the WOF direction by listening to the most popular hyper-charismatic teachers — but just thinking that God has to do what we pray because we ask, or expecting power to happen because we are Christians, etc…all of that gets people into trouble.

    When people become obsessed with this stuff then they are already under deception. Any sign or wonder or prophetic word that seems to suggest that God is “doing something” puts people in more and more bondage. It all serve Satan’s scheme. People are so thirsty for something to happen that they will tolerate many “words” that don’t come true just to find the one that seems to. Then they call that person a prophet of God, and someone to be respected.

    But prophecy isn’t only about speaking words that come true. Prophecy also involves just speaking God’s truth, which includes convicting words — things that point people back to God. But it seems that these hyper-charismatics generally ignore that part of prophecy, as they are so wrapped up in divination and reading signs and visions and things…..and they don’t even realize that they are the very definition of a false prophet.

  91. just1ofhis says:

    Chuck Pierce on the Elijah list: http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=12613

    Incredible Prophecy: “Hear the Clock Ticking! You Have Been Catapulted Into the Three Years Ahead!”

    (my note: whew, incredible!…however, if Jesus returns tomorrow–normal human time–you are going to miss it)

    I know that so many of you have enjoyed watching the webcast replays from our Head of the Year 5774. Below is some of the prophetic revelation that came forth during our gatherings. Let this be a time you are propelled into your future and press through every gate of destiny!

    “The Kingdoms of this Earth Are Becoming My Kingdoms!”

    Hear the clock ticking”Hear the clock ticking, for I have now catapulted you into the three years ahead.

    “This month, the dearest of My months, I am moving you against gates that have never been moved against before. I am causing these gates that have withstood you in the past to come loose and open in days ahead! Move strategically day-by-day and month-by-month until the gate that has held back your blessing opens up. If you will move now, within the next three years the land you find yourself in will be producing great treasures.

    “In the third year, the War of the Kingdoms will begin, and Kingdom will rise against kingdoms. The kingdoms of this world will also come into great conflict. I have a Kingdom that I am preparing. I will remember this Kingdom and the Seed and the Seed’s seed of this Kingdom. I have a Kingdom that will triumph!

    “Shout that the kingdoms of this earth are becoming My Kingdoms! Decree that the prisoners will be let go and they will come back to My house; this is a season when My altar will be filled! I’m going to open your eyes to those around you, and you’re going to say, ‘They’re of a different kingdom.’ And I will say to you, ‘They are Mine! Bring them in now!’

    (my note: that sounds like the “seed” of a universalist/new age mentality–doesn’t matter if they are Christians or not, bring them in)

    “Beyond the gates, I am opening up new highways. I am beginning a highway out of Egypt! I will redo the highway that you’re presently walking on.

    “The demons that have been trafficking and even creating trafficking throughout the earth, I Am now going to un-nest their headquarters. That which the enemy meant to destroy through trafficking, I will raise up as an unstoppable army in the days ahead, for that generation will be My generation! I call you, ‘My Army that is Unstoppable!’ I call you, ‘My Kingdom Swarm,’ and you shall invade the kingdoms of the earth. You shall extract that which is needed and you will bring it into My Kingdom.

    “You’ll Hear of Shakings From North to West!”

    They will bow their knees”I will surprise you with the leaders of nations. I have ways to cause leaders that have been promoted to bow their knees. You will think they’re going one way, but you watch Me knock the feet out from under them; you watch them see Me in a way they’ve never seen Me before!

    “Make ‘favor’ with those that come onto your highway. Many of you will say, ‘But they have evil character.’ Just remember, I can cause every Pharaoh in this land and the lands that you’re a part of to favor you in days ahead!

    (my note: again, universalist/new age flavor)

    “You’ll hear of shakings from north to west! You’ll hear that I have come from Alaska to Maine to shake. But know this: I will shake the center of this nation called the United States of America. I will cause that which has been hidden and controlling the forces of this land to shake down!

    “A new baptism I’ll give you, and My very finger I will place in My people’s keeping. When you point your finger, demons will flee!

    (my note: “a new baptism” crosses from the delusions of a poor, lost soul to outright blasphemy of the Holy Spirit of God from one who professes to be a teacher….)

    “In this year of honey, I will cause a new hunger to arise throughout the lands for My Word. And where you have known My Word in the past, you will taste and see My Word in a different way!”

    (my note: They refuse to love the Truth as it was for once and all given to the saints of God. They want new and different. For that reason God sends a powerful delusion…)

  92. Craig says:

    Chuck Pierce always has such a positive message! All those exclamation points!!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 234 other followers

%d bloggers like this: