Misplaced Trust, part II

[Part I here]

Spirituality and the United Nations

The UN is “an international organization formed after World War II in 1945 to promote international peace, security and cooperation under the terms of the Charter of the United Nations.”[1]  On a website detailing the “Evolution of The Great Invocation“[2,3] – a prayer for the New World Religion (and to Lucifer and his demons) – is found the following:

“…The United Nations Conference on International Organization convened on April 25, 1945 in San Francisco, for five days right at the time of the Wesak. (That year the Taurus full moon fell on April 27.)” [4] [Emphasis mine]

The Wesak Full Moon Ritual[5] is a celebration of the ‘birth and enlightenment of Buddha.’[6] It is one of three major festivals known in the occult and all three are centered around full moons.  The other two are the Easter Festival (Aries full moon of late March into April) and The Christ’s Festival (Gemini full moon – late May into June).  It’s interesting that this initial meeting of the UN was held right smack in the middle of an important occult/esoteric holiday celebrated by the New Age / New Spirituality.

 The Charter of the United Nations was signed on June 26 (exactly one month after the Gemini full moon of 1945, on May 26) and enacted on October 24, 1945, with the 51 signatures representing all sections of the planet.[7]

Since 1952, World Invocation Day[8] has been observed during the “Festival of the Christ” (or Festival of Humanity / Festival of Goodwill) “to invoke and evoke healing energies for the United Nations and Planet Earth.”[9]  According to the spokesperson of the 2010 event, Ida Urso, Phd., World Invocation Day is “a culminating point – providing a crescendo of revelation which can lead to transformative planetary changes.”[10]  Obviously, New Agers hold the United Nations in high regard and hopes or expects the UN to play a key role in the future of our planet’s “healing.”

“In complete, focused silence, visualize the United Nations’ General Assembly, overshadowed by the Avatar of Synthesis and infused by the Love of the Hierarchy and the Christ.  Meditate on the Purpose that seeks to guide the ‘little wills of men.’” [11] [as per original]

“Overshadowed” is a euphemism for demonic control/possession, the “Hierarchy” in this context is the collective of Satan’s demons and “the Christ” is Lucifer who will likely embody the coming antichrist.  The “little wills of men” is taken from The Great Invocation.

The UN has its own meditation room:

“We all have within us a center of stillness surrounded by silence.  This house, dedicated to work and debate in the service of peace, should have one room dedicated to silence in the outward sense and stillness in the inner sense.” [12]

The above quote is by Dag Hammarskjold, former Secretary-General of the United Nations from 1953 to 1961.  The Meditation Room opened in 1957.

Beginning in 1970, the late Sri Chinmoy began leading “The Peace Meditation at the United Nations.”  [See Chinmoy's influence on guitarists John McLaughlin and Carlos Santana below in the "New Age / New Spirituality in Contemporary Culture" section.]  This group consisted of UN staff, UN-accredited journalists, delegates, and representatives of NGOs (non-governmental organizations recognized by the UN).[13]  Chinmoy, from his book The Garland of Nation-Souls: Complete Talks at the United Nations, is quoted:

“…Man has to realize what he eternally is: God Himself.  Man is now God veiled; with patience-light man will unveil his inner divinity.  Man is God yet to be consciously and constantly realized, and God is man yet to be manifested totally, completely and unmistakably here on earth.” [14]

“In the evolutionary process of human life, the first rung of the ladder is the United Nations, the second rung is world-union and the third rung is man’s total and perfect Perfection.” [15]

Lucis Trust enjoys “consultative status” with the UN as an NGO[16] – an organization which was “placed on the roster by virtue of action taken by the Economic and Social Council on the recommendation of the Committee on Non-Governmental Organizations” –  since 1989[17].  One of Lucis Trust’s affiliates, World Goodwill, is recognized by the UN Non-Governmental Liaison Service as having provided assistance (and I assume ongoing assistance) in “Consultation on the Commission of Experts of the President of the UN General Assembly on Reforms of the International Monetary and Financial System.”  World Goodwill provided opinion in three areas:[18] “Financial regulation, macroeconomic issues and addressing the crisis.”[19] Obviously, Lucis Trust wields a fair amount of influence at the United Nations

Eugene Peterson’s Message

It seems Lucis Trust’s influence has even, perhaps indirectly, extended to at least one ‘rendition’ of the Holy Bible.   Eugene Peterson’s The Message “paraphrase” of the Bible is littered with references to New Age Spirituality and the occult.  While I’m certainly not of the ‘King James only’ persuasion (obviously not, as I quote primarily from the NIV), this website[20], which appears to be of the KJB-only camp, quite thoroughly displays the obvious Theosophical/New Age/occult backdrop of Peterson’s “paraphrase.”  (To be clear: I’m not fully endorsing this website as I believe every Bible translation has strengths and weaknesses – some more so than others – however, I cannot, in good conscience, extract the information from this article without providing proper attribution to the source.)  The next two paragraphs will illustrate just a fraction of the information gleaned and verified from this article.

The Message (TMsg) not once puts the words “Lord” and “Jesus” together as in “Lord Jesus,” yet the other translations I checked contain at least 100 different references to our Lord Jesus.  Instead, TMsg has “Master Jesus” 73 times; whereas, the others have no references like this with the exception of the NCV with one.  The obvious question is: why?  As discussed in part I of this article in “The ‘Master Jesus’ and the ‘Christ’ of  Lucis” section, to the New Ager, Jesus was a man who attained the title of “Master” through self-effort by the “Christ” within Him and “the Christ” which overshadowed Him. [See "Christ" in the New Age article for more 'illumination.']  He is now an Ascended Master along with Buddha among others; and, we too have the potential to attain to “master” level.  This is a consistent theme in the Alice Bailey books.

“There is a growing and developing belief that Christ is in us, as He was in the Master Jesus…” [21]

Similarly, TMsg uses “the one” and “oneness” – terms and their particular usage of which are foreign to other translations.  And, once again, these are common New Age / New Spirituality terms.  Peterson even stoops so low as to gratuitously use the Lord’s name in vain in Micah 3:5.  I will let the reader investigate this as I cannot bring myself to display its usage here.

TMsg absolutely butchers the “Lord’s Prayer” as Berit Kjos identifies (and much more) in her post from 1993 What kind of message is THE MESSAGE?[22] Of particular note is Peterson’s “paraphrase” of ‘on earth as it is in heaven’ which he renders “as above, so below.”  The passage, to me, is quite fine on its own in standard Bible translations.  In contrast, the paraphrase adds more ambiguity rather than clarity since “above” could mean any number of things (clouds, atmosphere, sun, moon, etc.) as could “below” (depths of the sea, underground, the underworld).  Isn’t the main purpose of paraphrasing to clarify rather than obfuscate?

Unfortunately, there’s a much more sinister application of the words “as above, so below.”  A former occultist and Temple Master in the “Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn” designated with the pseudonym “Peter Lanz” to protect his identity, is quoted from Kjos’ site: 

“‘I was taught in ritual magick how to go to different planes of existence outside the physical body,’ continued Peter.  ‘I could create a realm there in which I could practice ritual magick and perfect my magical skills.  What I did on the physical plane was what I practiced on the astral plane through creative visualizations.  Through my will and imagination, I made things happen on the physical plane.  As above, so below! This ritual magick is a manifestation of the power of your will.’” [23] [bolding added]

The bolded portion above should be very familiar to many from a charismatic background although it’s usually rendered something like, “What happens in the spiritual affects the natural” or vice versa and variations thereof.   Here is one such usage by Lou Engle from September, 2009 on the Elijah List:

“…The natural things speak of the invisible.  Natural happenings on the earth are revealing something that is going on in the spiritual realm….” [24] [emphasis in original]

“As above, so below.” This phrase comes from  Hermeticism — the name of which is taken from the Greco-Egyptian god Hermes Trismegistos, the god of wisdom and magic, or Thoth[25] – and which in turn is taken from a document known as The Emerald Tablet.[26]

Here is co-founder of the Theosophical Society’s Helena Petrovna Blavatsky’s (HPB) paraphrase of The Emerald Tablet:

“What is below is like that which is above, and what is above is similar to that which is below to accomplish the wonders of the one thing.

 “…Ascend with the greatest sagacity from earth to heaven, and unite together the power of things inferior and superior….”   [27]

If this is the sort of thing Peterson is promoting I think it best to stay away from this “paraphrase.”

Mixed Messages

Chuck Swindoll of Insight For Living is a teacher whom I generally admire; however, I’ve been concerned over his occasional use of The Message for some time.  Almost a year ago, in one of his sermons on false teaching, he again quoted a bit from Peterson’s paraphrase (he also spoke of Rick Warren in a positive light to my dismay); so, as a result I sent an email of concern to the ministry.

In the email, I quoted the “Lord’s Prayer” and some other Scripture from The Message and I also mentioned the fact that Peterson highly endorsed William P. Young’s book The Shack despite its numerous unorthodox themes.  I received a response from one of the IFL staff claiming that Swindoll was aware of some of the problems with The Message.  The staff member went on to say that there are those who are trying to discredit Peterson who is “not a new age advocate.”  Here’s part of my response:

“…It is absolutely clear that some passages are blatantly New Age in The Message.  When you add to this Peterson’s endorsement of the heretical novel by William P. Young The Shack with its blasphemous depiction of the Trinity (Father God as “Papa” — an African American woman — which has an uncanny resemlance to “Goddess PAPA” of Polynesian lore, Jesus as a carpenter in a plaid shirt, the Holy Spirit as “Sarayu,” or Sophia), I would question his motives further.

 “…It’s a real shame that some who’ve been solid in their teaching have slid into a bit of error.  Left unchecked, this can lead to more error which can lead to blatant apostasy.  While I seriously doubt Mr. Swindol is heading in this direction, I am concerned that he would use “The Message” if he truly understands some of these very questionable passages…

 “… While I certainly understand having to paraphrase bible passages in order to reach certain segments of the population… …certainly one could do this without the use of Peterson’s book.”

In his reply to my second email he offered that he hoped Peterson had not moved to the new age camp.  The IFL staff member also noted they have some critique of The Shack on their website regarding the Trinity and how Jesus is depicted among other things[28].  Further critique was done [29] which I found encouraging.  But, shouldn’t this induce the staff and Swindoll to look further into Peterson since he enthusiastically raves about Young’s book?  While I remain hopeful that Swindoll will cease quoting from TMsg, to my disappointment, I did recently hear him use it a few weeks ago on local Christian radio (KDRY).

Similarly, Max Lucado has a penchant for promoting Peterson’s paraphrase (I couldn’t resist using alliteration – a literary device Lucado enthusiastically employs).  I have two of his books given to me by a friend, one from 2002 (A Love Worth Giving)  and one from 2005 (Cure for the Common Life); and, he definitely quotes from The Message more in the latter and quite a bit less as a percentage in the former.  The “Master” Jesus is referenced at least three times by Lucado in his use of Peterson’s TMsg[30].

It has been reported that Lucado has gone progressively into promoting contemplative spirituality.  In Cure for the Common Life, Max quotes from contemplatives Peterson, Richard Foster and even Carl Jung[31] (Jung is claimed to have been indebted to Hermetic Tradition[32]); however, perhaps more alarming is Lucado’s explicit quote of Martin Buber.  (Coincidentally, Buber’s I and Thou was a favorite of former UN Secretary-General Dag Hammarskjold.[33])

Divine Spark

Martin Buber broke from his family’s relatively orthodox Jewish tradition and began writing secular philosophical works influenced by Kant and Nietzsche[34].  He later adopted Hasidic Judaism which promotes mysticism with roots in a form of Kabbalah[35].  A central tenet of this belief is that God permeates all matter with a “divine spark” which may be redeemed to perfection[36].  Here’s Lucado’s quote:

“You have one [unique gifting].  A divine spark.  An uncommon call to an uncommon life….” [37] [emphasis added]

Blavatsky (HPB) recognized that this ‘divine spark’ comes from Kabbalist teaching (she spells it “kabalist”) [38].  She also writes:

“…The Hermetists and the later Rosicrucians held that all things visible and invisible were produced by the contention of light with darkness, and that every particle of matter contains within itself a spark of the divine essence – or light, spirit…” [39]

This can be viewed as pantheism (God is all) or panentheism (God is in all) depending on the particular Kabbalistic viewpoint of which the individual adheres (there are many different forms and variations of the Kabbalah).  The panentheistic aspect of Hasidism is explained in this excerpt on Martin Buber’s Hasidic belief system[40] which is itself an extension and refinement of Isaac Luria’s Kabbalah.  Another source for the Kabbalah explains “sparks” in the teachings of Isaac Luria:

“…Much of Lurianic Kabbalah is concerned with corrective actions designed to bring about the repair or restoration (tikkum) of the creation, so that the sparks of light trapped in the realm of the shells can be freed.” [41]

This is essentially what Buber speaks of as Lucado quotes him directly in the endnote corresponding to the “divine spark” reference:

…Jewish theologian Martin Buber writes: “The world is an irradiation of God, but as it is endowed with an independence of existence and striving, it is apt, always and everywhere, to form a crust around itself.  Thus, a divine spark lives in every thing and being, but each such spark is enclosed by an isolating shell.  Only man can liberate it in a holy manner, that is, so that his intention in doing so remains directed towards God’s transcendence.  Thus the divine immanence emerges from the exile of the ‘shells.’” [42] [emphasis in original]

Incidentally, I used to attend the church in which Max Lucado is a pastor (Oak Hills Church in San Antonio).  I can personally attest that he is one of the nicest guys you’re likely to meet (although that quality does not necessarily indicate a person’s ultimate standing in the Kingdom of God).  And, it’s important to note that Lucado is not paid by the church as he earns his living from profits from his book sales.

I really want to believe that Max Lucado was merely trying to make a point in his book; but, I would have to question why he would use a decidedly non-Christian source without researching the full meaning of terms within the source before referencing it in his book.  Perhaps Lucado knows nothing of the Kabbalah; however, that in no way excuses sloppy journalism.  Certainly, his publisher – W Publishing, a division of Thomas Nelson – should have caught this.  In any case, the term itself – divine spark – infers some sort of latent inherent divinity which is an obvious red flag.  True Christians are partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) ONLY because we have the indwelling Holy Spirit.  We do not have a “divine spark.”

In Constance Cumbey’s second book A Planned Deception, she quotes Swinburne Clymer of the Rosicrucians who identifies the “Divine Spark” as the Christos, or Christ within:

“The ‘Great Work’ is devoted especially and directly to Emotional and Spiritual developments, to the awakening of the Godly love nature, the Divine Spark or Christos, which must become the Conscious Soul or Christic nature as a means to return to the Elysian fields and the becoming of a Son of God, a co-worker with him….” [43] [emphasis and caps in original]

 Alice A. Bailey speaks of “divine life” which is obviously just a variation on the Kabbalistic “divine spark.”  In the book From Bethlehem to Calvary from 1937:

“…The germ of divine life is in us, but we ourselves have something to do about it, and the time has come when humanity as a whole must apply itself to the fostering of the divine life…” [44]

Richard Elliot Friedman in The Hidden Face of God  provides a view of the similarities between the so-called “Big Bang Theory” and Kabbalah in regards to how both viewpoints believe the earth was formed.  In his work, Friedman states that adherents to BBT believe we are stardust; and, similarly some versions of the Kabbalah believe we are divine stardust[45].

New Age / New Spirituality in Contemporary Culture

Assessing the context, this “divine stardust” is likely what Joni Mitchell was referring to in her lyrics of the song “Woodstock” (popularized by the band Matthew’s Southern Comfort in 1970 and more enduringly by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young). The first verse begins with her story of coming across a “child of God” and then in the chorus she says:

            We are stardust
            We are golden
            And we’ve got to get ourselves
            Back to the Garden. [46]

New Age Spirituality also believes we must ‘get back to the Garden of Eden.’  Cumbey, in comparing doctrines of the New Age Movement to the Manifest Sons of God teaching, exposes some false beliefs held in common between these two:

“…The Garden of Eden never existed as a real [physical] place.  It instead was a spiritual state from which men fell.

“…We never really leave this planet.  ‘Heaven’ is merely a spiritual state from which we fell which we may reattain by accepting the ‘New Truths’ of Sonship.” [47]

This is born out in the Lucis material:

“Emphasis should be laid on the evolution of humanity with peculiar attention to its goal, perfection.  …man in incarnation, by the indwelling and over-shadowing soul…. …The relation of the individual soul to all souls should be taught, and with it the long-awaited kingdom of God is simply the appearance of soul-controlled men on earth in everyday life and at all stages of that control. …The fact will appear that the Kingdom has always been present but has remained unrecognized, owing to the relatively few people who express, as yet, its quality….” [48]

“…We ourselves may have to change in order to express the divine as Christ expressed it, before God can go on to the manifestation of the beauty of the hidden kingdom.   God needs man’s cooperation.  He calls for men to do His will….” [49]

The song medley by The 5th Dimension “Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In” from the musical Hair, a huge hit in 1969, was in homage to the coming new Age of Aquarius and the corresponding close of the Age of Pisces – the current era – according to the New Age Movement / New Spirituality.  Coincidence or not, the latter part of this medley was one of the official theme songs used in Barack Obama’s 2008 general election campaign[50].

The band’s name itself, “The 5th Dimension,” sounds like it could be just slightly different terminology but yet referring to Bailey’s fifth kingdom which is claimed to be the forthcoming Kingdom of God on earth in the Aquarian Age.  It seems like the band’s moniker could have been derived from a source such as this:

“This evolution of consciousness will inevitably take us into five-dimensional awareness and beyond… For five-dimensional awareness is nothing less than the loss of the sense of separateness from others and from the universe in which we live….

“Fifth-dimensional consciousness is already present for some, and there are many others who are awakening to it even now….

“The advent of this shift has already arrived, creating a foreshadowing of a way of being on the planet that is based in love, not self-protection – one that seeks to serve the good of all, rather than the desires of self.  Such a movement has God at the center by whatever name God is called, for the movement itself does not belong to any nation, religious tradition, or group.”[51] [emphasis in original; underlining added]

This, of course, sounds very much like the writings of Bailey/The Tibetan:

“…There is the emergence of a new kingdom in nature, the fifth kingdom; this is the Kingdom of God on earth or the kingdom of souls.  It is precipitating on earth and will be composed of those who are becoming group-conscious and who can work in group formation.  This will be possible, because these people will have achieved a self-initiated perfection… …and will be identified with certain group expansions of consciousness….”[52]

“…A new kingdom is coming into being: a fifth kingdom is materialising, and already has a nucleus functioning on earth in physical bodies….” [53]

In 1973, the band Three Dog Night had a hit tune written by Daniel Moore titled “Shambala” (lyrics here).  Apparently, this song title is an alternate spelling for the mythical kingdom of the same name of Tibetan Buddhism and Theosophy as spoken of by “The Tibetan” spelled either Shamballa[54] or Shambhala.[55]  Interestingly, I recall seeing band vocalist Chuck Negron on Trinity Broadcasting Network a few years ago.

The late John Coltrane is recognized as a major innovator in the jazz community.  His record A Love Supreme is distinguished as his crowning effort and is considered “one of the most important records ever made” and is essential for any serious jazz library[56].  It’s an homage to God as the liner notes read, “All praise be to God to whom all praise is due.”  Coltrane relates how in 1957 he had a “spiritual awakening” providing him a “richer, fuller, more productive life.”  Disappointingly, however, in his written piece titled A Love Supreme he declares “all paths lead to God”  In reading further, it is clear Coltrane is referring to a panentheistic god (god is in all) – just like the New Age / New Spirituality[57].

Both rock/jazz guitarist Carlos Santana and jazz/rock guitarist John McLaughlin were devotees of the late Sri Chinmoy [see "Spirituality and the UN" section above].  Santana and McLaughlin even did a one-off recording together titled Love Devotion Surrender in ’73 as a tribute of sorts to Chinmoy as they were both very recent disciples at this point.  They play a movement from Coltrane’s A Love Supreme, among other “spiritual” pieces[58].  McLaughlin had already added “Mahavishnu” in front of his name by this time and Santana would add “Devadip” later.

Keith Jarrett, a child prodigy and an incredibly gifted pianist/improviser/composer of international renown and one of the most important and enduring artists of the 20th century and into the 21st, named one of his music publishing companies “Kundalini.”  Jarrett was influenced by the esoteric Christianity[59] of G.I. Gurdjieff[60].  Jarrett memorialized him in his 1980 work of his compositions in G.I. Gurdjieff: Sacred Hymns.  A title of one of Jarrett’s albums is “Fort Yawuh” which is an anagram for ‘Fourth Way’ – a term used by Gurdjieff to describe his approach to self-development.  Apparently, kundalini was one of the methods Gurdjieff employed[61].

“Kundalini rising is sometimes a violent experience, radically changing one’s subtle energy field (making it much less subtle!) and consciousness and perception of energy.  The experience can be (and often is in the West) mistaken for insanity (usually acute schizophrenia) or emotional or physical breakdown on a fairly large scale.” [62]

The above quote comes from a kundalini practitioner who provides caution to the inexperienced.  One of the recognized potential and common outcomes of kundalini arousal (among many) is fatigue and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)[63].  Did Keith Jarrett practice kundalini; and, if so, could this have contributed to or even caused his  bout with CFS in the mid to late ‘90s[64]?   Thankfully, Jarrett has apparently been asymptomatic as he’s been very active the past decade.

There are many, many movies and books with New Age themes, influences and references such as Star Wars (“may the force be with you”), Avatar, the Harry Potter series, etc.  Even children’s movies by Disney have quite a few New Age/New Spirituality references – as just one example: when father Mufasa tells his son Simba, the future Lion King, about the “circle of life”[65] – another way of saying reincarnation and teaching panentheism.  Suffice to say that New Age ideas have permeated our entire culture.

In Whom Can You Put Your Trust?

Who can you trust?  Jesus.  The Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible – not The Message which is no Bible at all.  Jesus THE Christ, the one and only Christ, the one and only Messiah.  The Anointed ONE.  The Word made flesh.  The name above ALL names.  The King of kings and Lord of Lords.

Endnotes:

[1] Vinopal, Kelly. American Society of International Law Introduction.  < http://www.asil.org/resource/un1.htm > par 1; as accessed 12/12/10
[2] Lucis Trust The Great Invocation: A Mantram for the New Age and for all Humanity. < http://www.lucistrust.org/invocation/ > as accessed 12/12/10
[3] SouledOut.org Evolution of the Great Invocation. < http://www.souledout.org/gi/gievolution.html > as accessed 12/12/10
[4] ibid.  The quote follows the 1940 version of The Great Invocation; as accessed 12/12/10
[5] SouledOut.org The Legend of the Wesak. < http://www.souledout.org/wesak/wesaklegend2.html > as accessed 12/12/10
[6] Wesak.us/Mount Shasta magazine  Celebrate the Wesak Festival in Mount Shasta, California! < http://www.wesak.us/articles.php > as accessed 12/12/10
[7] SouledOut.org Op.cit. Evolution of the Great Invocation.  The quote follows the one from endnote 4.
[8] Aquarian Age Commununity website How Can World Invocation Day Strengthen the Spiritual Work of the United Nations?  < http://www.aquaac.org/wid2010/ > as accessed 12/12/10
[9] ibid.; quote is under triangle
[10] Aquarian Age Community website In Observance of the Christ Festival/World Invocation Day 2010: How Can World Invocation Day Affect Planetary Consciousness. < http://www.aquaac.org/wid2010/WID2010_agenda.html > par 17; as accessed 12/12/10
[11] World Service Intergroup website United Nations Meditation.  < http://www.worldserviceintergroup.net/#/un-meditation/4543971619 > quote after “MEDITATION” subtitle; as accessed 12/12/10
[12] Spiritual Caucus of the United Nations United Nations Meditation Room. < http://www.spiritualcaucusun.org/medroom.html > par 1; as accessed 12/12/10
[13] Pedersen, Kusumita P. Sri Chinmoy’s work at the United Nations: Spirituality and the Power of Silence. Farlex, TheFreeLibrary.Com < http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Sri+Chinmoy’s+work+at+the+United+Nations%3A+spirituality+and+the+power…-a0239197496  > as accessed 12/12/10
[14] Chinmoy, Sri. The Garland of Nation-Souls: Complete Talks at the United Nations. 1995, Health Communications, Inc, Deerfield Beach, FL; p  210 < http://books.google.com/books?id=fN8lt0l61FkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=chinmoy+garland+of&source=bl&ots=KQM2RBY4vg&sig=0FC9ZaAtLhalZfArLVuQmHbCQYo&hl=en&ei=kZgFTbriKsH_lgf0xJz_CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false >
[15] ibid. p 69
[16] United Nation Economic and Social Council. List of non-governmental organizations in consultative status with the Economic and Social Council as of 18 September 2008. < http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/ngo/pdf/INF_List.pdf  > p 80; as accessed 12/12/10
[17] ibid. p 70
[18] UN Non-Governmental Liaison Service NGO Consultation on the Commission of Experts of the President of the UN General Assembly on Reforms of the International Monetary and Financial System: Contributions from Civil Society.   < http://www.un-ngls.org/spip?page=cfr_contributions&id_rubrique=103 > as accessed 12/12/10
[19] UN Non-Governmental Liaison Service NGO Consultation on the Commission of Experts of the President of the UN General Assembly on Reforms of the International Monetary and Financial System: Contributions from Civil Society: World Goodwill. < http://www.un-ngls.org/cfr_article.php3?id_article=765 > as accessed 12/12/10
[20] Watkins, Terry, Dr., Dial-the-Truth Ministries The Message Bible: A Mystic Mess. < http://www.av1611.org/kjv/mess_bible.html > as accessed 12/12/10
[21] Bailey, Alice A. The Externalisation of the Hierarchy. 1957, Lucis Trust, renewed 1985, 8th printing 1989 (4th paperbook ed.) ; Fort Orange Press, Albany, NY; p 592
[22] Kjos, Berit, Kjos Ministries website What kind of message is THE MESSAGE?.  < http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Message.html >  as accessed 12/12/10
[23] Kjos, Berit, Kjos Ministries website Role Playing Games & Popular Occultism: The ancient message behind role-playing magic  < http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/occult-rpg.htm#magic > par 1; as accessed 12/12/10
[24] Elijah List website Lou Engle: An Urgent Call to Prayer: Signs of the Times. <  http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/8044 > September 20, 2009; par 1; as accessed 12/12/10
[25] Hermetic Fellowship website What is Hermeticism?  < http://www.hermeticfellowship.org/HFHermeticism.html > as accessed 12/12/10
[26] Hare, John Bruno / Internet Sacred Text Archive The Emerald Tablet of Hermes. < http://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/emerald.htm > Copyright 2010; as accessed 12/12/10
[27] Blavatsky, H.P. Isis Unveiled. 1972, Theosophical University Press; p 507 < http://kingsgarden.org/English/Organizations/TS.GB/Blavatsky/isis/iu1-13.htm >
[28] Insight For Living: The Bible-Teaching Ministry of Charles S. Swidoll website. A Review of The Shack: Where Tragedy Confronts Eternity. < http://www.insight.org/library/articles/review/the-shack.html > review by Glenn R. Kreider, professor of Theological Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary; as accessed 12/12/10
[29] ibid. More Details from This Review of The Shack. < http://www.insight.org/library/articles/review/shack-details.html#one > reviews Kreider as above; as accessed 12/12/10
[30] Lucado, Max. Cure for the Common Life. 2005, W Publishing Group; Nashville, TN; pp 19, 98, 99
[31] ibid. pp 108, 109
[32] Hermetic Fellowship, Op.cit.
[33] Aquarian Age Community. Spirituality at the United Nations.  < http://www.aquaac.org/un/sprtatun.html > par 8; as accessed 12/12/10
[34] Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Martin Buber, < http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/buber/ > Copyright 2007 Michael Zank; as accessed 12/12/10
[35] Fact-index.com Hasidic Judaism.  < http://www.fact-index.com/h/ha/hasidic_judaism.html > as accessed 12/12/10
[36] Wikipedia Kabbalah. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah > “Concepts: Kabbalistic Understanding of God” par 5; as accessed 12/12/10
[37] Lucado, Op.cit. p 3
[38] Blavatsky, Op.cit. p 258
[39] ibid.
[40] Brock, Ted and Winnie. Martin Buber: The Life of Dialogue by Maurice S. Friedman. < http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=459&C=373 > par 12; as accessed 12/12/10.  Friedman is Professor Emeritus of religious studies, philosophy  and comparative literature at San Diego State University.  This work originally published by The University of Chicago Press, 1955 and reprinted 1960 by Harpers, NY (First Harper Torchbook).
[41] Low, Colin. Hermetic Kabbalah: Kabbalah FAQhttp://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/faq.htm > Copyright 1996 Colin Law; “The Orders of the Qlippoth” par 9
[42] Lucado, Op.cit.p 215 here Lucado is quoting Martin Buber from The Way of Man, According to the Teaching of Hasidism. 1994, London: Routledge Classics; p vi
[43] Cumbey, Constance. A Planned Deception.1985; Pointe Publishers, East Detroit, MI; pp 152, 181. As quoted from Clymer, Swinburne. The Great Work; The Coming Masters. 1962, Philosophical Publishing House, Quakertown, PA; p 13.  Also available as a free download < https://public.me.com/cumbey > “A PLANNED DE…ULL BOOK.pdf” pp 69, 83
[44] ] Bailey, Alice A. From Bethlehem to Calvary. Copyright 1937 by Alice A. Bailey, renewed 1957 by Foster Bailey; Lucis Trust, 4th paperback ed., 1989; Fort Orange Press, Albany, NY; p 277
[45] Friedman, Richard Elliot. The Hidden Face of God. 1995; HarperCollins Publishers, 1st paperback ed 1997; New York, NY pp 243, 246 < http://books.google.com/books?id=MYBAWN5UnnMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=richard+elliott+friedman&hl=en&ei=nnnuTOz_IYet8Aah7ZX_Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false >
[46] Mitchell, Joni. “WoodstockLadies of the Canyon. 1969; Siquomb Publishing, New York, NY;  Warner Brothers; Burbank, CA 1970
[47] Cumbey, ibid. p 173 / < https://public.me.com/cumbey > p 79
[48] Bailey, Op.cit. Externalisation. p 588
[49] Bailey, Op.cit. Bethlehem. p 277
[50] Answers.com / Answers Corporation, Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In. < http://www.answers.com/topic/aquarius-let-the-sunshine-in > as accessed 12/13/10
[51] Redstone, Julie, lightomega.org Moving Toward Fifth-Dimensional Awareness. < http://www.lightomega.org/Fifth-Dimensional-Awareness.html > par 15, 17, 18; as accessed 12/13/10
[52] Bailey, Alice A. Discipleship in the New Age I. Copyright 1972 by Lucis Trust [1st printing 1944], 8th printing 1972 (paperback); Fort Orange Press, Albany, NY; p 3
[53] Bailey, Op.cit. Bethlehem. p 254
[54] Daily Lama/dailylama.net Shamballa. < http://www.thedailylama.net/Shamballa/Shamballa06.htm > as accessed 12/13/10
[55] Sutherland Mary. Shambhala. <http://www.livinginthelightms.com/shambhala2.html > as accessed 12/13/10
[56] allmusic.com, Sam Samuelson review of John Coltrane A Love Supreme. < http://www.allmusic.com/album/a-love-supreme-r136933/review > Copyright 2010 Rovi Corporation; as accessed 12/13/10
[57] Coltrane, John A Love Supreme. 1995 MCA Records/GRP Records (1964/1965 original)
[58] Wikipedia, Love Devotion Surrender. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Devotion_Surrender > as accessed 12/13/10
[59] Wikipedia, Esoteric Christianity. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_Christianity > as accessed 12/13/10
[60] Wikipedia, George Gurdjieff. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gurdjieff > as accessed 12/13/10
[61] Wikipedia, Fourth Way. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Way > as accessed 12/13/10
[62] Macbeth, Jessica. Kundalini Rising & Spiritual Healing. < http://www.dharma-haven.org/oas/kundheal.htm >  Copyright 1997; par 10 as accessed 12/13/10
[63] Mudrasham Institue of Spiritual Studies, Helpful Measues in Dealing with Kundalini Emergencies. < http://www.mudrashram.com/kundaliniemergencies.html > as accessed 12/13/10
[64] Gross, Terry (host of National Public Radio’s Fresh Air; Interview with Keith Jarrett) Jazz Great Keith Jarrett Discusses Living with Chronice Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). Transcript < http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=7442 > as accessed 12/13/10
[65] Wikipedia, The Lion King. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_King > quote found under “Animation” par 4; as accessed 12/13/10

Assorted Bibliography:

Green Agenda website  The Spiritual Agenda.< http://green-agenda.com/spiritualunitednations.html >

Melanson, Terry Lucis Trust, Alice Bailey, World Goodwill and the False Light of the World< http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Lucis_Trust.htm >

Melanson, Terry Alice Bailey & Master Djwhal Khul: A Satanic Communion < http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Alice_Bailey.htm >

Way of Life Literature The United Nations and the New Age. <http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/73b3884dc63159024ec23be9d5942076-589.html >

165 Responses to Misplaced Trust, part II

  1. Hi Craig

    Just read your last update re Chuck Swindoll. Please check out my latest articles:

    http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2010/12/list-of-false-christian-leaders-false.html
    http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2010/12/background-to-why-twentieth-century.html

    Within the first one I have Chuck Swindoll listed as belonging to more than one ecumenical Group. I found his name listed under the following groups:

    He is a regular speaker at the ecumenical Promise Keeper events, endorses “The Message” and has signed the ecumenical Manhattan Declaration. He is clearly an ecumenical enthusiast. I hope this information is helpful to you.

    God bless

  2. Craig says:

    John,

    Thanks for your input.

  3. cherylu says:

    Isn’t it truly sad when it gets to the point that we have to ask the question, “Who can we trust?” and the only answer is “Jesus”? Truly, we should be able to trust church leadership and a book that is supposedly a Bible!

    And don’t even get me started on “The Message”! ! It has been on my “black list” for quite a while now.

  4. Craig says:

    cherylu,

    There was more I wanted to write on regarding The Message but, the article was already longer than I wanted it to be. How about the “God of green hope” of Romans 15:13? From http://www.av1611.org/kjv/mess_bible.html

    Who is the “God of green hope”?

    The “green hope” originated with the hellish, human sacrificing, Druids. The publication Talks on Freemasonry states, “Green was, with the Druids, a symbol of hope and the virtue of hope with a Freemason illustrates the hope of immortality.” (Kenneth Tuckwood, Talks on Freemasonry) The “green hope” mantra is a popular rallying cry in the new age Mother-Earth environmental movement. In NAM “green” signifies Oneness with the Earth, hence the title of William Anderson’s book, Green Man: The Archetype of Our Oneness with the Earth.

    “. . . the devil appears as ‘the green one’. . .”
    (Biedermann, Hans. Dictionary of Symbolism, p. 159)

    And from Vicky Dillen’s site: http://www.seekgod.ca/messageoccult.htm

    Another reader wrote after reading this letter and regarding Peterson’s use of “God of green hope” and the above reference, “The god of green hope is probably the Green Man, Dionysus, etc.”:

    I did a quick search for “green man” and came up with the link below.
    http://www.mythinglinks.org/ct~greenmen.html
    That information references the following pagan myths.

    “The Green Man is that spirit energy, presence, inherent in every cell of the vegetative realm, and transmitted to the animal/human realms through the food we eat, …He is Pan….”

    Referring to various sites that promote or discuss the various concepts of the Green Man, one site mentioned, “His Green Man site, “The Gaia Counterpart: The Green Man,” … He also has icon-images for such things as Yggdrasil, cherubs, the phoenix, and the androgyne…”

  5. cherylu says:

    Craig,

    That “God of green hope” thing is one of my biggest pet peeves in “The Message”. I remember the first time I read it. I didn’t know about the NAM connection it had at all. But it absolutely astounded me that anyone would change God’s Word in such a way. At least the New Age connection gives it a context. BUT, and that is a very big “but”, it still totally changes the meaning of the the Scriputre.

    And what about John 1:1-5? Here it is in the New American Standard Bible:

    Jhn 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Jhn 1:2 [fn] He was in the beginning with God.
    Jhn 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
    Jhn 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
    Jhn 1:5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [fn] comprehend it

    Here is what it says in “The Message”:

    1-2 The Word was first,
    the Word present to God,
    God present to the Word.
    The Word was God,
    in readiness for God from day one.
    3-5Everything was created through him;
    nothing—not one thing!—
    came into being without him.
    What came into existence was Life,
    and the Life was Light to live by.
    The Life-Light blazed out of the darkness;
    the darkness couldn’t put it out.

    Besides the fact that I don’t think The Message version makes a whole lot of sense, it really troubles me the way he speaks of Life as “what came into existense” as if it hadn’t existed before that point when standard translations such as the NASB make it apparent that Life was something that was in Jesus and that He had created the world and had been there from eternity. (Read on through verse 10). That is playing fast and loose with Jesus eternal existence it seems to me and if that is so, I find it completely intolerable.

  6. cherylu says:

    PS

    Of course, if Peterson really means “Master Jesus” in it’s NAM context, he played fast and loose with the Deity of Christ in many other places too. And somehow it begs belief that he could consistently use all of the new age and occultic terms you referenced above plus all of the others shown in that article you linked to by accident without knowing what he was doing. I don’t think that is much of a possiblitiy at all.

  7. Craig says:

    cherlyu,

    I agree with you that this seems to indicate that the Jesus Christ was not in existence from the beginning. The way this is worded.

    I’ve not seen Peterson’s rendition of the John 1 verses before this; but, actually this seems to make more sense if he sees the earth and all creation from a panentheistic perspective — especially if you read through to verse 10. Further, it also makes more sense if you view Peterson’s verses from the perspective of the Theosophic/New Age “Christ” — the “Life-Light” — since Lucifer (as “the Christ”), is the “light bearer” who brings Life, according to this occult view. While the following article doesn’t explain all, it gives some info. Read just the first five paragraphs and the last two (skim the rest):

    http://www.lucistrust.org/en/arcane_school/talks_and_articles/descent_and_sacrifice

    and, this explains a bit more:

    http://www.lucistrust.org/en/meetings_and_events/three_major_spiritual_festivals/the_christ_s_festival/the_reappearance_of_the_christ_booklet

    PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, dear reader, this is occult/esoteric literature which perverts Scripture. Only read this if you have a fairly good grasp of basic Christian concepts and principles!

  8. Craig says:

    I agree 100%. I find it very hard to chalk up to mere coincidence.

  9. cherylu says:

    Although the example I am quoteing below from The Message does have the same occultic theme discussed, there is also another example in it of how God’s Word is sometimes totally mishandled by Peterson. At least I certainly think it is.

    This is I Corinthians 6:9-11 in the NASB:

    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God

    Here it is in The Message:

    9-11Don’t you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don’t care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don’t qualify as citizens in God’s kingdom. A number of you know from experience what I’m talking about, for not so long ago you were on that list. Since then, you’ve been cleaned up and given a fresh start by Jesus, our Master, our Messiah, and by our God present in us, the Spirit.

    All of the specific sins that Paul says in this section disqualify one for the Kingdom have been reduced by Peterson to these three categories: . Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, What happened to idolatry, for example? And how many homosexuals are going to recognize themselves in this list of those who “use and abuse sex:? And what on earth is up with use and abuse the earth and everything in it as a category that will keep folks out of the Kingdom? And how on earth does Peterson even begin to think that is a paraphrase of the words actually used in this section?

    (I warned you not to get me started on The Message!!)

  10. Craig says:

    I’m glad you brought this one up as it was another I was going to write about. I had this in the original version and cut it out. You are absolutely correct that the average homosexual will not see anything wrong with their homosexuality in Peterson’s rendition. And, yes, there’s absolutely nothing in the original text or ‘standard’ Bible translations about “the earth and everything in it;” but, this goes right in line with the panentheistic viewpoint that god is in all and with Gaia (earth) worship of the typical New Ager.

    Keep it up as I think it important to discuss these things to the unsuspecting Message readers and adherents.

  11. cherylu says:

    Galatians 5:19-21

    Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
    envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    NASB

    The Message version:

    It is obvious what kind of life develops out of trying to get your own way all the time: repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small-minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on.

    This isn’t the first time I have warned you, you know. If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit God’s kingdom.

    Repetitive, loveless, cheap sex, trinket gods, a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage, paranoid loneliness, an impotence to love or be loved; while these things may all very well be true, is this really what Paul was saying in these verses? Or has Peterson just made it up as he goes here?

    John 10:30

    I and the Father are one. NASB

    I and the Father are one heart and mind. The Message

    The Jews were going to stone Him for this statement saying that He called Himself God It seems to me The Message version of this verse loses that idea.

    John 14:28

    You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you ‘ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. NASB

    The Message:

    You’ve heard me tell you, ‘I’m going away, and I’m coming back.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I’m on my way to the Father because the Father is the goal and purpose of my life.

    Does that say the same thing? It sure doesn’t seem to as far as I can tell.

    John 1:12

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, NASB

    But whoever did want him,
    who believed he was who he claimed
    and would do what he said,
    He made to be their true selves,
    their child-of-God selves.
    The Message

    I didn’t know that becoming a child of God made us become our true selves.

    And back to the occultic themes in The Message again. What is up with the “rose of sharon” and the lily of the valley” being changed into a lotus blossom in The Message? (Song of Solomon 2:1-2)

    And in Micah 7:14, The Message says this:

    Shepherd, O God, your people with your staff,
    your dear and precious flock.
    Uniquely yours in a grove of trees,
    centered in lotus land.
    Let them graze in lush Bashan
    as in the old days in green Gilead.

    Centered in lotus land indeed!!

    Here is what the NASB says:

    Shepherd Your people with Your scepter,
    The flock of Your possession
    Which dwells by itself in the woodland,
    In the midst of a fruitful field
    Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead
    As in the days of old.

    (For infomation on the lotus as a new age symbol, see Craig’s footnote # 20 in the article above. There is a section in the article linked in that footnote on ‘the mystic lotus”.)

    OK, Craig, I will quit–at least for now!

  12. Craig says:

    “The jewel in the lotus” is a blissful state that is sought after:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Om_mani_padme_hum

    I’ve been a fan of music all my life; and, I listen to many different genres. It is quite sad that esoteric themes are in many recordings – even within instrumental music. A recognized classic jazz record is “Jewel in the Lotus” by Bennie Maupin — a record I quite like. While it’s clear that we as Christians should stay away from music with occult lyrics, it’s more difficult with this sort of thing. I certainly don’t think of the esoteric meaning of this as I listen to Maupin’s record. In fact, I had no idea what this meant until very recently.

  13. Craig says:

    oldmanoftheski has another insightful and timely post on Dickens as a pioneer of the ‘social gospel’ with his Scrooge:

    http://oldmanoftheski.blogspot.com/2010/12/scrooged-gothic-christmas.html

  14. Hi Cherylu

    I wonder if you would just clarify something you wrote:

    “Truly, we should be able to trust church leadership and a book that is supposedly a Bible!”

    You then went on to mention “the message” as separate from that comment. So am wondering if that quote was referring to “the message” or some other “bible”. I am sure that you trust the BIBLE as the inspired infallible WORD OF GOD?

    I read with interest the other things you said about “the message” and can see more clearly how New Age it is.

    God bless

  15. Craig says:

    John,

    cherylu has quoted from the NASB alongside The Message to compare and contrast in each of her posts; so, I believe it quite clear she sees the NASB as an authoritative Bible. The “supposedly a Bible” comment then refers to The Message. She was just echoing my statements in the last paragraph of the article.

  16. cherylu says:

    John,

    As Craig said, what I was referring to was indeed “The Message.”

    Craig,

    Thanks for the clarification for me. You beat me to it.

  17. Thanks for the clarification. Therefore I agree with you both. I always encourage every Christian to NEVER put their trust in man but in the ONLY one who can be 100% trusted ie Jesus. Rather than depend upon mere men to instruct us , we should (each of us) study the Bible (eg, NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV) direct and do not use paraphrases or versions not directly translated from the original manuscripts. I also advise that these 4 versions be compared and read together to ensure you arrive at the correct meaning of the text. Use a concordance to word search to compare scripture verses and scripture passages in other places within the Bible, always ensuring you do not reach an interpretation without getting passages in complete context.

    I also advise (as was advised to me) that the following questions be asked:

    “what is the passage saying?, why is it saying it?, how does it fit in with the preceding verses, chapters and the succeeding verses and chapters (context), who is it saying it to?, how does it fit in with other passages of scripture that discuss these points?, does it apply to us or me? why does it apply to us/me? what is God saying to me? What is God saying to me? At this point it is good to pray, asking God to show you what He is saying to you.

    Note: there a\re other questions you could ask. These are a few examples. By asking the questions it focusses your mind in answering your own questions with the help of God through the Holy Spirit.

  18. In other words: we should all be Bereans, ie study the scriptures daily always checking out what our leaders say with the Bible to see if what they are saying is scriptural.

    By the way, checking the scriptures is more than just checking out the verses the leaders quote because they could be manipulating or twisting these verses to fit their own agenda. Rather, check those verses by comparing them with other verses (which they have not quoted) and check out the context of the chapters surrounding those verses to get those verses in complete context. This is what it means to correct check out what the leaders are saying.

  19. Craig says:

    No one has commented on the UN portion of this article; so, I’ll bring forth some of my concerns here. The UN is allowing an openly New Age/Luciferic organization to have input on global monetary policy — namely, World Goodwill. First a look at World Goodwill:

    http://www.lucistrust.org/en/service_activities/world_goodwill/purposes_objectives

    Here are some of their beliefs as an organisation straight from the link above:

    One: Humanity is not following a haphazard or uncharted course — there is a Plan. This Plan has always existed and is part of the greater design of the Cosmos. The Plan has worked out through the evolutionary developments of the past and because of the special impetus given it from time to time by the great leaders, teachers and intuitives of the human race.

    Two: There is an inner spiritual government of the planet, known under such different names as the spiritual Hierarchy, the society of Illumined Minds, or Christ and his Church, according to various religious traditions. Humanity is never left without spiritual guidance or direction under the Plan.

    Three: The widespread expectation that we approach the “Age of Maitreya”, as it is known in the East, when the World Teacher and present head of the spiritual Hierarchy, the Christ, will reappear among humanity to sound the keynote of the new age.

    Four: There are millions of mentally alert men and women in all parts of the world who are en rapport with the Plan and work to give it expression. They are people in whom the consciousness of humanity as one interdependent unit is alive and active. They regard the many differing national, religious and social systems in which they serve as modes of expanding human consciousness and ways by which humanity learns needed lessons. Their primary function is, through their living example, to give humanity a new and better vision of what life should be.

    And, the following gives a synopsis of their recommendations to the UN General Assembly on Reforms of the International Monetary and Financial System:

    http://www.un-ngls.org/spip.php?article765

    Many thinkers…and groups, such as the New Economics Foundation (www.neweconomics.org), have already put forward scenarios in which the role of money within society is reformed, with the purpose of creating a better society for all. Let us hope that the current turmoil will open a space for such ideas to be explored and acted upon.

    Is this not alarming?

  20. cherylu says:

    Craig,

    It is indeed alarming. I wish I had the time to read through all of the links you provide in your articles. But I simply do not.

    It is alarming, but I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. We know from the Bible that at some point, there will be a one world system in place so that no one can buy without using it. I don’t know how close we are to that. But I believe all of these things are certainly working in that direction.

    Obviously only time will tell how all of this works out. The important thing is that we all know the true Jesus and are secure in Him.

    Doesn’t seeing all of this stuff taking place on the world scene make it seem even more urgent to help people understand the deceptions that are taking place in the church as a whole? Deceptions that are leading people into another spirtuality and at best damaging their relationship with the real Jesus and at worst leading folks away from Him altogether?

  21. Craig says:

    cherylu,

    Regarding your last parapraph: yes, that’s one of the main reasons for the subjects and content of the articles I’m writing.

  22. AT says:

    Thank you for a very informative article and blog. Your research is helping my understanding of New age thought and how it is permeating our world and our churches. Very sad.

  23. Craig says:

    AT,

    Thanks for your comment. Yes, it’s sad in a way; but, on the other hand our redemption draweth nigh!

    My hope/prayer is that some will see the True Light and thus be saved.

  24. Craig says:

    Chuck Pierce:

    “…some of your organs will come alive in a new way…”

    “…the waves of sound are creating the way that you will go…”

    “I see strands of DNA being reprogrammed by the sound of heaven going into bodies like a laser of healings”

    “I see the sound of Heaven realigning man to bring forth the plan of the land.”

    The Plan? Is Pierce talking about Alice Bailey’s “The Plan?” – as this is the way it’s referred to in the Lucis Publishing/Trust books.

    Then @ 2:08 Dr. Clarice Fluitt comes in and gives some “words.” Notice after she touches Pierce’s head with a kundalini impartation (around 3:30) he starts yelling and doesn’t stop — thankfully the video does.

  25. Daniel says:

    Man, awesome site here Craig… I’ve been doing a lot of “research” about all this lately, as God has been opening my heart and my eyes to what the Enemy is doing… (Warren Smith really helped me to understand what is going on in “The Message”…) I’m sure I’ll be frequenting your blog fairly often, as it seems a great resource. I just left a comment for Constance C. asking her about his, but I figured I’d ask you to… Have you looked into the writings/teachings of Leonard Sweet much? I have just learned about his book “Quantum Spirituality” which he wrote many years ago, which from the portions I read, is undeniably a handbook on New Age mysticism, dressed in the garb of post-modern semi-Christian language (although he seems to have a fondness for making up his own terminology as well…) I guess what was so bothersome, is that unlike someone like Brian McLaren (who openly admits a disbelief in hell and so forth), Sweet totally denies having any connection with New Age teaching and acts all hurt and offended that people would accuse him of being heretical… (not that this means anything but…) I had read the book he co-authored with Frank Viola titled “The Jesus Manifesto” earlier this year, but after learning about his New Age leanings, I went back and listened to the first chapter online, and all I can say is that IF this guy is really a “closet New Ager”, then he is possibly one of the craftiest and most deceptive writers out there. “Jesus Manifesto” is supposedly a book that is all about making Jesus the central thing in our lives and our churches, etc. But as I was re-listening, I was dismayed by the consistent devaluing of scripture, of salvation, and of doctrine. It was sad to think that the “Jesus” who they describe as being so beautiful and glorious and wonderful may not even necesarily be the true Jesus… Since they denigrate everything that would actually work to define who the real Jesus is, (the Word of God), then it’s hard to say how it could be proven that they are not in fact preparing people to embrace a false Christ. They underscore much of the typical mystic values, putting experience over truth, and so on… Ok, I’ll shut up now…

    Great blog!

  26. Craig says:

    Thanks for the encouragement. I’ve not looked into Leonard Sweet; however, here’s a recent series of articles on Herescope (Herescope is on my blogroll):

    http://herescope.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html

    I should probably read “The Jesus Manifesto” someday; but, right now I’ve got a bunch of projects in the works. Plus, I’m trying to enrich my own REAL Christian education to balance out the occult and extra-biblical stuff I’ve been reading. If I could just manage to get by with a bit less sleep…

    Keep in mind that the “strong delusion” of II Thessalonians 2 is just that– STRONG.

  27. Daniel says:

    Thanks so much for the link Craig… Yeah, I doubt reading “A Jesus Manifesto” would really be worth the time. Personally, it was odd to be reading a book that was supposedly all about making Christ the center of everything, and yet I don’t remember once feeling even the slightest prick of Holy Spirit conviction/edification. Almost like listening to someone use the name of Jesus as a mantra or something. It just becomes a word devoid of any meaning…

    I guess my main concern/questions at this point isn’t so much about Sweet himself (as I’m fairly convinced he has long ago embraced the doctrines of demons…), but now after learning about him, I’m fairly concerned about Frank Viola, and by extension, the broader arena of the “house-church movement” that I have been a part of…

    I am now just really curious as to how much of this esoteric mysticism is being embraced by people who have supposedly stepped away from the institutional church due to the prevalence of false teaching!

  28. Craig says:

    Daniel,

    I did not mean to give you the impression that I thought the Sweet/Viola book was not important to check out its roots. I may someday. I’ve not focused much on the Emergent wing as I’ve been looking into hyper-charismaticism primarily. However, these streams are all converging.

    I’m just thankful God has opened your eyes to the potential dangers of the “house-church” movement.

  29. Daniel says:

    Yes, the streams are definitely converging! And dude, that series of articles you gave the link to turned out to be one of the most informative things I’ve read in quite some time! It not only helped shine light on Leonard Sweet, it really helped break down and explain how the same New Age gospel is being propogated through seemingly “scientific” language, essentially showing that there is really little difference between quantum physics/metaphysics and mysticism…. (kind of fascinating actually…)

    However, I feel I must point out that Emergent (i.e. New Age) teaching does not actually stem from “house-church movement” at all, but is merely trying to infiltrate the “movement”, just as it is trying to infiltrate the Body of Christ on every level… In reality, most “house-church” proponents (such as myself) are merely interested in returning to a faithful and honest look at the scriptures and taking them at face value when it comes to understanding how the Body of Christ should function. There is nothing intrinsically heretical about house-churches, although they are filled with fallen, imperfect people who are as susceptible to deception as anyone else…

    I actually believe that conventional, institutional churches in America will at some point become so poisoned by the doctrines of demons, and so controlled by the mandate of the state, that there will be no other alternative to the bible-believing Christian than to meet privately in homes or wherever else (similar to how China is today)… This is why Satan is also making such a concerted effort to distort the gospel even outside the conventional Christian denominations and organizations…

  30. Craig says:

    Daniel,

    I understood what you meant by “house-church movement” but, it’s probably good you wrote this for other readers. I agree that very likely eventually true believers will gravitate towards private home churches. Revelelation 18:4:

    “Come out of her my people,
    so that you will not share in her sins,
    so that you will not receive any of her plagues”

  31. julie says:

    This is a question for Daniel:

    I know of a home church (my son and daughter attend) where they were approached by a non-denominational “Boiler Room” church and asked if they wanted to come under their (Boiler Room’s) umbrella. This home church group was a little befuddled wondering why that might be necessary as they thought the Holy Spirit quite capable of leading and guiding them. I have heard that this is not uncommon for house churches to be asked to join an existing 501(c)3 church.

    My question for you is, has this happened to you during your tenure as a house churchite?

    Just curious! Thanks

  32. Daniel says:

    Well, I must confess I’m not familiar with the term “Boiler Room”, (is that the name of an actual organization or just a descriptive term?)

    That really doesn’t surprise me at all though to hear that such a thing happened. (Seems like nowadays most conventional churches at least have some kind of “small groups” program, whereby they essentially try to create what is meant to look like a “house church network”, but that is still under their own hiearchal control…) Personally, most “organic-church” folks that we’ve been involved with are quite conscious of what it means to file as a 501(c)3, and would staunchly oppose such a move, as it would be seen as compromising virtually everything…

    However, I feel I have to add that although there is clear aversion to making those types of institutional moves, one thing I have seen, time and time again, is that people will flock to all these “organic church gurus” (as I call them), all these guys who write books and hold seminars and essentially place themselves in a place of seniority/authority over others, even though they aren’t holding any official position or “office”. So essentially, (from my perspective), it winds up feeling more than a tad hypocritical, to find yourself basically hearing these teachers (such as Frank Viola, Neil Cole, and others), who are writing all these books to explain why we don’t need special books, holding seminars (which are not free) about why we don’t need to pay $ in order to gather, and allowing themselves to be elevated above everyone while preaching about the “priesthood of all believers”…

    For a while, I was just irritated and frustrated, to feel like there was such a trend of not practicing what you preach. These teachers/authors would deride the idea that a pastor is an “office” with a salary and such, but then completely ignore the fact that they themselves are being “elevated” just the same, only through the use of celebrity instead of a church office… Viola writes about how the religious institutions are pagan in origin and how they are unnecessary if we are only willing to be led by the Spirit, and then he goes and gets all these highly-credentialed, big-named institutional guys to endorse his books! (!?!) It seems that the idea of being one of the “big boys” proved too seductive to resist…

    But beyond this, my wife and I became increasingly unsettled by how much we were encountering this “social gospel” everywhere (we didn’t even know what that term was at first…) But over time, we began to realize how pervasive it is, (especially amongst “anti-institutional” folks) and how much it runs totally counter to the true Gospel of Christ. It’s such a slippery thing too, cuz it’s not like most adherents of the “social gospel” even acknowledge that they believe/teach anything different than traditional Christianity (they think they’re just getting back to what Jesus “really” talked about…). They typically don’t verbally deny any of the “core” doctrines, but instead they usually manage to deny them by way of simply putting them down on the bottom shelf, out of sight, out of mind. They deny the cross, not by removing it from their “statements of faith”, but by reducing to a matter of least importance (if you can believe that!) All in all, it is very very sad…

    And mind you, these are not folks who are Brian McLaren fans or anything! They do not call themselves “Emergent”, but in the end they have swallowed the same core lie… As I see it, the moment that a person or group starts to regard “social ills” (poverty, hunger, injustice, etc.) as the main problem, instead of sin, then the damage is already done. It doesn’t matter if they keep all their old creeds and such, because they essentially all get redefined…

    I guess that’s what has been so chilling about my recent discoveries about Leonard Sweet. Cuz I believe the guy can speak “evangeleze” better than practically anyone. I mean, even with most “Emergent” dudes, they usually can’t help themselves from using their vast postmodern vocabularies, in order to sound hip and edgy. But with Sweet, this guy can turn it off like a switch, and sound like the most fundamental, bible-believing Christian guy (even though he probably invented half of those post-modern terms!) This guy has the most convincing “sheep costume” I have seen yet… (and there are some pretty convincing ones out there now…)

    I guess all this is why I’ve been realizing how deceptive it is for Christians to rely on all our little pet Christian words and terms that we’ve developed over the last century or so…. For a time, it was like Christians had their own “code language”, words that came from the Bible (at least a lot of them did) and had biblical meanings. Now, all that language has been co-opted and exploited by Rick Warren & Co., and the vast majority of people going to church don’t have a clue…

    Whoa! Sorry for the huge comment… I’m just kinda spinning with all that I’ve been absorbing over this past year. I mean, a couple years ago, I was so militantly “anti-institution” that I would’ve defended someone like Frank Viola to the end. His book “Pagan Christianity” pretty much brought me back from the brink of giving up on the idea of the Body of Christ altogether… But now, after seeing him get into bed with a false teacher like Sweet, there are really only two conclusions to draw: either he is totally naive and oblivious to the false teaching that Sweet is spreading, or, he has swallowed the fasle teaching himself. (and I think we all know what the odds are on there…) The yeast of the Pharisees infects everything. Either you love the Truth and therefore cannot stand the offensive stench of lies, or you embrace the lies and pervert the Turth. There’s no room for fenc-sitting.. Overall, I sincerely feel that we are seeing the “great delusion” taking place before our very eyes. It has been quite heart-breaking for my wife and I to see so many friends of ours get deceived by the likes of guys like Shane Claiborne and Spencer Burke and others… Just a couple weeks ago, I realized that this one dude who frequents many of the same “organic church” blogs that I’m familiar with is a total New Age guy in disguise. His name is Jonathan Brink (his latest book: “Discovering the God Imagination”…) It’s just spreading like cancer…

    Anyhow, I could probably ramble on forever about this stuff, but I’ll stop now.

    I must say though that it is encouraging to engage with others who actually recognize what is going on today. Thank you all…

  33. Craig says:

    Daniel,

    It’s refreshing to hear from someone who ‘get’s it.’ Most who do have a clue as to what’s going on can’t quite put their finger on exactly what it is. But, you’ve articulated it quite well.

    You wrote: “They typically don’t verbally deny any of the “core” doctrines, but instead they usually manage to deny them by way of simply putting them down on the bottom shelf, out of sight, out of mind. They deny the cross, not by removing it from their “statements of faith”, but by reducing to a matter of least importance (if you can believe that!) All in all, it is very very sad…”

    Yes, that’s exactly it. To seemingly stay this side of orthodoxy, these kind of folks will put on a nice veneer yet there’s no real Christian depth to their teachings and practices. The Cross is not preached. Worse yet, some have found clever ways to word ‘Statements of Faith’ to sound orthodox yet mean something esoteric/occult instead. And, redefining terms is a classic strategy of the occult and cults.

    The same thing you are witnessing in the Emergent church wing has been going on in the hyper-charismatic wing as well in terms of the conferences, books, etc.; however, there ARE those who are asserting positions of power as modern day apostles ordained supposedly by God (although they like to capitalize to “Apostle” So-and-So) demanding submission to them.

  34. Daniel says:

    Yes exactly! One of the things I wound up studying over the last couple months has been Freemasonry (through things like the testimonies of Bill Schnoebelen and others…), and it blew me away to learn about this key occult/esoteric tactic… All their symbols, all their terminolgies, have multiple levels of meanings. This is totally understood by those who are “initiated” and “enlightened” to the core beliefs of this cult. Even the masons on the lower levels of the organization don’t understand what is really being taught by the higher-ups. This really is a strategy that is used time and again in various secret societies, and they amazingly have no qualms about using such “deception” either. They rationalize it because they believe that those who are being kept in the dark, are only being treated in such a way because they are not yet ready to accept the “truth”. After learning about this, I suddenly couldn’t help but see it happening all over the place with all these pretend Christian teachers who have really adopted core New Age/occult doctrines. Somehow they see their secrecy as a virtue, instead of something to be ashamed of…

    What’s even more disturbing, is that when you start studying various occult circles and practices, you start to get a sense of just how much Satan seems to relish the use of traditional Christian symbols and terms and practices, because it makes it all that much more sacreligious in the end… After all, Satan’s ultimate goal is to be worshipped as God, and he is going to try achieve this by convincing the entire world that he is in the real Jesus Christ!

    It doesn’t get much more sacreligious than that….

  35. cherylu says:

    Daniel,

    I think a lot of us have been left with our heads spinning in the last few years as we look around us and see the depth of the deception that has poured into the church, how it has spread until it seems there is hardly anyplace at all that is untouched by it, and how many of our friends and neighbors are sucked into it and really don’t want to hear what we have to say.. Several times I have said that I am at the place where nothing could shock me any more. And yet we keep seeing still more happening every time we turn around. And stuff that was considered so far out even a year or so ago that it could not possibly be a threat to anyone is now becoming more and more accepted. It is really a strange world and strange time we live in.

  36. Craig says:

    Daniel,

    Yes, it is disturbing when the realization hits that one of Satan’s tactics is to take Christian terms and practices and pervert them as evidenced in occult literature and practice. But, of course, as you state, his goal is to be worshiped AS god.

    Keep in mind, though, that deception also causes well-meaning individuals to teach these untruths. We don’t know for sure which ones are witting deceivers and which are really trying to follow God through Jesus. All we can do is keep speaking and standing for Truth and pray the blind eyes will be (re)opened.

  37. julie says:

    Boiler Rooms are actual names of the churches associated with 24/7 prayer teams. They are usually located in urban areas and attract young hipster-type believers who wish to impact their communities. For instance, they are eager to set up prayer rooms, complete with candles and insense and soft music, in the hopes that people, just off the street, will come and join believers in prayer. From that place, they hope to make converts. That is just one aspect of their emphasis.

    All of the above posts that mention the gospel message being on a lower shelf, yet never taken down and preached, somewhat applies to this group. However, the Boiler Room in my city is a real mixed bag. I have visited and heard the gospel proclaimed powerfully – and guess what? In those particular meetings, mini revivals, with persons repenting and BELIEVING occurs. Imagine that?

    However, it isn’t long before someone (perhaps one of the women pastors?!) preaches something goofy about how great the Desert Fathers are, and the life of Christ just exits the building (IMHO).

    It was this group who saw the need for my grown children’s house church to come under their umbrella of protection. Here is a house church, full of young zealous men and women, on fire for the Lord, cleaning out their worldly closets of worldly books and nonsense, repenting and getting free of all sorts of sin, all by the moving of the Holy Spirit, needing to come under the umbrella of church leadership that is somewhat spiritually confused and wishes to be relevant in the world’s eyes? I don’t think so!

    Anyway, thanks for all of your input. I love this blog.

  38. julie says:

    I do not wish to be overly critical of Boiler Rooms or the 24/7 prayer rooms. I just see an over emphasis on prayer and reaching people with the love of Jesus via meeting them in the prayer room. Without the proclamation of the gospel to the hearer, and the connection in believing that message by the hearer, coupled with repentance, there is no salvation. Perhaps this is what they engage in in their prayer rooms, but that has never been clarified in my hearing.

    The leaders I have met are wonderful in many ways. However, my spider sensors go off when certain men are quoted from, from time to time, (like Dallas Willard, etc.) that I fear that simply preaching the gospel and staying on message will dwindle over time, just as it has throughout the history of the church. Makes me sad.

  39. Daniel says:

    Interesting… I am glad that you made sure to note how God is still able to move and work in people’s lives, even in a group or situation that have wandered into numerious dangerous waters. God’s Spirit can of course work anywhere and anyway He chooses, so I guess it shouldn’t surprise us!

    I think your description of their concept of “prayer meeting” is noteworthy though, in that it bears a much closer resemblance to the kind of environment one might to create in order to achieve some kind of altered state of consciousness…

    Also the idea of inviting non-believers in to a prayer meeting, in hopes that they might encounter God and the gospel, seems sorta backwards from what we see in scripture. (How do you invite someone to come in and pray with you, if they don’t yet know the One to whom they are praying…?)

    There are actually a lot of those types of prayer/church gatherings in the region of Seattle where I live… Sometimes they’re really into old Catholic liturgies/symbols, others are really fascinated with Celtic imagery and language. There seem to be lots of varieties of this kind of “meditative” prayer going on…

  40. mbaker says:

    This article is entitled Misplaced Trust, and i think that is so indicative of too many people’s attitude in the church right now. We have misplaced our priorities to trust only in our churches and our leaders to get it right, whether they be regular ones or home based ones . In doing so, I fear we have substituted a corporate mentality, i.e. they can do it (and should because we are so busy) better for us, rather than focusing upon how we stand individually with Christ. I believe in local churches with all my heart but what i do not believe in is how we have become overly dependent upon them, (in our busyness) as a substitute to do for us for what should be our own personal relationship with Christ. After all, that is all that will count in the end with Him.

  41. mbaker says:

    A P.S. just so you know: i think it is incumbent upon every believer, regardless of their denominational standing to check EVERYTHING we are taught like the Bereans did against the Bible. While Christ is our Savior and Lord, what we believe about that must agree with God’s word, otherwise we too are following another gospel.

    I agree 100 % with Craig that as a church we are too much following spiritual gurus and popular religious modern fads nowadays to our own personal detriment. If we are to promote the real gospel of Jesus Christ,as we are called to do, we must be willing to stand against those who are not, as unpopular as we might seem.

  42. Julie says:

    Like like like!

  43. Julie says:

    Again, like, like, like! I came out of a church that I did not compare what was taught (at the church by the pastors and guest speakers [Riverstone Church, Kennesaw, Georgia]) to what was taught in the Scriptures. Oh my…what a vast difference! Please, church, wake up and smell the false teaching! If the Bible does not confirm it, it is not true.

  44. Tim says:

    Boiler Rooms are actual names of the churches associated with 24/7 prayer teams. They are usually located in urban areas and attract young hipster-type believers who wish to impact their communities. For instance, they are eager to set up prayer rooms, complete with candles and insense and soft music, in the hopes that people, just off the street, will come and join believers in prayer. ..

    I have a friend who teaches at a local pentecostal bible college and he told me one day how he walked into one of the rooms and the students had tuned down the lights, used candles and set up a communion table and had soft music for worship and prayer, etc., tec. and when he walked in he yelled at them, “Jesus came to dispell the darkness and to be a light to the world!!! and threw the lights on in the room and scared the students half to death. He went over opened the blinds and re-iterated the scriptures about “light” and told them he never wanted to see that again.

    I only share this, (doesn’t really have much to do with the post, but your comment reminded me of the incident) because when he told me we both started laughing about it. I understand nothing like that has happened since. One girl almost P%#d her pants he scared her so bad. I guess they were overly focused in the “atmosphere” of the room….

  45. Craig says:

    Tim,

    I think your post is still within the general realm of the original post. Our trust, our faith, needs to be in the One in whom offers our salvation and is the Lord of all rather than some methodology which sounds like it’s meant to evoke contemplative prayer.

  46. Craig says:

    I stumbled upon this disturbing Tom and Jerry cartoon. I can’t vouch for the claim that Mozart was a Mason.

  47. This reminds me of something I heard from an Elim Pentecostal preacher. Before I had been enlightened to false teachers I trusted this guy and the words he preaches. I cannot exactly remember what he preached before whether it was sound or not, but after about 20 years i heard him again. What utter nonsense he preached.

    Here is an example: “try to understand, man begats man, animals begat animals and God begats God. I think he was referring to the verse “His only begotten Son”. Can anybody see the flaw and danger in such deceptive teaching. I would be interested if you can see the heresy and blasphemy that I can see.

    Bear in mind what Benny Hinn said about the three trinity’s, ie the trinity of the Son, the trinity of the Father and the Trinity of The Holy Spirit, ie 9 gods.

    A number of years ago I would have probably have soaked up the HIDDEN heresy (of this preacher – not what Benny Hinn said, which I would have noticed) without noticing the hidden error.

    Please guys I would really like to know your thoughts on this.

    Thanks and God bless

  48. For those interested, I wrote an article as an aid for those who want to be Bereans and hear God direct from the Bible and not the voice of man. You can find it on this shortcut link:

    http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2010/12/how-to-study-bible-and-why-learn-how-to.html

    entited: How To Study The Bible and Why. Learning How To Avoid Deception

  49. Craig says:

    This sort of phraseology has been pertuated by occultists, New Agers, Word of Faith, etc. Here’s an interesting list compiled of indivduals proclaiming self as god from an unapologetically New Age site (and one firmly believing in self as god) including similar quotes of Hinn, Copeland, Creflo Dollar, etc.:

    http://www.iam-iam-iam.com/atlantis/forum15/210.html

  50. AT says:

    I just attended a large church in the Dallas area where I thought that the preaching was sound and know that the pastor preaches biblically soundly from the whole counsel of God’s word. I was very disaponted when at the beginning of the sermon he encouraged the congregation to read The Message paraphrase as a devotional. He quoted Peterson. I can’t remember the quote but it was about how the Bible is relevant to every area of our lives (ie jobs relationships, parenting, etc.)which is certainly true.
    I contacted his pastoral staff with my concerns they kindly responded to my query. They assured me that they teach from the ESV and that I should be careful to not take out of context that he recommended it for “devotional” use.
    I am saddened that they must feel that we need the paraphrase to be able to “relate ” to God’s Word. Even though in Revelation Jesus sternly warns against adding or taking away any thing from his Revelation.
    It seems that we are too quick to endorse things that we consider to be “Christian” and “culturally relevant” it seems without sufficient testing to see whether what we are putting into our minds in pure and true.

    AT

  51. cherylu says:

    AT,

    I don’t get it either. I have had a friend tell me the same thing, that it is good for devotional reading. If it is not good for study, how in the world can it be good for devotional reading if it misleads us away from God’s actual truth. If we are seriously studying, it is not good enough. But to focus our minds and hearts on God in “devotional reading” it is alright to do it with something less then the truth??

    Jesus once said, “God is *spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24. It seems to me this verse totally contradicts the whole idea of using something that is not totally true for devotional reading.

  52. Craig says:

    AT,

    Well, you did the right thing by contacting the staff. Is this church by any chance affiliated in any way with Dallas Theological Seminary or Chuck Swindoll/Insight For Living?

  53. cherylu says:

    Craig,

    Why did you ask about Dallas Theological Seminary? I don’t know what connection you see with it and The Message. I’ve probably missed something.

  54. Craig says:

    In my correspondence with Insight For Living regarding Chuck Swindoll’s use of The Message it was mentioned that some of Swindoll’s pastoral support are from Dallas Theological Seminary (and Swindoll himself is both a graduate and Chancellor of DTS); so, I was wondering if there’s a connection.

  55. AT says:

    Craig No, this Church is not associated with Chuck Swindoll’s Church or Insight for Living (though it’s location is very close in proximity). From the Pastor’s biography I don’t see any link to the Dallas Theological Seminary. The pastor has served as president of the Southern Baptist Convention. When I have listened to both of these pastors they have seemed very well grounded in the truth and not afraid to preach the whole counsel of God’s word. So I am confused as to why they would promote this flawed (at the very least) “Message”.

    I am just praying that my little contact will at least sow a seed of caution to the pastoral staff to at least examine the inconsistencies and deceptive aspects of The Message.

    Cherylu I agree . As an aside – I heard a Christian teacher (I do not remember who) state that the so called devotional has contributed to biblical illiteracy because a large percentage of people focus on their devotional which is usually a isolated quote from the bible not in context and someone elses commentary as opposed to spending actual time in His word reading the whole word and thus reading it contextually. So… spending time using a flawed bible paraphrase will help increase biblical literacy?
    I must state though that this church does have a variety of very good thorough bible study classes including Precepts Inductive Bible Study. I guess which begs the question even more how devotion time in The Message would benefit anyone.

  56. Craig says:

    AT,

    You wrote : … these pastors they have seemed very well grounded in the truth and not afraid to preach the whole counsel of God’s word. So I am confused as to why they would promote this flawed (at the very least) “Message”.

    I can use these same words to describe Chuck Swindoll; so, it’s really confounding that both Insight For Living and the pastors you refer to would use The Message. “Devotional” or not, any teaching of ANY sort should be Biblically grounded. The Message CLEARLY is a mixed bag — which means it should not be used at all as “a little leaven leavens the whole.”

  57. Craig says:

    While searching for something somewhat related, I came across the following speech by Ida Urso who is referenced near the beginning of this blog post [Misplaced Trust, part II] in which he makes more clear the link between the UN and Lucis Trust. This is from an Arcane School Conference, Saturday, May 13, 1995, New York City and this speech is titled “Let Purpose Guide the Little Wills of Men: The Spiritual Impulse Behind the United Nations”:

    “Let Purpose guide the little wills of men”. It is not a coincidence that we are celebrating both the 50th anniversary of the Great Invocation and the United Nations. Both in different ways are pivotal to the Plan and much as yet remains to be done before the purpose of either can be fully realized. Let us therefore utilize our opportunity today and continue to hold and deepen the group’s spiritual tension. Let us together, complete the triangle of light, love and power and from this vantage point, let us contemplate that world body–”the hope of humanity”–which was conceived just 50 years ago under the impulse of the three spiritual Festivals. (falling on March 28th, April 27th and May 26th)

    As the dream that arose from a nightmare, it gave hope to the world at a time when people were in despair. Pronouncing an end to the scourge of war and envisioning a world of justice, peace and progress for all peoples of the earth, the United Nations has been called humanity’s most far-sighted and significant undertaking.

    It was on April 25, 1945 two days previous to the full moon of Taurus and the Festival of Wesak that delegates from 50 nations, met in San Francisco for a conference known officially as the United Nations Conference on International Organization.

    Appalled at the atrocities they had witnessed and the hell they had undergone, their mission was to create an organization that would forever end the scourge of war and serve as a mechanism for future peace.

    Of this period the Tibetan Master tells us: “Not for nothing is this conference being held during the five days of the Wesak Full Moon. It will be a time of supreme difficulty, in which the Forces of Light will face…’the forces of selfishness and separativeness.’” (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy)…

    This also confirms some of the other quoted material above.

    The “forces of selfishness and separtiveness” are those who refuse to go on board with New Age goals including those of Judeo-Christian beliefs. In the NA, as pointed in the first part of this article, the only “sin” is that of selfishness which is defined as separativeness/separation — not being in unity with NA goals.

  58. Craig says:

    Going back to The Message for just a bit. A few years ago I had a disagreement with a very close friend regarding my view of this atrocity. Well, on Friday I had dinner with him and his wife and in the conversation (I’m not sure the exact context), he pulls out his iPhone and looks up “as above, so below” in The Message and he says to me, “I didn’t know that was in the ‘Lord’s Prayer!’” As he read more, he got this really annoyed look. I then asked him to look up Micah 3:5 to which he and his wife looked at me incredulously. They could not believe a “Bible” would actually take the Lord’s name in vain.

  59. cherylu says:

    I am so very glad to know that no matter what the plans of the enemy are, he will not be victorious in the end. Seems to me like we need to stop and remind ourselves of that every so often.

    Jesus is Lord and God will have the final say! And I am so glad for that fact! The enemy can go no further then He allows.

  60. MaryM007 says:

    Thanks, Craig, for all this important information and all your hard work in researching these timely articles. My question doesn’t really fit anywhere that I know of – feel free to delete or move it wherever it should go – but do you know anything about the book ‘Primal’ by Mark Batterson?

  61. Craig says:

    MaryM007,

    No, I’m sorry, I’ve not ever heard of Batterson or this book. Where have you heard of him?

  62. MaryM007 says:

    Visited a church on Sunday and the preacher is beginning a series and referenced this book. It’s about focusing on the 1st commandment – loving the Lord God with all our heart, soul, mind… and getting back to basics. I was just checking if anyone had heard his name in the emergent/new age circles… The sermon was excellent, but I have become so gun-shy anymore… Thanks again, Craig! :)

  63. Craig says:

    MaryMM007<

    I found this over at Ken Silva's "Apprising Ministries" blog:

    http://apprising.org/2010/01/02/the-comments-that-mark-batterson-doesn%E2%80%99t-want-you-to-see/

    and also:

    http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/a/14683-mark-batterson-s-strange-book-recommendations.html

    From the blog article:

    I referenced the fact that Mark Batterson had stated on his blog that Eckhart Tolle’s book,
    Practicing the Power of Now, had hugely influenced his thinking.
    That post has now disappeared from Batterson’s blog without comment.
    I have also learned that New Ager Eckhart Tolle is only one of the strange references made by Batterson.
    He seems to have quite a taste for New Age authors.

    On May 18, 2005,

    Batterson recommended as “must-reads”, The Celestine Prophecy, by James Redfield,
    Awaken the Giant Within,
    by Anthony Robbins (long time New Age teacher–he did a video with Deepak Chopra),
    The Success Principles by Jack Canfield, (Canfield has been a New Age teacher for decades),
    and New Age “evangelical”,
    Laurie Beth Jones‘ book, The Power of Positive Prophecies.

    Uh-oh. These are New Age books and Batterson apparently comes from the Purpose Driven / Emergent side of things.

    I would say at this point caution is advised, but your church is not necessarily in danger. It all depends on where your pastor is going with this. To be fair most pastors don’t have the time to research every book or author to see if something’s amiss. I would keep my eyes out if I were you though.

    Perhaps you could show your pastor the above links to give him a ‘heads up.’

    It seems your skepticism may well have been Holy Spirit driven.

  64. Craig says:

    After re-reading your comment, I should say “the church you visited” rather than “your church.” Sorry, been real busy of late.

  65. MaryM007 says:

    How disappointing! I will see where the pastor takes this series, for a while at least…but you can’t plant corn and expect tomatoes :( . I’ve recently left my church where I was an admin asst to one of the pastors because we had become Bill Johnson’s little Bethel – the senior pastor just spoke at a Rick Joyner ‘Discerning the Times’ conference here in Va Beach, VA…so they have become totally emersed in the NAR/Signs & Wonders (Toronto)/New Age everything movements… This cancer has spread like wildfire throughout the Body of Christ – nearly impossible to find a church that isn’t infected…it’s worse than sad. Thank you for taking the time to look into this.

  66. Craig says:

    But, on the plus side: our redemption draweth nigh!

  67. Craig says:

    Here’s another post on Eugene Peterson’s The Message including more on the “God of green hope”:

    http://mywordlikefire.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/the-message-bible-inserts-earth-reverence-god-of-green-hope/

    Oh! May the God of green hope* fill you up with peace, so that your believing lives, filled with the life giving energy of the Holy Spirit, will brim over with hope! [The Message, Romans 15:13]

    For those unaware, Good Friday this year fell on Earth Day and some have made a big deal out of this “harmonic convergence.” The author notes Jan Markell in the article:

    “A very special week was hijacked by the environmental movement last week. What is known as Earth Day landed on the same day as Good Friday, so our crucified Lord had to share the spotlight that day. And if you think this was only the typical antics of the religious Left, think again. Evangelicals have now jumped into this arena. The cause of caring for God’s creation is our responsibility, although we cannot ‘save the planet’ as many herald. Should conservative Christians really be making the theological leap that it was significant that both observances were placed on the calendar on the same day?”

    Also see:

    http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/04/the-big-story-g-7.html

  68. Craig says:

    Since I’ve bought a number of books on Amazon, I routinely receive spam from them. This morning I received an advertisement for Bailey’s The Externalisation of the Hierarchy with the following product description (excerpted):

    “The books of Alice A. Bailey, written in cooperation with a Tibetan teacher between 1919-1949, constitute a continuation of the Ageless Wisdom–a body of esoteric teaching handed down from ancient times in a form which is always suitable to each period. Intended to precede and condition the coming era, the Alice A. Bailey writings offer an unparalleled spiritual approach to such subjects as the teaching on Shamballa and the Path of spiritual evolution; the spiritual Hierarchy; the new discipleship and training in meditation as a form of service…and the new world religion, which emphasizes the common thread of truth linking all the major world faiths. The subject of human free will has always contrived to set men’s mental teeth on edge. The fatalist automatically resigns himself to whatever befalls him, seeing in effects no cause attributable to his own action – or inaction; but resigned always to the working of an inexorable fate. The Christian counterpart tends to accept his lot as the working of God’s Will in which he has no say or part. At the other extreme stands the rebellious independent, determined to exercise his right to free, self-willed action. This book, as one of its many values, shows the extent to which Hierarchy and other centres of life on the planet are dependent upon the unpredictable and often irresponsible factor of human free will…According to law, the Hierarchy – even at danger point – could not infringe human free will and dictate or impose a course of action based on their own deeper knowledge and more profound insight [ed: true in a sense, but the goal is possession/control by the "Hierarchy"]. Many of the spiritual factors surrounding the period of human history from 1919 to 1949 are presented in this book. The energies at work behind the world scene are shown; and the identity revealed of certain great Beings magnetically attracted in service towards this planet at a climaxing moment in the evolution of our planetary life. These factors are an aid to our understanding of the interrelated energy patterns within the universe which operate according to law. But essentially they provide the esotericist with knowledge of available energy flow responding to planetary purpose and plan which can be contacted and given conscious and intelligent cooperation, particularly by those in whom the selfish, self-centred will has been transcended so that the spiritual will can be given more adequate expression [ed: i.e.: those possessed]. Some of these energy factors are particularly clear in the special Messages given over a period of many years at the time of the Festivals of Easter, Wesak and the Christ. Many aspects of Hierarchical work, thought and planning are discussed in these Messages, with the Hierarchical effect shown of planetary evolution and initiation and its reflection into humanity. This achieved a climax at the time of the three Festivals in 1945 [ed: with the advent of the United Nations (see 1st section of this article)], when a momentous decision was taken involving, among other results, the eventual externalisation of the Hierarchy and the reappearance of the Christ [ed: the antichrist]. The final section of the book discusses the Stages in the Externalisation of the Hierarchy. It is often difficult for the human mind to imagine the problems facing those liberated from the restrictions of form. It is even more difficult to contemplate the effects in those so liberated.”

  69. Craig says:

    Here’s a fascinating look at Gurdjieff’s influence on pianist/composer Keith Jarrett [mentioned in the "New Age / New Spirituality in Contemporary Culture" section] titled Music, Asthetics and the Legitimation: Keith Jarrett and the ‘Fourth Way’:

    http://iastate.academia.edu/ChristopherWChase/Papers/329034/Music_Aesthetics_and_Legitimation_Keith_Jarrett_and_the_Fourth_Way

    …Jarrett is committed to improvisation as a type or reception or “channeling,” – an ability to access sacred power. [p 13]

    …So I suggest that these performances as a whole are far better understood as a form of occult liturgy rather than secular jazz improvisation…I would suggest that Jarrett’s solo performances are his parallel of the Gurdjieffian dances or movements designed to shift consciousness – not only for Jarrett, but for the entire audience as well… [p 15]

    Unfortunately, the author wasn’t aware of or overlooked the fact that Jarrett used “Kundalini” as a music publishing company in the ’70s [he also missed the anagram for "Fourth Way" in the Jarrett recording titled Fort Yawuh].

    I’m well aware of most of the artists the author mentions as I tried at one point to collect the entire ECM label output (music was a HUGE idol in my life). I’ve been listening to a bit of Keith Jarrett’s music as of late; and, I have to admit that I enjoy a large portion of his output. One of favorite pieces is a performance on his mulit-volume set “At the Blue Note: The Complete Recordings” titled The Fire Within [a preview can be heard -- disc 4, track 5]. This piece would work well in the typical hyper-charismatic “worship” with its repetitive vamp and crescendos (loud passages) and diminuendos (soft passages) as a means to get the audience into a receptive state for the proceedings to follow.

    I actually threw away my collection of Led Zeppelin LPs as the members were (are?) adherents of the Aleister Crowley school. One of their LPs had inscribed in the trail-off (portion between the end of the grooves and the outer perimeter of the label) the words “to mote be it” which is used to invoke a spell.

    Should we avoid any music which has some sort of occultic influence? How do we know for sure? I never knew until I did some research. Can we really escape from occult influence? Do we just avoid all traces of estoricism/occultism in society? Is this even possible? Even our dollar bill is laced with occult imagery: pyramid, all seeing eye, etc.

  70. Martin says:

    Didn’t Jesus say something about it’s not what goes in but what goes out of a man that makes him unclean? So if something that goes in to you (music or perhaps fresh cream cakes) and causes something ungodly out, then for you it is probably not advisable.

  71. Craig says:

    I agree. It’s up to the individual to determine what could make them stumble (or perhaps cause another to stumble, but that’s a whole ‘nuther subject). I admit that music, for me, is something I constantly wonder/pray about. I certainly don’t listen to it (or collect it) nearly as much as I used to. I enjoy many genres of music; but, I’m constantly assessing which is good for me and which isn’t. Gradually, some things I used to enjoy I just no longer enjoy. I attribute that to the work of the Holy Spirit.

  72. Craig says:

    Former Vice Presidential candidate and staunch New Ager Barbara Marx Hubbard declares that mother earth has conceived! (I wonder who the father is?)

    http://conceptionday2012.com/

    March 22 marks the beginning of a nine-month period of preparation that culminates on December 22 – our first Planetary Birth Day, and a day that leaders around the world are declaring Day One of a new era for human evolution.

    Alllllriiiiightyyy…

  73. Arwen4CJ says:

    Wow….I wonder if this December 2012 idea is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy by those who believe it means something.

    Perhaps the Anti-Christ will be revealed.

    Or, maybe nothing will happen, and these people will just be found to be false prophets.

  74. Tim Bain says:

    remember …the “Harlot” has to “saddle up” first, (Rev.17:3-4 first the harlot then the antichrist)… she’s been play’n to the crowd pretty heavy recently, they all seem to think she’s got what it takes to “tame the “Beast”. I’d give her a count of maybe 3 and 1/2 …jus’ sayn’…maybe.

  75. Craig says:

    Powerful video: “If I wanted America to Fail”

    Yes, in the New Age, Crisis = Opportunity; so, Crises are manufactured.

  76. Craig says:

    While this is only perhaps tangentially related to this thread (but, well hey, this is my blog after all), I thought of the lyrics to the following song the other day. The tune is obviously in opposition to the abuse of pharmaceuticals. I’m of the opinion that pharmaceutical companies have been successful in forcing unneeded medications to the general public. IMO, this has led to other maladies as a consequence – not to mention folks ambling about in a pharmaceutically-induced haze (about 7 years ago one woman driver, in a pharmaceutically-altered condition, nearly clipped my car {I swerved} and miraculously missed other vehicles after going through a red light eventually being stopped by a tree). “Paracetamol” is the British term for “pharmaceutical”.

    Of course the Greek word (transliterated) pharmakeia is translated to English in the New Testament as medication, magic, sorcery, and witchcraft.

    Interestingly, the original US release of this has the title changed to “First Impressions” while substituting the lyrics “pretty paracetamol” with “if I ever lose control” presumably due to pressures from the pharmaceutical “industry”:

    Pretty Paracetamol

    Pretty paracetamol you soothe my aching brow,
    I need you when my heard is spinning round,
    I look into the looking glass but none of them is me,
    It takes at least an hour to pin me down,
    First impressions often lie,
    They always fool the naked eye.
    I hold you gently on my tongue and then you drift away,
    It’s hard to read the writing on the label,
    I force my hands out sideways but I can’t resist the strain,
    And it don’t help me, no it don’t help me,
    First impressions often lie,
    They always fool the naked eye.
    I think I recognize a friendly face I’ve seen before,
    (don’t you despair)
    It’s moving far too quickly to be sure,
    Tangled in a web of twisted memories and lies,
    (There’s no one there)
    I’m fighting for a reason to go on.
    Pretty paracetamol you soothe my aching brow,
    I need you when my heard is spinning round,
    I multiply myself by two in the mirror on the wall,
    But it don’t help me, no it don’t help me,
    First impressions often lie,
    They always fool the naked eye.
    I think I’ve lost control, I think I’ve lost control,
    I think I’ve lost control, I think I’ve lost control…

    [John Watts, (c) Universal Music Publising Group originally from the album "Word Salad" by the band Fischer-Z, 1979 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_Salad_(album) )]

  77. Craig says:

    Interestingly, the wiki link on Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In has been altered deleting the reference to “Let the Sunshine In” as a theme song of Obama’s 2008 election campaign. Well, I saw the advertisements myself and I’m sure other readers have as well.

  78. Arwen4CJ says:

    I couldn’t remember which article we were discussing the media in in regard to my recent comment. I’ll say it again here –

    NBC edited the opening ceremony of the Olympics to include President Obama in the audience. I had been talking to a friend from England about the opening ceremony, and I happened to mention that Obama was there. He didn’t believe me, saying that he only saw his wife. Well, this prompted us both to do some research. Sure enough, Obama was not there.

    This means that NBC deliberately lied about Obama being there and purposely deceived every American who watched the whole opening ceremony. No wonder NBC refused to show it live.
    With it being in the UK, there is only a few hours difference between our time zones. We would have seen it in the afternoon. But, no, they aired it after the event so that they could edit it however they wanted to.

    NBC went out of its way to make sure that we knew that President Obama was in the audience.

    I told my mom about this, and thinking back on it, she says that she thought the background was a little different when they showed Obama.

    My friend wasn’t sure, but he thought that they might have also edited in Mitt Romney. We know that Romney was in London at least the day before the opening ceremony, as apparently he made quite a stir in the UK. My friend sent me links to Romney insulting the UK and that he questioned their ability to host the Olympics.

    We’d talked about the US news and media censoring our news before, but this was solid proof that Obama had been added in. That just makes me wonder how far the media is willing to go in lying to the American people.

  79. Arwen4CJ says:

    Does anyone happen to know of an online link to the opening ceremony? I wish I would have taped the opening ceremony so that I had proof other than my memory.

    I think one of the times that they highlighted Obama being there was during the speeches that opened up the Olympics. Does anyone know of an NBC recording of this on youtube or anywhere? Of course people could just edit the lies out, so I’m not sure if that will be able to prove anything.

  80. Craig says:

    To take somewhat of a break from all the more serious conversations here, I thought I’d post a couple videos/audios of music I just listened to while making dinner. This is from Tunisian oud player and composer Anouar Brahem. Here he plays in a trio with two French musicians, a pianist and accordian player, making some hauntingly beautiful music. This music is available on an album titled “La Pas du Chat Noir” (French for ‘the steps of the black cat’). I hope you enjoy:

    Here’s my favorite piece (not well recorded here, unfortunately):

    Here’s a live version of the above piece showing the three in performance:

    If you enjoy this and have the financial wherewithall, please buy this music. The cd was released by the Munich based ECM Records label. Some of my all-time favorite music was put out by the label.

  81. Craig says:

    Someone had done a blog piece on the 2008 Olympic games in Beijing showing pagan rituals and occult symbology. I can’t find it right now; it may no longer be on the ‘net. It showed how the performance of Led Zeppelin’s “Whole Lotta Love” by (ex-Zep guitarist) Jimmy Page and Leona Lewis resembled a pagan mating ritual (the electric guitar has long been recognized as a phallic symbol). It captured a bird’s eye view of the stadium showing a clear eye of horus design.

    The Olympics seem to bring about a whole host of pagan ritualism and occult symbology. I’ve not watched the opening ceremony; but, I feel certain someone will capture it and point out any occult imagery.

  82. Craig says:

    Steve had mentioned Jethro Tull on the Johnson New Age Christology post which prompted some thoughts which I’ll direct here.

    I have been wondering whether Ian Anderson (vocalist, songwriter, leader of Jethro Tull) was a ‘former’ Christian (if one believes an individual can be a ‘former’ Christian). I base this upon some of the lyrics from their 1970 album Benefit as shown here (note especially bolded portion):

    From “Nothing to Say”:

    Climb a tower of freedom, paint your own deceiving sign.
    It’s not my power to criticize or to ask you to be blind
    To your own pressing problem and the hate you must unwind.
    and ask of me no answer; there is none that I could give you wouldn’t find.
    I went your way ten years ago and I’ve got nothing to say.

    From “For Michael Collins, Jeffery and Me”:

    Watery eyes of the last sighing seconds,
    blue reflections mute and dim
    beckon tearful child of wonder
    to repentance of the sin.
    And the blind and lusty lovers
    of the great eternal lie
    go on believing nothing
    since something has to die.

    Of course, Benefit would be followed the next year by Aqualung which would include the following on the back cover (please excuse my posting of the author’s use of our Lord’s name in vain as it’s here to show the disrespect Anderson exhibits towards our faith):

    In the beginning Man created God; and in the image of Man created he him…And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did rule over the earth. But as all these things came to pass, the Spirit that did cause Man to create his God lived on within all men…and Man saw it not. But for Christ’s sake he’d better start looking.

    I’m wondering whether Anderson had begun a sort of Christian pilgrimage, became disillusioned, and subsequently whole-heartedly rebelled as evidenced on Aqualung.

  83. Arwen4CJ says:

    I don’t know the guy, but I just did a google search and came up with a couple of links. He makes no mention of ever being a Christian, but that doesn’t mean that he wasn’t. He might have been convicted for a brief period in his life, and now goes out of his way to say that he always rejected it. Or, maybe he never was a Christian at all:

    http://www.tullpress.com/ms4jun00.htm
    http://www.j-tull.com/news/christmasalbum.cfm
    http://www.cliffordmeth.com/ianandersononwarreligionan.htm
    http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/interviewIanAnderson2011.htm

  84. Steve B. (omots) says:

    Ian Anderson is not a follower of, or a professing believer in Jesus, (a.k.a. christian), never was as far as I know. Very much a skeptic, possibly agnostic, but also deeply fascinated by paganism and “the old gods”, a flavor which comes through in much of his music.

    I was a huge fan in high school and college, but after the scales fell from my own eyes, I had to reluctantly part ways with my extensive Tull collection. But that said, I have been tempted to see Mr. Anderson in concert several times as he comes to my local area about every other year for an “acoustic Tull” concert. The last time Anderson was in town our newspaper reported that one of the supporting band members, (female), was a professing christian who claimed to be praying and witnessing to him. There’ always hope, but at some point, the door closes.

  85. Steve B. (omots) says:

    A Christmas Song, with lyrics.

  86. Craig says:

    There’ always hope, but at some point, the door closes. That’s true.

    I’ve thrown away a portion of my collection for similar reasons (Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath because of the overt and not-so-obvious Aleister Crowley/satanic connections). I did not have much Tull, but I did throw away Aqualung early on for its offensive bit on the back cover. I still have Benefit and I put it on the turntable (yes, ‘table) the other day. Sure there are drug references, etc.; but, I’ve been a bit ambivalent on just which kind of secular music I can listen to (or keep in my collection). As long as I don’t make any of it an idol, I maintain it could be OK. It’s sort of like those who follow sports and sports figures – there are few sports figures who truly hold to Christian values.

    The following is just food for thought and not meant to be directed to anyone at all.

    In this article, I mention Keith Jarrett. Jarrett performs music with no lyrics, so there can be no problem with lyric content, of course. But, what of his religious beliefs? Should they matter? There are reports of Jarrett being rude to his audience (just let out a cough or sneeze at one of his solo concerts and you may receive a glare from him); so, the guy is intolerant of any noise coming from his audience. With that in mind, he could be viewed as a jerk at times. But, the guy is an amazing pianist and ‘instant composer’ in his solo concerts. I enjoy music not based on the musician’s politics or religious persuasion but by the music itself.

    I also mention John Coltrane in the article. He was, by all accounts I’ve read, a very nice, humble guy. So, do we choose not to listen to his music because of his religious beliefs? I’d think not. Incidentally, he kicked a heroin habit back in the ’50s. Just like one of his mentors, Miles Davis.

    And, frankly, I don’t much care for most modern Christian ‘pop’ music. It’s mostly too bland and boring for my tastes and the lyric content is mainly “ME” centered rather than Christocentric (Christ centered). And, unfortunately, some of it is geared toward Dominionism/Zionism – witness “Days of Elijah”.

  87. Craig says:

    Hmmm…

    Interestingly, the other day I was perusing http://www.allmusic.com, bounced around a bit, and came to Todd Rundgren’s 1972 Something/Anything? album which contains three of my favorite ‘pop’ tunes: “Hello, It’s Me”, “I Saw the Light” (in homage to Carly Simon), and “Couldn’t I Just Tell You” (a definitive “power pop” tune). However, I’d forgotten that he did a ’75 album titled Initiation. I did not know it was overtly Theosophical and was quite surprised when I found out (just the other day) that one side was titled “A Treatise on Cosmic Fire” – named after an Alice Bailey book (which I’ve quoted from recently)! See here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiation_(Todd_Rundgren_album)

  88. Steve B. (omots) says:

    Craig, sounds like we both grew up on a heavy dose of ’70′s rock…I think I must have drove my neighbors crazy playing Black Sabbath’s “Children of the Grave” over and over again. I wore out that record.

    There truly was a great deal of musical innovation and questioning of all aspects of society (the world) back then, more so than today. Tull was always at the top of my list, ( I owned 14 Tull albums), so you might say I was under the influence. In looking through the Youtube offerings for Ian Anderson, I found an extensive interview with him with former YES keyboardist Rick Wakeman. Rick was also one of my favorites…raised a Baptist, trained classical pianist, turned ego maniac rock star (druggie), returned to the sheepfold and his faith in Jesus (the true rock).

    This was Rick in an unforgettable YES perfomance way back then:

    You may remember a thought provoking piece off of Tull’s Aqualung album (my favorite) that does seem to fit this thread…specifically:

    “Hymn 43″

    Oh father high in heaven — smile down upon your son
    whose busy with his money games — his women and his gun.
    Oh Jesus save me!
    And the unsung Western hero killed an Indian or three
    and made his name in Hollywood
    to set the white man free.
    Oh Jesus save me!
    If Jesus saves — well, He’d better save Himself
    from the gory glory seekers who use His name in death.
    Oh Jesus save me!
    I saw him in the city and on the mountains of the moon –
    His cross was rather bloody –
    He could hardly roll His stone.
    Oh Jesus save me!

    Unfortunately, Ian Anderson’s brilliant musical performances look and sound too much like he is/was controlled by the pagan deity (demon/fallen angel) PAN. I’m not saying that’s a fact, only that it is a real possibility:

    Of course same could be said about some of todays “christian” artists.

    Hey Craig, why don’t you do a blog article on contemporary “christian” music? There needs to be more discussion about the genre. Much is very good, but a little yeast is hardly noticeable sometimes.

  89. Arwen4CJ says:

    I second the idea of a contemporary Christian music thread. I listen to a lot of it, but not the most recent stuff. The stuff I listen to was popular about 5-10 years ago now — especially the worship type songs.

    However, I’ve recently noticed that the contemporary worship songs coming out now are pretty disturbing — at least some of them.

  90. Craig says:

    I feel ill-equipped to do a post on contemporary Christian music as I just don’t know enough of the genre. I find most current pop music kinda boring; and, since most of contemporary Christian music is derivative of current pop music (or, worse in my mind, ’80s alternative – I’d rather hear the secular alternative any day since it’s done much better), I just don’t listen to it. The only time I catch it is with friends.

    A while back it was suggested I do a thread on New Age/occult influence in secular music which I may do at some point in the future. I know MUCH more about secular music as it was so much a part of my life beginning in childhood and extending well into my adult life up to (and even a bit after) my conversion 12 years ago. I’m now just beyond the half-century mark.

  91. Arwen4CJ says:

    Okay — then let me say this — I think that a lot of the Christian music that I listen to seems orthodox with the lyrics. However, I’m sure people could read what they want to in the lyrics. I’ve seen several websites that tear apart a select few songs that I don’t think were intended to have an unorthodox meaning. Sure, people in certain churches could read false meanings into the lyrics if they wanted to, or use the songs for evil purposes (like soaking or whatever.)

    When I was in undergrad, my friends did a contemporary Christian praise and worship service. There were over 100 songs that they did, and all of them were awesome. At all contemporary worship services that I went to for several years after I graduated were the same sorts of songs — I would say from 2001 to 2008 most of the songs seemed solid theologically.

    However, there has been a disturbing trend in contemporary Christian worship music used in contemporary services since about that time. The newer stuff seems to be more of a sexual nature than previous songs. I know that’s not true across the board, but it seems that Ihop and Bethel are really influencing the most contemporary music. If the songs aren’t sexual, then they are not based on Scripture or worshiping God. Rather, they are about feeling loved by God or feelings or superficial things. I’m sure that this isn’t true of all songs. Maybe the Vineyard in my hometown and also the one in my graduate school hometown just happened to pick songs that were more of this nature, reflecting the direction of the pastors and the individual churches rather than real choice out there.

  92. Craig says:

    Steve,

    Yes, I did grow up on ’70s Rock music (of all types). While I was a bit athletic and played a few sports in high school, I enjoyed listening to music more than anything. It was my ‘escape’ (no drugs, though – never did). I drove my parents AND my neighbors nuts with my loud music listening – when I could get away with it.

    I agree there was much musical innovation at the time (Jazz had gone through a number of real innovations in the ’60s and early ’70s as well). I did not know Wakeman was raised a Baptist and subsequently returned to his faith after his ‘fame and fortune’ in the band Yes. I was a Yes fan but not so much a Wakeman fan, although, of course, the guy had talent. IMO, they were better as a band (although I always liked Bill Bruford’s drumming and was tickled when he left Yes at the height of their commercial success to go to the more daring King Crimson).

    The Tull lyrics to “Hymn 43″ are apropos to the article, yes. I considered posting them in an earlier comment.

    Well, Wakeman may be technically adept and fast as a keyboard player but he’s no match for Jazz free music/avant garde pianist Cecil Taylor who plays “88 tuned drums” – a reference to the 88 keys of a piano and his percussive (and mostly atonal) style. Taylor’s music is not for everyone, but, one must give him his due (for those who find it too much to take, at least go to the 2:00 mark to watch how fast he plays):

    Lest one thinks Taylor is just pounding out random notes, keep listening closely, and you’ll hear that he repeats some of it. Yes, this can be forbidding and intense music as there’s no melody to latch on to; but, he does do a bit of ‘call and response’ (which comes from the blues tradition), and he does have phrases that he repeats throughout. And there’s some inherent Classical music in some of his playing which comes through at times. Renowned Classical pianist Glenn Gould once described Taylor’s music as, “The most formidable pianism these ears have heard: This is the great divide of American piano playing.” Former sideman, Buell Neidlinger, bassist who played in symphonies and jazz settings, is quoted:

    “That man is capable of playing ten different notes with ten different fingers, ten different dynamics, ten different attacks and ten different tempi. There is no musician I’ve ever met, including Igor Stravinsky and Pierre Boulez, who come anywhere near having the abilities that Cecil Taylor has.”

    For those who know anything about the piano: note that Taylor rarely uses the foot pedals for sustain or stops. Instead he uses his finger touch. Sadly, the public is largely ignorant of this man’s immense talent.

    Taylor once played at the White House during Carter’s administration. Reportedly, after playing, then President Carter had to run up to the media shy Taylor, who briskly walked off when through, to ask him where he could get some of his music.

    OK, where was I?…

  93. Craig says:

    Arwen4CJ,

    Did you do “Days of Elijah”?

    Here are the lyrics:

    These are the days of Elijah
    Declaring the Word of the Lord
    And these are the days of Your servant, Moses
    Righteousness being restored
    And though these are days of great trial
    Of famine and darkness and sword
    Still we are the voice in the desert crying
    Prepare ye the way of the Lord

    CHORUS:
    Behold he comes
    Riding on a cloud
    Shining like the sun
    At the trumpet’s call
    Lift your voice
    It’s the year of jubilee
    Out of Zion’s hill salvation comes

    And these are the days of Ezekiel
    The dry bones becoming as flesh
    And these are the days of Your servant, David
    Rebuilding the temple of praise
    And these are the days of the harvest
    The fields are as white in your world
    And we are the laborers in your vineyard
    declaring the word of the Lord

    CHORUS 2X
    Behold he comes
    Riding on the clouds
    Shining like the sun
    At the trumpet call
    Lift your voice
    It’s the year of jubilee
    Out of Zion’s hill salvation comes

    There’s no God like Jehovah (x8–modulate)
    There’s no God like Jehovah (x8–modulate)
    There’s no God like Jehovah (x7)

    CHORUS X2

    [Donnie McClurkin]

    All:

    See if you can pick out the Dominionist/Joel’s Army/Tabernacle of David influences.

  94. Arwen4CJ says:

    In college my friends did play “Days of Elijah.” The song was also used at several Campus Crusade For Christ events. I never heard the song played in church, though. There is an interesting fact about this song. My sister studied for one semester in Scotland. While she was there, she became friends with the son of the writer of the song.

    As for dominionist/Joel’s Army/Tabernacle of David stuff — I think I can see some possible references that a person can read into the song. I’m not sure that it was intentional by the author. I don’t know.

    At the time that I sang the songs as part of worship during my college years, I had never heard of any of those false theologies and hadn’t been exposed to them. Thus, when I see the lyrics to the song now, I tend to still think of the song how I originally did.

    To me, the theme of the song seems to be Jesus’ imminent return. Jesus is the Savior and Messiah. It seems to be referring to Revelation and Messianic passages from the Old Testament regarding the Second Coming.

    Admittedly, it never was my favorite song. I think it CAN be used to reflect on Jesus’ second coming and everything that that will mean — what Jesus will accomplish. That’s how I always viewed it.

    Now….if we want to pick this song apart — I suppose that the hyper-charismatics and people who are under the teachings of dominionism/Joel’s Army/Tabernacle of David would understand this song in a completely different way.

    Instead of seeing the song as a general idea of Jesus’ Second Coming, with Messianic references and references from Revelation, they might claim that the song refers to elite, hyper-charismatic Christians.

    I take the first verse to mean that in light of the fact that Jesus will be returning, all Christians everywhere should be pointing people to Jesus. Specifically, though it can be viewed as a reference to the two prophets spoken of in Revelation. The rest of the verse seems to be talking about the tribulation period. Any Christian around would be a witness for Christ in a world of darkness. The ‘prepare ye the way of the Lord,’ can be viewed as speaking the truth about Christ and of God’s righteousness in a time of darkness, just as John the Baptist did at the first coming. The righteousness being restored part I would think would be because of conviction of sin that occurs in all people’s hearts when they come to Christ.

    Alternatively, I can see how those in the hyper-charismatic camp might view this first verse as about the elite Joel’s Army preparing the way for Jesus by doing supernatural things. I’m not sure what they would do about the righteousness being restored part, as the people in this camp don’t talk about real sin. Maybe they would interpret that as getting rid of diseases and whatnot…sort of a New Age kind of view of righteousness. That, or supernatural gifts being done.

    Since the chorus doesn’t say when Jesus will return, or by what method, people can see that chorus however they want to. It can be seen as the ultimate return of Christ after the tribulation period, and His restoration of all things. Or, it can be viewed as something that will happen because of those who “prepared the way” through miracles and supernatural power — the elite Joel’s Army.

    The part of salvation coming out of Zion’s hill might be seen as either a reference to Jesus the Messiah (Messianic prophecy being fulfilled) or it can be viewed as some false theology with Zion. I don’t even know what the hyper-charismatics teach about Zion, but Craig mentioned it in a comment above.

    I suppose some might even view this chorus as not having to do with Jesus at all, but rather entirely with the Joel’s Army.

    I always thought that the dry bones becoming as flesh was a reference from Ezekiel about the resurrection that will occur at Jesus’ Second Coming. I’m sure that the hyper-charismatics might put some weird twist to that, like it being the Joel’s Army raising the dead or something like that.

    The rebuilding the temple of praise can be a little trickier. I know that some people believe that the Jews need to build a new temple in Jerusalem in order for all the Messianic passages to be fulfilled. That could be what the verse is referring to. At the same time, I see how some hyper-charismatics might view this as Ihop 24/7 worship or a certain style of worship used in services.

    As far as ‘these are the days of the harvest” that can be seen as the idea that at the end times there will be a great revival. I don’t think that this is actually a biblical concept, but I know people who believe this way, and it isn’t just hyper-charismatics. However, I do think that there will always be people, right up until the very end, who will be saved. I’m more inclined to think that the number will be about the same as it has been throughout time.

    As for the rest of the verse, again, it can be viewed as obedient Christians everywhere who try to reach the world for Christ in a non hyper-charismatic way — just spreading the gospel and witnessing to people. However, those in the hyper-charismatic camp could easily say that this is only referring to Joel’s Army and their supernatural ministry.

    I think the song could be interpreted either way.

  95. Arwen4CJ says:

    Now, a song that is definitely hyper-charismatic is “The River of God” It’s also called “The River Is Here” Even before I learned what it was referring to, I didn’t like the song.

    My United Methodist Church that I grew up in did this song as part of their contemporary worship service. I never heard it in any other context, fortunately, because the song was pretty old back then. My UMC church still sings it. I really intend to tell them the meaning of the song.

    I didn’t like the song before because I didn’t like the tune, I also thought it was just stupid. I didn’t know what it meant — it didn’t seem to be saying anything. It was only after I learned what the Toronto Blessing was that I understood the lyrics. I refuse to sing the lyrics to the song.

    The people at the UMC church have no idea what it is talking about. They just think it’s a fun song.

    I can definitely make a case that it is referring to the Toronto Blessing.

    Down the mountain the river flows
    And it brings refreshing wherever it goes
    Through the valleys and over the fields
    The river is rushing and the river is here

    The river of God sets our feet a-dancing
    The river of God fills our hearts with cheer
    The river of God fills our mouths with laughter
    And we rejoice for the river is here

    The river of God is teeming with life
    And all who touch it can be revived
    And those who linger on this river’s shore
    Will come back thirsting for more of the Lord
    Up to the mountain we love to go
    To find the presence of the Lord
    Along the banks of the river we run
    We dance with laughter giving praise to the Son

    This is an awful, awful song.

    Of course people can still innocently sing this song without realizing what its real meaning is.

    This isn’t based on Scripture at all. The river that they are referring to is the hyper-charismatic river. The whole chorus refers to Toronto blessing manifestations. Not to mention that this song was written in either 1994 or 1995.

    Yes, people can interpret it other ways — they can think of it as just being allegory for God’s love. Still, it is theologically empty and no Scripture whatsoever is being referenced here.

    I do plan to bring this to the attention of people on the worship team at the UMC church. I just haven’t been able to do that yet.

  96. Craig says:

    The following is a synopsis of the Latter Rain movement written by Ed Tarkowski in 1995 during the height of the so-called “Toronto Blessing” or ‘laughing phenomena’. It’s a good overview of the Latter Rain doctrine and “Days of Elijah” should be read with that in mind. Recall that the endtime generation will be called the “Elijah Generation” by LR:

    http://www.velocity.net/~edju70/LatterRain1.htm

    I’d say the most obvious clue that McClurkin’s lyric is LR is this portion:

    “And these are the days of Your servant, David
    Rebuilding the temple of praise”

    That’s Tabernacle of David teaching plain and simple. And, this is essential so that God can “inhabit his people”. Paul Cain has said, (paraphrase), “God can’t rest until He finds His home in man” [I have this on tape but not transcribed]. So, once we complete the “Tabernacle of David” and ‘make all God’s enemys OUR footstool’, THEN “Christ” can return – IN HIS PEOPLE.

  97. Arwen4CJ says:

    Perhaps McClurkin did mean it in the LR way. I don’t know.

    This is why it can be tough to know about the writer’s intention in song lyrics. I’m still not convinced that’s how he intended the song to be understood.

    He didn’t call it a tabernacle in the song. If he had done that, then your case would be stronger. He also didn’t use the word “Elijah Generation.”

    The LR interpretation is possible, but I’m not convinced.

  98. Craig says:

    tabernacle = temple; same thing. Tabernacle would’ve been too long to fit well in the lyrics so Temple is better.

    Bickle, et al have literalized Psalm 22:3 to mean that God/Christ will LITERALLY inhabit our praises such that once we’ve fully ‘rebuilt’ the “Tabernacle of David” Christ/God will inhabit/dwell within His people. I’m sure you can find a quote on the net with Bickle claiming “God inhabits the praises of His people”.

    “And these are the days of Your servant, David
    Rebuilding the temple of praise”

    When I was being ‘recruited’ for the movement, a particular prophetess told me she had a dream/vision about me and in this dream I had “a heart like David”. Uh huh. When it was clear I was not going along and was instead questioning the movement, I was told to never contact her again. I guess she changed her mind about my ‘heart like David. Or, was this ‘prophetess’ just wrong in her dream/vision of me regarding my ‘heart like David’?

    3 But Thou art holy, O Thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel. [Psalm 22:3 KJV]

    See here:

    https://discernmentministriesinternational.wordpress.com/tag/harp-bow-ministry/

  99. Arwen4CJ says:

    Craig,

    From that article, it is very true that some people are using praise and worship in a sinful/unbiblical way. I am not denying this.

    This sort of reminds me of an OK Cupid question I answered (OK Cupid is an online dating site). Someone posed the question, “What do you believe is the primary goal of worship” or something like that. One of the choices was, “To tell God how great He is.” Another choice was “To receive blessings from God.”

    I picked the “To tell God how great He is” response.

    From reading the “To receive blessings from God” response, it really helped me to understand that some people have totally different ideas of what worship is. This question and its answers are quite telling.

    While it is certainly right to be critical and watchful of lyrics, there was a real temple in Israel that people worshiped at. That in and of itself was a biblical concept. Therefore, I can’t assume that the writer of the song meant the hyper-charismatic tabernacle idea. Maybe he did, but maybe he didn’t.

    It is very difficult to determine for sure that he meant the latter rain meaning of tabernacle and inhabiting the praises. If that is really what he meant, then it would be a very bad song. But, given the lyrics, I cannot say for sure. It seems to be speculation and reading that meaning into the song. You could very well be right, but since the author didn’t really spell it out, I’m going to say that it is open to either interpretation. People will interpret it how they want.

    I must say, though, that the idea of God inhabiting the praises of people and creating a spiritual atmosphere sounds very occult to me.

    It’s easy to see that “The River Is Here,” quoted earlier is an unbiblical song because it is referring to the laughter and the dancing, which are not biblical concepts at all. There is nothing in that song that could be taken to mean that it is referencing anything in Scripture. There is no such thing in the Bible called “the river of God.” There is no talk about the banks of the river, etc.

    But in “Days of Elijah” we are dealing with concepts that can be biblical — sure, people can twist them to mean wrong things. Just because something can be found in the Bible doesn’t automatically mean it’s good lyrics or that it is expressing good theology — but it makes it a lot harder to say for sure that it is teaching latter rain doctrine.

    I’m going to have to look the guy up to see what his theological positions are.

  100. Arwen4CJ says:

    Okay — I did a little digging just now. The original author is NOT Donnie McClurkin. (I looked him up and was confused because it looked like he never spent any time in Europe.)

    The original author is Robin Mark.

    I know authorship can be confusing when other artists play songs that other people write, which is the case with Donnie McClurkin and this particular song.

    Here is Robin Mark’s explanation of the meaning behind the song:
    http://robinmark.com/the-story-behind-days-of-elijah/

    From that a person might claim that he has a hidden Latter Rain agenda with the song that he’s not discussing, but I don’t think that he’s trying to hide anything. I think he innocently used some phrases that happen to be popular with the Latter Rain crowd.

  101. Craig says:

    Arwen4CJ,

    You wrote, “I must say, though, that the idea of God inhabiting the praises of people and creating a spiritual atmosphere sounds very occult to me.

    “It’s easy to see that “The River Is Here,” quoted earlier is an unbiblical song because it is referring to the laughter and the dancing, which are not biblical concepts at all. There is nothing in that song that could be taken to mean that it is referencing anything in Scripture. There is no such thing in the Bible called “the river of God.” There is no talk about the banks of the river, etc.”

    I agree – very occult sounding. As far as the ‘laughter and dancing’ there are those who would point to David’s dance and his wife Michal’s disapproval as instructive (they are the ‘Davids’; those who oppose are the ‘Michals’). In addition, I’ve seen some use Ezekiel 44-48 as prooftexts for “the river of God” and equate these with Revelation 22:1-5.

  102. Craig says:

    Arwen4CJ,

    Thanks for finding the true author of the piece.

    In reading his explanation of the song, I beg to differ with your opinion. It seems he did an ‘about-face’ just like Mike Bickle did when he was told that Acts 15/Amos 9 is NOT about a “restoration of the tabernacle of David”. Robin Mark’s words:

    …It is also accepted among restoration theologians that this refers to restored Praise and Worship. The physical temple was “Solomon’s”, David’s “temple” was a little tent but you and I are the Temple of the Holy Spirit…

    Sorry, I disagree. In context, Acts 15:16-17 is about Jesus’ sacrifice which paved the way for Gentiles to be saved, in addition to believing Jews. I made a study of this years ago. The “fallen tent” was the seemingly ‘fallen’ lineage of David – fulfilled in Christ.

  103. Arwen4CJ says:

    I didn’t check the Acts 15:16-17 reference to see what it actually said. I was just saying that it didn’t seem to me like Robin Mark intended for the piece to be dominonist/Latter Rain — as a whole. I’m not saying I agree with everything Robin Mark wrote — but it just seems to me that the main thread of the song isn’t supposed to be Latter Rain doctrine, and that he didn’t intend to make it that way.

    In the lyrics of “The River Is Here” the author of that piece actually wrote. I should mention that the author of “The River is Here” is Andy Park. Anyway, he wrote:

    “The river of God sets our feet a-dancing
    The river of God fills our hearts with cheer
    The river of God fills our mouths with laughter”

    and

    “We dance with laughter giving praise to the Son”

    I actually am familiar with some hyper-charismatics using the story of David’s dance and Michal’s disapproval. The new pastor at the Vineyard in my grad school town gave a sermon on this :( What he seemed to miss was the fact that David was reverent to God. Just before that scene, David’s friend was killed by God for being irreverent towards Him.

    David was dancing before God, yes — but it was part of his worship of God, and he did it with awe and respect for God’s holiness. He didn’t go around laughing or mocking God or acting completely irreverently towards God.

    These people in the hyper-charismatic movement are very irreverent and disrespectful towards God. The whole laughing thing falls into that category.

    This “river” causes people to laugh. In effect, they’re saying that God fills their mouths with laughter.

    Scripture can be twisted to proof text anything. So can song lyrics.

    But anyway — so I guess I’ll have to agree to disagree with you on the meaning behind “Days of Elijah.” I don’t think it is a great song, like I said before. I’d be fine never hearing it in any context again. It’s not my favorite by any means.

  104. Arwen4CJ says:

    Craig,

    I have an idea. You could contact Robin Mark via his website and ask him about the Latter Rain stuff. Ask him if it’s what he means. Or ask him about Latter Rain doctrine or phrases that you find in his lyrics. Ask him to explain those to you, in light of the Latter Rain teaching.

    That’s the only way we can know for sure. If he doesn’t respond, then it will mean that he doesn’t care how we might perceive the lyrics — Latter Rain or otherwise.

  105. Craig says:

    Arwen4CJ,

    In reading the statement on the link you provided, it’s obvious he’s already explained it after receiving inquiries/questions. As I’ve stated earlier, it looks as though he’s reacted just as Bickle did at IHOP via their “Affirmations and Denials” page. Essentially, when the going gets tough, you just say you meant something else.

    I’m not the first one to see the song as Latter Rain. There are entirely too many clues to dismiss the connection, IMO.

    His statement is the typical double speak we get from hyper-charismatics.

    If it were me and I did not want my song confused with Replacement Theology and Restorationism, I would have made that point very clear by speaking out against these things in the statement such as “I do not believe in Replacement Theology because…”

  106. Craig says:

    While searching for something else entirely, I came across this:

    http://www.riverstyxfoundation.org/about-us-2/about-us-2/

    END-OF-LIFE

    “Similarly, the lack of acceptance and fear around death and dying has resulted in massive expenditures of often frivolous and artificial attempts to minimally prolong life at the end, while missing opportunities for reduction of suffering by shifting towards systems of palliative and hospice care. For instance, more than half of Medicare dollars are spent on patients who die within two months, costing tax payers over $300 billion annually, often adding stress to families and reducing the quality of life for many patients. This cultural ‘death denial’ has also prevented society from empowering mentally sound individuals to be able to take greater control over their pain and the timing of their own death.”

    Your Obamacare at work!

    Please note that in Greek mythology the river Styx is a passage to the underworld, separating the living from the dead.

  107. Craig says:

    YIKES!

    http://www.riverstyxfoundation.org/compassion/maps/

    Multi-Disciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
    (National, Based in Sant Cruz, CA)

    MAPS’ mission is
    1.to treat conditions for which conventional medicines provide limited relief—such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), pain, drug dependence, anxiety and depression associated with end-of-life issues—by developing psychedelics and marijuana into prescription medicines;
    2.to cure many thousands of people by building a network of clinics where treatments can be provided; and
    3.to educate the public honestly about the risks and benefits of psychedelics and marijuana.

    Psychedelics?

    Can you spell (Greek) pharmakeia; i.e. sorcery, witchcraft, magical arts, medicine?

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/pharmakeia.html

  108. Craig says:

    The various “Occupy” movements are tied to a much larger movement:

    http://www.occupytheearth.net/

    http://rio20.net/en/iniciativas/occupy-the-earth

    The Rio (de Janeiro) Summit has been held since 1992 with the intention of bringing together those furthering New Age / NWO goals. This includes the UN Agenda 21. This past year’s meeting was the 20th anniversary.

    Here are my observations, my opinions:

    (At least some in) the “occupy” movement wish to overthrow “the state”, i.e. free enterprise, Capitalism, as if it’s some kind of intrinsic evil. Their wish is to replace it with one big communal-type of ‘non-government’. What those involved may or may not realize is that they are playing into the goals of a one world government run by a very few ‘haves’ at the expense of the remaining ‘have nots’.

    Many are mere pawns in the effort to destroy free enterprise, a system which has allowed those partaking – in a cumulative sense – to achieve relative wealth beyond what other types of governments will allow. One of the videos [don't recall which one] even stated that if you have food in the refrigerator and clothes in the closet you are wealthier than 75% of the world. This relative wealth came about by the very system those ‘occupiers’, in their ignorance, wish to cast aside.

    NWO goals are to redistribute the wealth to provide a more ‘equitable’ distribution. The reality is that the goal is to take from those of moderate means (the middle and middle-to-upper class) and give to the poor while the elites keep their money and hence their power, in order to remain overlords over the rest. Those remaining will have lost their relative moderate wealth and hence their power, their means to put forth objections to those who will be in power.

    As I see it, we are on economic collision course; it’s a question of when. We (The US) cannot continue to just make up money by going further and futher into debt, a debt we cannot conceivably ever repay. But, rest assured, there will be a ‘fix’ to this system (see Rev 13:16-18)

    The aforementioned is describing the political aspect; the following the spiritual. On the homepage of the first link are a number of videos. Following are two.

    “…It’s an opportunity to evolve…We have the potential of conscious [sic] evolution at this point…we can’t just resist. We resist and resist and resist…we smash the state like ‘awesome’, but then what?”

    YOU ARE GOD

    “…Welcome to a new world, a new world. What is happening to you is an awakening. What is happening to you is one of the greatest things that can happen to any human being. And although at this time it may seem very dark, know that a very bright light is about to emerge inside you.” [8:49 – 9:20]

    This consciousness evolution, or spiritual awakening is nothing short of mass demonic oppression / possession. Alice Bailey’s demon Djwal Khul (D.K.) stated these goals through Bailey. The Bible provides the prophecy. As stated in the first part of this article, the Bailey/D.K. provides a sort of photographic negative to the positive of Biblical prophecy. It’s a spiritual battle that we fight by standing firm and with prayer (Eph 6:10-18)

  109. Craig says:

    The USSA? – United Socialist States of America?

    http://www.staged.com/video?v=Klmb

  110. Craig says:

    Katy Perry and Megan Fox both speak in tongues, but who’s behind their tongue? Fox describes speaking in tongues:

    “It feels like a lot of energy coming through the top of your head–I’m going to sound like such a lunatic–and then your whole body is filled with this electric current. And you just start speaking, but you’re not thinking because you have no idea what you’re saying. Words are coming out of your mouth, and you can’t control it. The idea is that it’s a language that only God understands. It’s the language that’s spoken in heaven. It’s called ‘getting the Holy Ghost.’”

    http://www.charismanews.com/us/35257-katy-perry-megan-fox-on-speaking-in-tongues

    Here’s a Megan Fox quote:

    If your idea of a role model is somebody who’s gonna preach to your kids that sex before marriage is wrong and cursing is wrong and women should be this and be that, then I’m not a role model. But if you want your girls to feel strong and intelligent and be outspoken and fight for what they think is right, then I want to be that type of role model, yeah.” [from http://www.showbizspy.com/article/186813/megan-fox-im-a-role-model-for-strong-women.html ]

    Does that sound ‘Christian’?

    And, Katy Perry from wiki:

    …Through Twitter and by performing at his rallies, the singer has endorsed President Barack Obama due to his stance on same-sex marriage,[85][86][112][113][114] believing in “equal rights for all”…[115]

    There are many other ‘religious traditions’ which speak in tongues.

  111. Craig says:

    Carolyn wrote (on another thread and reposted here):

    Obama is on fire???? Good grief…

    http://todayentertainment.today.com/_news/2013/01/21/16631050-alicia-keys-changes-tune-to-obamas-on-fire-at-inaugural-ball?lite

    There’s no doubt that President Obama is in the ‘inner circle’. I’d say he’s being groomed for something important and beyond just the US Presidency.

  112. Carolyn says:

    Yes, there’s no other explanation for what’s happening.

  113. Craig says:

    Mentioned in the article is the fact that jazz/classical pianist (and composer) Keith Jarrett had suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in the late ’90s. In addition, it’s noted that CFS is a recognized potential side affect of Kundalini arousals. A name used for one of Jarrett’s music publishing companies was “Kundalini Music”. Is this all mere coincidence?

    Here’s part of a documentary on Keith Jarrett in which his bout with CFS is briefly discussed. The discussion starts at about :38 with Jarrett stating at 1:10:

    I remember saying to Rose Anne, “It’s as though aliens invaded my body”. I mean, that’s how it felt. And actually, according to the guy at National [ED, ?], that’s exactly what was happening.

    That’s an interesting choice of words.

  114. Carolyn says:

    Craig…wow…I have CFS but so far, I don’t play any kundalini music. That sounds a bit superstitious, maybe not for Keith, since I’ve heard his alien music, :-) but I’m personally not owning up to alien invasion. Besides, my daughter has it also…so I’d say, for us, I’m going with the gene thing. Taking God into consideration, our sufferings are allowed for a reason, that’s what I DO believe.

  115. Carolyn says:

    With regards to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, the cause still remains a mystery. Most doctors treat it with anti-depressants to boost energy (I boost my energy with too much coffee). But here is one possible cause. And since I have had Hashimoto”s Thyroiditis for 20 years as well, if it was a virus, then it most certainly worked on my immune system, causing its destruction.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC51352/pdf/pnas01057-0319.pdf

    Retroviral sequences related to human T-lymphotropic virus type II in patients with chronic fatigue immune dysfunction syndrome

    Although our data support an association between an HTLV-like agent and CFIDS, we cannot, as yet, define the agent’s role in the disease process. Rather than an etiologic agent, it may be a benign secondary infection to which immunologically compromised patients are susceptible. Alternatively, it may be one of two viruses that, when co-infecting the same hematopoeticcels, induce immune dysfunction. In any case biological characterization of this agent and its role in the pathogenesis of CFIDS awaits its isolation.

    I don’t think the kundalini invasion would be classified as CFS…although it could cause similar dysfunctional symptoms.

    If my body was invaded by something like a virus, as this paper suggests, so far, there are no definite conclusions. Perhaps a weak immune system to begin with would predispose me for the agent’s ability to infect. Just like cancer…some people are more predisposed than others.

    Dysfunction…the story of our lives on earth. All part of the curse of sin. One day, through Christ, we will have new bodies, with no sickness and no disease. Something to look forward to.

  116. Craig says:

    Carolyn,

    I know of others who’ve had CFS, and it’s no fun. It’s apparently been mostly a mystery as to its cause.

    I hope you aren’t misunderstanding that I was making a direct causal link between CFS and Kundalini arousal, as if the one must have come from the other. If you’ll read the portion in the article carefully (start at “Keith Jarrett, a child prodigy…”), you’ll see that my point is that Kundalini practitioners warn that CFS has been linked with Kundalini; and given Jarrett’s associations, and use of “Kundalini” as one of his music publishing companies, I wondered if it possible that his somewhat recent bout with CFS came from a Kundalini arousal. My most recent comment was a follow-up on that, as I happened upon the Jarrett documentary.

  117. Carolyn says:

    Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. I did have a small idea that you were relating CFS or CFIDS with spiritual complications rather than a physical root cause.

    I have an aversion to doctors because they are baffled by my tiredness and would prefer to blame it on something else like depression or stress or my thyroid. It’s a vicious cycle and one that I prefer to ignore as much as possible. If someone comes up with a cure, then I’ll start listening. My daughter spent three years chasing for some kind of relief from doctors and still nothing.

    I do know that if you are positive for the virus, you are not allowed to give blood. They have come that far.

    Anyhow, yes, the kundalini serpent is responsible for many more problems than just CFS.

    On a positive note: I do not believe that a person who has been born of the Spirit can be invaded by the kundalini spirit. He must flee…no serpent spirit is any match for the strong man (Christ). We are weak, but HE (Christ) is strong. I do, however, believe that we can be influenced by thoughts…and really, the only power that Satan has over a Christian, is the POWER of persuasion. He can take us for many “side trips” during the course of our walk, but always under the watchful eye of our Creator/Saviour/Lord.

    A friend of mine has a miniature toy schnauzer. We walk on the dyke and the little dog is allowed some freedom, but there are the ever present hawks and bald eagles gliding above or perched in a tree beside the trail. My friend never takes her eye off the little wanderer and if he gets too bold, he is put on a shorter leash. It’s a little story of our Lord’s watchful eye on his children. His Spirit/Word is like the leash that keeps us close and alive.

    And while I’m likening false prophets to birds, a goshawk got into our chicken coop years ago. I got between the chicken and the hawk and experienced the wildest, most terrifying eyes I could imagine. They searched the very depth of my soul and put me into a condition of paralysis which is what they do to the poor chicken. It reminds me of the way a false prophet(predator) sometimes stands on his/her platform and surveys their prey. They look straight through the crowd and with a withering stare in the direction of their victim(s), they demand the relinquishment of their sense and/or their money…it works every time….

  118. Craig says:

    Marilyn Crispell is an avant garde/free jazz pianist composer whose output I’ve appreciated over the years. She is classically trained and had never even heard jazz music until her twenties (in the 1970s). At that time, she had stopped playing altogether after a divorce. Later when she heard John Coltrane’s A Love Supreme (see my commentary in the article) for the first time she had an emotional experience which led her to performing jazz. [Coltrane had passed away in 1967.] She relates the following in the notes to one of her recordings:

    I was listening to “A Love Supreme” one night and it changed my life. I decided to get back into music and I had this mystical experience where I felt the presence and guiding of Coltrane’s spirit in the room. I asked for his help and I know he gave it to me because I could feel him there and because right afterwards everything in my life went so suddenly and strongly in the right direction….

    Of course, she did not really feel the presence of Coltrane’s spirit, and she did not receive his help. This truly very deeply saddens me. It was only very recently that I’d read this, though I’ve appreciated her artistry for years.

    Here’s her rendition of the Coltrane composition titled “Dear Lord”. It’s clear (in the article) that Coltrane did not write this with the true Christian God in view; yet, the piece is beautiful nonetheless.

    In my opinion, one can listen to this and think of and worship the true Christian God instead of the one initially intended. What do you think?

  119. just1ofhis says:

    This comes to mind:

    “My heart is stirred by a noble theme
    as I recite my verses for the king;
    my tongue is the pen of a skillful writer.

    You are the most excellent of men
    and your lips have been anointed with grace,
    since God has blessed you forever.

    Gird your sword upon your side,
    O mighty one;
    clothe yourself with splendor and majesty.

    In your majesty ride forth victoriously
    in behalf of truth, humility and righteousness;
    let your right hand display awesome deeds.

    Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s enemies;
    let the nations fall beneath your feet.

    Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
    a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

    You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
    therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
    by anointing you with the oil of joy.

    All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia;
    from palaces adorned with ivory
    the music of the strings makes you glad.

    Daughters of kings are among your honored women;
    at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.”

    Psalm 45:1-9

    That was what came to mind as I listened, which I think, Craig, supports your point.
    btw, the next verse is a key one that God used to help me understand the falling away in the church and the need to come out of her:

    “Listen, O daughter, consider and give ear;
    Forget your people and your father’s house.”

  120. Craig says:

    just1ofhis,

    I’m glad you were provided this Scripture. I like what Derek Kidner wrote regarding verse 7 in his commentary [as quoted in Bill Johnson's Christology: A New Age Chirst, part IV (conclusion)]:

    …[V]erse 7 distinguishes between God, your God, and the king of verse 6. This paradox is consistent with the incarnation, but mystifying in any other context. It is an example of Old Testament language bursting its banks, to demand more than a human fulfillment…

    It’s making an explicit claim of Jesus Christ’s deity, that He was in fact God when He walked the earth.

  121. Craig says:

    In the following, I’ve taken a bit of the previous quote in my comment above (3/28/13 6:52am) and made some minor alterations (bolded):

    …I had this mystical experience where I felt the presence and guiding of Jesus’ Spirit in the room. I asked for his help and I know he gave it to me because I could feel him there and because right afterwards everything in my life went so suddenly and strongly in the right direction….

    I submit that her experience is not much different from some of the hyper-charismatics.

  122. Craig says:

    Here’s a humorous depiction of the way your bank deposits are mishandled:

    http://vimeo.com/43762138

    Just remember Cyprus from a month or so ago….

  123. Craig says:

    Vatican invites Buddhists to help build culture of life

    http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=7570#ixzz2Sc7NVcw5

    Extract from the article follows:

    Vesakh is a major Buddhist holy day that commemorates the birth, enlightenment, and death of Gautama Buddha.

    According to tradition, the historical Buddha was born, achieved enlightenment and passed away during the full moon of the month of May. This means that Vesakh is a movable feast, which this year falls on May 24 or 25, depending on the country it is celebrated in.

    On those days, Buddhists visit local temples to offer the monks food and to hear the teachings of the Buddha, taking special care to meditate and to observe the eight precepts of Buddhism.

    This year’s message is entitled: “Christians and Buddhists: Loving, Defending, and Promoting Human Life.” The letter is signed by Cardinal Tauran, prefect of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, and Father Miguel Angel Ayuso Guixot, the council’s secretary.

    Cardinal Tauran also recalled that Pope Francis believes in the importance of interreligious dialogue.

    Why would the Vatican promote, in any form or fashion, Gautama Buddha? I hope this isn’t some sort of oblique nod to either Wesak or “World Invocation Day”:

    Since 1952 World Invocation Day has been observed as a global day of spiritual healing.

    Also on the site promoting World Invocation Day is the following quote from The Rays and the Initiations by Alice A. Bailey:

    Some day a scientific study will be made of the great world prayers, spiritual statements and invocative appeals and their relation to world events; this relationship will become illuminatingly apparent and the result will be a closer linking of earth and the spiritual centres of Love and Life.

  124. Arwen4CJ says:

    “Pope Francis, at the very beginning of his ministry, has reaffirmed the necessity of a dialogue of friendship among followers of different religions. He noted that: ‘The Church is … conscious of the responsibility which all of us have for our world, for the whole of creation, which we must love and protect. There is much that we can do to benefit the poor, the needy, and those who suffer, and to favor justice, promote reconciliation, and build peace.’”

    Read more: http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=7570#ixzz2SeRmwJr4

    That’s just the social gospel. What about teaching people about Jesus and what He has done for us? Why not also share the gospel message?

    All of this social gospel stuff can only be done in its proper context, which has Christ at the center. It’s great to work towards good things for the world….but not apart from Jesus Christ.

    Interfaith dialogue would be fine IF it was just dialogue — teaching others who were interested about the Christian faith, and allowing them to tell us what they believed, so that evangelism might take place. Let them learn about Christianity so that they might come to Jesus, let us learn about other faiths so that we might better know how to reach these people, and to show them that we are willing to understand where they are coming from — but let’s not back down from our mission to spread the gospel…and from our belief that Jesus is the only way.

    So often these interfaith dialogues are nothing more than interfaith “evangelism” — teaching people that all religions are the same, and that we should just get along. Then they have interfaith services, allowing us all to “worship God by whatever name we choose to call Him.” Sigh. This is what it sounds to me like the Vatican is trying to do…. :(

    So I want to know if Pope Francis wants an interfaith religion, and whether or not this upcoming service thingy is going to be an interfaith service between Christians and Buddhists. That’s exactly what it sounds like to me. :( Will they have yoga sessions and Eastern meditation as part of the service? Will they talk about the “benefits” of these things?

  125. Craig says:

    I posted the above comment (in a slightly different form) on another blog frequented by Catholics. The first response I received mentioned Paul in Acts 17; however, I countered that Paul expressly preached about the Christian God (as their unknown god) on Mars Hill. He didn’t use the opportunity for mere dialogue.

    Then I added that, according to Alice Bailey/New Age, Gautama Buddha is known as “the Christ” of the “Age of Aries” who directly preceded “Jesus” as “the Christ” for the “Age of Pisces”, our current era. Wesak/Vesakh

    http://www.lucistrust.org/en/meetings_and_events/three_major_spiritual_festivals/wesak

    …is followed a month later by “The Festival of the Christ” (see this article near top) and “World Invocation Day”:

    http://www.lucistrust.org/en/meetings_and_events/three_major_spiritual_festivals/the_christ_s_festival

  126. Arwen4CJ says:

    Right — how can we be true Christians without sharing the good news of Jesus Christ with them? I’ve had discussions with people of different faiths before, but I always lay out the Christian beliefs so that they know what I believe and what all Christians believe.

    It’s quite telling that the Vatican is willing to acknowledge this Buddhist festival, and even speak at it! Unless they are preaching the Christian gospel, then they are just saying that it’s okay to be Buddhist, and that Jesus is just a way. That’s really what they are doing — approving of pagan religious festivals. :(

    Let’s see whether or not the Vactican pushes for “The Festival of the Christ” or “World Invocation Day.”

  127. Craig says:

    I really don’t expect the Vatican to overtly promote in any form or fashion “The Festival of the Christ” or “World Invocation Day”. But, who knows what happens behind the scenes?

    I think the same from some hyper-charismatic leaders. There’d been some documentation of events held during key occult-related times (full moons, certain times in the wee hours of the morning, etc.); but, of course, none of them would overtly admit to partaking in pagan/occult ceremonies.

  128. Arwen4CJ says:

    No, I don’t think that they would say “we support New Age,” but they might host an event that they call “The Festival of Christ” or “World Invocation Day,” but use Christian words for it…..and it would be subtle, such as this Buddhist thing. It would probably be in the background — not something that the Pope declares, or is made a big deal of.

    I agree that if any group supports these occult expressions, including hyper-charismatics, that they would try to not do it openly, but that it would be subtle, and in the background, and whatever it was that was being promoted, they would make sure to use Christian terms.

  129. Carolyn says:

    Here’s a video I’m presently taking a look at. I asked a question in a discussion with a non-Christian who is quite well informed on the Illuminati, Roman Catholic/Vatican race to world domination…whether he thought that the chicken or the egg came first…was it the illuminati that produced the Jesuits or the Jesuits who produced the Illuminati. Well, I have done my own research on that and have come up with my own answers. hint: Adam Weishaupt…and of course that can even be debated.

    My source is opting for revolution…I am not. However, I do like to have a bit of an edge on how and why we should be expecting a third world war. Call it curiosity. My last comment to him was, and I know I’m right…can’t you just see the powers that be (Big Brothers Inc.) stroking their chins with their thumbs and saying “just give me a reason”….the revolutionaries will be first on the hit list.

    Anyhow, some thoughts…oh yes, there will be those with their heads in the sand that scoff at the Illuminati but I’m talking to those who have half an eye open…and want to know what’s up….

  130. Craig says:

    I’ve been following the Kaitlyn Hunt case in Florida, in which the 18 year old was charged with the felony of lewd and lascivious battery on a 12 to 16 year old. The victim in this case was 14 (recently turned 15). Following are the developments:

    The parents of the 18 year old and their supporters have been on a smear campaign with the “Stop the Hate, Free Kate” propaganda, to include spreading outright lies about the facts of the case itself (including ages of both girls) and making allegations that the parents of the 14 year old girl sought criminal actions strictly because of the homosexual nature of the relationship. Following is a short list of lies perpetuated by the Hunt family and supporters, further perpetuated by some irresponsible ‘official’ media outlets (here’s one with half-truths with comments correcting some of them), with corresponding truths:

    1) FALSE CLAIM: The other parents (and/or the DA’s office) are only pushing charges because they’re bigoted and anti-gay.

    TRUTH: The parents of the 14 year old, the Smiths, have claimed this is not the case. While it’s possible the Smiths are not being entirely truthful, for the Hunts to make this charge without some sort of ‘proof’ is potentially libelous/slanderous.

    2) FALSE CLAIM: The girls were 17 and 15 (or 17 and 14) at the time of the relationship (or during the bulk of the relationship).

    TRUTH: They were 18 and 14 respectively as per the arrest affidavit [WARNING: sexual details] (why didn’t NYT actually write an unbiased full article thereby correcting the numerous false accounts?), as Kaitlyn’s DOB is listed as 8/14/94; the relationship is reported to have begun in November of 2012, turning sexual in December 2012 (in a school bathroom). Judging by some comments, it appears that the 14 year old turned 15 around March or April of this year; therefore, there is, by my calculations, roughly 3 years and 7 months between the two girls’ ages. In the arrest affidavit, the officer asked Kaitlyn if she knew it was wrong to have sex with the younger girl given her age, with Kaitlyn’s response that she “didn’t think about it” because the 14 year old “acted older”.

    3) FALSE CLAIM: The other parents maliciously waited until Kaitlyn turned 18 so they could get her charged with a crime.

    TRUTH: Kaitlyn was 18 the entire time, as the above indicates. In an interview with corresponding article, the Smiths assert they told Kaitlyn to stay away from their daughter (my question: why didn’t they try to contact her parents?) on two separate occasions before January 4th, on which date the parents discovered their daughter missing. In the interview, the Smiths claim they assumed the worst, that someone had abducted their daughter; so, she was reported missing. Found “safe” at the Hunt residence the whole time (not clear on how long), it was revealed per the affidavit that they had sex. My question: where were Kaitlyn’s parents while this was going on? Are they potentially liable for being complicit?

    4) FALSE CLAIM: She’s being charged just for things such as holding hands and kissing.

    TRUTH: Once again, the affidavit proves this false.

    5) FALSE CLAIM: It was a consensual relationship; it cannot be considered predatory.

    TRUTH: The age of consent in Florida is 18. In Florida, legally, a 14 year old lacks the capacity to consent to a sexual relationship of any type. While there are exceptions for individuals up to 23 years of age to have sexual relationships with others as young as 16 or 17, there is NO exception regarding 14 year olds.

    Just because the two in question knew each other does not rule out the possibility of this being predatory. The 18 year old is the adult, the 14 year old the child, as per law. Just imagine yourself as a (very impressionable) 14 year old freshman who receives attention from an attractive senior who is very popular to boot. Is it possible the 18 year old used both her age and her position of influence (popularity) to lure the younger one? I’d think so.

    The bottom line: The irresponsible media picks up on the “poor, victimized gay girl” story without even attempting to confirm facts, while homosexual advocates jump in the fray, leaving the Smiths with little choice but to come out and make some kind of statement. Sadly, some have stooped so low as to publish the victim’s name, her parents’ names, as well as their address and phone number on social media as a way to directly harass the Smiths.

    So, who’s “intolerant”?

    Read more here:

    http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/317647/19/Online-support-grows-for-student-facing-sex-charges

    http://theothermccain.com/2013/05/23/damn-you-freekate-liars/

    http://spectator.org/blog/2013/05/25/lesbian-teen-kaitlyn-hunt

    For info on the so-called “Romeo and Juliet” laws

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/05/25/kaitlyn-hunt-and-the-romeo-and-juliet-problem/

    …the law provides no relief in the form of an instant “not guilty” finding. The laws still stand as described. This only involves whether or not the perpetrator will wind up on the sex offender registry. And even then, it only allows them to petition to be taken off the list. It’s not automatic.

    The above is one of the few forums containing many rational comments.

  131. Craig says:

    The following documentary, aptly titled Seeds of Death, is an excellent expose on Monsanto and Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs). US government is quite obviously complicit, in my view, by agreeing with Monsanto that their seeds are “natural” in order to avoid testing and labeling by USDA and FDA; however, for purposes of patenting, the claim is that they are DIFFERENT (1:00:51 – 1:01:54):

    And, since the Monsanto seeds are patented, Monsanto has filed lawsuits against farmers, many of whom wanted nothing to do with GMOs, yet because their fields were contaminated by GMO corn (e.g.) via genetically modified corn pollen floating onto their previously unaffected fields, Monsanto claims they are now using THEIR patent (1:04:07 – 1:04:50).

  132. Carolyn says:

    1 John 5:18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and hasgiven us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and weare in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God andeternal life.

    The evil one does not touch him…Satan is not allowed to touch him. To me that means that he’s not allowed to make him sin beyond recovery. He’s not allowed to ruin him because he’s under God’s protection. He is allowed at times to test his faith, to buffet him, to bring earthly sorrow his way, but only as God allows for his own purposes.

    The whole world lies in the power of the evil one. That means that without the restraint of the Holy Spirit through whichever means he chooses to restrain, we are like the fly in the spider web. We are powerless to escape.

    Because we have removed God from the equation in our schools, in our homes and communities, we have removed the power of the Restrainer. The children are easy targets. I remember a similar situation (the Kaitlyn sex scenario) that could have turned out similar for me and mine, When I was a young girl…maybe ten, and staying over at an older friend’s place. My parents had not a clue of what went on there. We slept in the basement where there was easy access to her uncle’s porn books lying around in stacks. My friend was reading them and she intended to have me for her test experiment….but something stopped her. She just stopped dead. It wasn’t me stopping her. I believe it was the Holy Spirit I had a measure of faith in God through the salvation message that I had heard (and believed). I have experienced that same restraining influence many, many more times throughout my life.

    Speaking of Gay…Abbotsford had its first gay pride parade the other day. They were exulting over throwing off the restraints of the religious people in what has been called the Bible Belt of British Columbia. It made me a little sick.
    http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/news/VIDEO+Abbotsford+pride+parade+brightens+city+hall/8441620/story.html

    Jeremiah 6:16
    Thus says the Lord, “Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’

    As for the flood of evil coming through wars and rumours of wars, the evil Monsanto GMOs, as well as the tyranny of drugs, occult and murders that we are experiencing daily, the Restrainer is still at work. Through angelic intervention, through salt and light of Christian believers, it has been deterred. Soon, however, that restraining influence will be taken out of the way. I believe we are seeing the gradual removal of the influence of the Restrainer as we speak. Revolutions and demonstrations such as the global one that Vancouver took part in a few days ago:
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/demonstrators-rally-against-monsanto-in-global-anti-gmo-protest-1.1296661
    …will not be enough to restrain the evil tide that Lucifer, the destroyer, will bring on those who have chosen to worship him.

    Call it wishful thinking or hopeful conditioning, but I expected to be gone before seeing the tide of thoroughly evil influence that is raging on our planet, but lo and behold, I am here to see it. But for how long? I’m only thankful that God demonstrated his own love, in that while I was still a sinner, Christ died for me….I have hope, but it’s not for this present age.

  133. Carolyn says:

    Regarding the Monsanto GMO’s, as I was reading this commentary http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=jer&chapter=012
    this morning on Jeremiah 12, I was struck with a couple of things: how apathetic and unconcerned the people were about God’s instructions to them in the face of drastic judgements on their land and how God allowed the land to be completely ravished in order to get their attention.

    Here is one verse that stood out:
    “Verse 10
    “Many shepherds have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness. They have made it a desolation; it mourneth unto me, being desolate, because no man layeth it to heart. Destroyers are come upon all the bare heights in the wilderness; for the sword of Jehovah devoureth from one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh hath peace. They have sown wheat, and have reaped thorns; they have put themselves to pain, and profit nothing: and ye shall be ashamed of your fruits, because of the fierce anger of Jehovah.”; “Desolate… desolation… Desolate …” (Jeremiah 12:10-11).

    This is the prophetic picture of the result of God’s punishment of his Once Beloved Israel. The destruction is so thorough that the very land itself is depicted as mourning over it.”

    (And in principle, we are listening to false shepherds and not laying to heart what God is saying to us in our North American culture.)

    “Because no man layeth it to heart …” (Jeremiah 12:11). This actually should be translated, “`Because no man laid it to heart’; had the people laid it to heart this sad state of things would have been averted.”[13] It was the indifference and unconcern of the Chosen People that led to their ruin.

    I am watching a series of videos about the Illuminati and I thought this one was worthy of everyone’s attention:

    I think we are having a rare window of opportunity to see with our own eyes what Satan’s illuminated ones are doing and this window will be closing up shortly. Now is the time to have a peek through the window. Now is the day of Salvation in Christ. Tomorrow may be too late.

    Instead of believing what we are told, we should have a look at the facts. We are not the conspirators of evil…Satan is…we are just observers. But what are we observing…soaps? football? distracting religious spirits? false prophets? fear mongers? entertainment to settle us into an “Alpha” brain sleep? What? Obey Christ…WAKE UP!

  134. Craig says:

    I find this both absolutely fascinating and totally heartbreaking at the same time. The following article is on a pro-New Age website, in which the author recognizes the UN Agenda 21 ‘agenda’ to redistribute world wealth (except for the elites) such that ALL will have lowered living standards, yet thinks the “dark cabal” who is implementing these changes will soon be taken out by Alice Bailey’s ‘externalised hierarcy’ (termed “galactic family”):

    http://pathwaytoascension.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/agenda-21-for-lower-living-standards/

    THE GOOD NEWS is that our galactic family now has permission to intervene and make certain the dark cabal is removed from all positions of power on this planet. Were it not for our galactic family’s assistance, we would not have the knowledge of what is actually happening and the technology to neutralize the cabal in their extremely sinister plans.

    It is important to listen to this interview and learn just how close all of Earth’s inhabitants have come to total enslavement. This will help even those who are not aware of our galactic family’s presence with us to greet them with open arms and heart when they openly land on our planet.

    The YouTube video/audio is facilitated by Dr. Stanley Monteith, a frequent guest on Constance Cumbey’s radio show on Saturdays.

    ______________________

    In addition, this same website has an article AMERICA’S NEWS MEDIA IS TIGHTLY CONTROLLED – HERE’S UNEQUIVOCAL PROOF, in which the author remarks that the American media did not even report on the worldwide marches against Monsanto:

    THANKS TO RUSSIAN TIMES, AMERICANS CAN WITNESS

    &

    KNOW UNEQUIVOCALLY THAT OUR NEWS MEDIA

    TELLS US ONLY WHAT THE CABAL WANTS US TO KNOW!

    A WORLDWIDE MARCH CALLING FOR AN END TO

    MONSANTO’S SEIZURE OF AND GENETICALLY MODIFYING

    OUR FOOD AND SEEKING TO PATENT ALL FOOD SEEDS SO THAT NO ONE

    CAN GROW NON-GMO FOODS!

    THERE WAS NO AMERICAN MEDIA COVERAGE OF THIS WORLDWIDE

    DEMONSTRATION.

    RUSSIAN TIMES PROVIDES AN ASTONISHING COVERAGE

    http://rt.com/news/march-against-monsanto-gmo-776/

  135. Carolyn says:

    It is the hard reality that the media is controlled by the Illuminati. See, now there’s that word again that no one likes but its “pyramid” structure is just so ever present…for those that have eyes to see..

    Further, yes eyes are being opened to Agenda 21 and its despicable…agenda…

    the reality of Christ’s words are ringing clearer and clearer…Matt. 24:22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

    As are the words of Revelation describing the 4 horsemen who are “given power to kill”…

    It’s the solutions that aren’t ringing true…like being saved by aliens…

    It would seem that the solutions being swallowed by those being squeezed by the parallel government (UN) are being propagated by the same government so that they will believe a lie. And yes, we are getting to the point where we would accept almost anything other than the fear of the tyranny and chaos coming upon us.

    As Christians, it’s important that we keep focused on what the real problem is and why the world is undergoing this destruction…they have chosen to worship the Beast, Lucifer, power, angels, earthly dominion, idols of gold and silver (money, banking, finance), religion rather than Christ, ultimately, illusion and deception rather than solid, factual truth.

    Psalm 52:3
    You love evil rather than good, falsehood rather than speaking the truth.

    2 Thessalonians 2:10
    and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

  136. Craig says:

    Good news, for once:

    http://now.msn.com/lords-prayer-replaces-graduation-speech-for-valedictorian?gt1=50501

    Roy Costner IV wrote a speech for his graduation, submitted it to the school for approval and was prepared to read it to the crowd on Saturday afternoon. But the South Carolina valedictorian stunned everyone when he tore up his prepared words and recited the Lord’s Prayer instead. “I’m so glad that both of my parents led me to the Lord at a young age,” he said before starting the prayer, his words quickly drowned out by the crowd’s cheers. Costner was reportedly protesting the school district’s decision not to include prayers at this year’s graduation ceremonies; a district spokesman said Costner wouldn’t face disciplinary action. “We’re not going to punish students for expressing their religious faiths,” he said.

    Thankfully, he had the support of some of his fellow students.

  137. Carolyn says:

    That is good news Craig. The gospel is good news. The simplicity of the Word is good news. And even better news…those who still believe it!!

    Since I posted some rather heavy material on the Illuminati above, I’d like to follow up with a few comments…hopefully as an encouragement to the serious follower of Christ.

    The Illuminati is not a Mexican chip dip or an Italian sports car. It is Satan’s New World Order where he has a hierarchy of Occult members in secret societies all working together to bring Order out of Chaos…and deluded into thinking it is a good thing. Meanwhile they are on a pathway that will lead them to the worship of Lucifer. Many are already openly worshipping Lucifer for they have no knowledge of the true gospel and of the true Christ.

    It is still surprising to me that an Illuminati initiate such as Svali can work in a Christian school by day and be a head trainer in the Illuminati at night. What gives?

    To me it underscores the fact that there are MANY on the broad road of Christianity. They have not progressed onto the narrow road to walk after Christ into maturity. They stay outside the gates redefining the basic elements of Christianity or allowing angels to do it for them. They are those who wish to use the gospel for their own advantage…be it prosperity, religion, earthly dominion, spiritual power, empire building, etc.

    We worship in Spirit and Truth…passing through the strait gate (strait means difficult…the difficult way, the path of resistance and littered with obstacles that manifest the moment we attempt to enter by simple faith in Christ) and the narrow way…(that very specific, and ONLY way through faith in Christ)…and FEW find it because sinful flesh cannot inherit the promise of eternal life.

    The heavenly reward is too great, the price that Christ paid is too precious to allow those who are wilful and rebellious onto the narrow path of maturity and righteousness in Christ set out in the New Testament. Consequently they stay outside, making up new rules and falling for false gospels of apostate leaders such as Rob Bell. He is but one example of those who make the Christian path broader and easier to access in ever widening circles of tolerance and ambiguity. There are many versions of the Lie but only one version of the Truth.

    Revelation 22:14-16
    King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
    16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    The good news is that if we are on the narrow path, nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus:
    Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    That’s not just good news, that’s great news!

  138. Craig says:

    For those who have witnessed that many of the folks in positions of leadership in the US Government seem to have selective amnesia, I offer the following:

    And, here:

  139. Craig says:

    Here’s a very bizarre NASA Power Point demonstration titled “Future Strategic Issues” from 07/2001, discussing a multitude of issues:

    http://fedgeno.com/documents/future-strategic-issues-and-warfare.pdf

    The subjects include cyborgs, transhumanism, robots, artificial intelligence (AI), military and economic threats/trends. Slide #66 follows:

    Increasingly Critical Human
    Limitations/Downsides
    • Large
    • Heavy
    • Tender
    • Slow (Pysically [sic], Mentally)
    • Require Huge Logistic Train(s)
    i.e. Humans have rapidly decreasing-to-negative
    “Value Added”

    I wonder how those in positions of power will rectify the problem (as they see it), given how they see increasing population itself as a problem…

  140. Craig says:

    For those who watch Alex Jones and infowars, here’s a video showing Jones with David Icke – who has written books promoting occult / new age ideas, while also exposing same. Jones himself is sold on the idea of ‘planetary energy’, in other words the ‘etheric realm’ (see Word Becomes Spirit section here) in a positive way, rather than negative.

    Jones has been spreading information and disinformation for quite a while now.

    Here’s wiki on esoteric energy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_(esotericism)

    And here’s a Lucis Trust site the video maker refers to (13:50):

    http://www.lucistrust.org/en/arcane_school/the_electric_bridge/general_articles/science_alchemy_and_psychological_transmutation

  141. Craig says:

    One of my favorite secular rock bands has many different offshoots from individual members doing solo releases or releases with other individuals/groups. One such offshoot is a rather obscure release, which begins with a short piece (less than a minute) with the following lyrics:

    Experienced in life
    he died
    to let another
    be inside
    [- I Can Smell the Coffee]

    Being aware of what New Agers call a “walk-in”, I was stunned upon hearing these words. For more on what a “walk-in” is, hear Constance Cumbey in an interview in the following at 11:36 – 13:00:

    The person taking leave of their body for the “walk-in” is known as a “walk-out”.

    The entire interview is good, though it starts out a bit slow. You’ll find part 2 on YouTube as well.

    As to the lyrics above, I’m not sure if the writer is espousing the view or poking fun at it. He usually uses sarcasm, being facetious in his writings. This makes me unsure. The very next track begins with the following, which makes me think he’s not serious:

    It was you who first told me
    you’d seen saucers in the sky
    It was you who first said it
    you can see it in the eyes
    [- The Fear Grows]

  142. Arwen4CJ says:

    The walk-in stuff reminds me of the awful TV show “Supernatural.” I forget if I mentioned it on here before. I don’t know if anyone here has seen it…..my roommates in graduate school loved it, so I watched a few episodes with them to see what they were talking about.

    In it, angels and demons would basically possess people by being a walk-in, as is defined in this video clip above. The original soul would leave someone, and the angel or demon would use the body, taking the place of the soul.

    It was supposed to be a movie about Revelation and the end times, as they quoted Scripture from Revelation and talked about the apocalypse, but it wasn’t meant to be a Christian show in the least. They just used the idea of the apocalypse and Revelation for the plot of their story.

    Since it wasn’t Christian, and I doubt that the writers were Christian, they really mangled Revelation. There was no mention of Jesus at all or of His return. It just portrayed angels and demons fighting for people’s souls in a twisted way, and it really messed up all the prophecies in Revelation.

    For example, when the Bible talks about the dead in Christ rising, they turned that into an attack by zombies. But they quoted Scripture about people rising from the dead.

  143. Craig says:

    The following book was referenced over on Constance Cumbey’s blog: The Gospel of Barack Hussein Obama According to Mark. There is a preview feature on Amazon:

    Here’s a blurb from page 2:

    In the year 1961, the first upside down year since 1881 where there will be no such year until 6009, Barack Hussein Obama was born in no less of a month than August and no greater a symbolic day as 4. The Anointed One was incarnated into this world on August 4, 1961, praises be unto him.

    You can read some more of this blasphemy at the above link. The author is not just making a parody; he is SERIOUS.

  144. Arwen4CJ says:

    Wow……the author and his followers need serious help. :( They are Anti-Christ food.

    What’s Constance Cumbey’s blog again?

  145. Craig says:

    It’s here:

    http://cumbey.blogspot.com/

    …in the most recent thread.

  146. Arwen4CJ says:

    I read the youtube comments in favor of the book — so sad. :( Those in favor of the book were being deceived. They had no idea that what the author was promoting was New Age doctrine, finding our own divinity, etc. The author even commented on one one of the positive comments, and he says something like “I wish everyone realized their own divinity.” Still, people didn’t get it.

    This is exactly how those in more theologically liberal and social justice oriented churches are deceived. They don’t actually understand what these people are saying, but they think it sounds warm and fuzzy, and because it is related to Scripture in some way, they just accept what the person says. Then they are curious to read more books by the author. They also read books by those who write similar things, and they see the same stuff keep popping up. So it seems familiar to them.

    So then they start investigating more “spirituality” of this nature — and they start doing contemplative prayer and meditation, and they get “revelations” of their own….and pretty soon they’re all caught up in it, going deeper and deeper into it until they accept blatant New Age/New Thought.

  147. Ah ha, I was wondering what y’all were up to. I suddenly realized I had to attend Crosswise confession as it has been at least a week since my last comment. Am off to bed now but will read up on this tomorrow (and by the looks of it watch a few videos). More of the usual madness, I see. I hope you are well, Craig & Arwen!

  148. Craig says:

    Death panels – those that Sarah Palin talked about, and was ridiculed for – are being taught in high school:

    https://www.redstate.com/ulyssesarn/2013/10/10/illinois-high-school-students-given-death-panel-assignment/

  149. We used to do these at uni many years ago. Only they had 3 – 5 choices and none differed much from each other. That was the point back then, I think. When people are similar, to each other, and to you, I guess it is supposed to make the decision harder and therefore it requires more honest thought. In the situation in this article, it is cleary designed to show up supposed ‘bias’ which of course children have plenty of (as if adults don’t!!). Which makes it incredibly dishonest and unethical. Ironic really, teaching children ‘ethics’ through unethical means.

    I used to attend a group therapy session back in my wilder days, with a nurse who had been an aid worker in Africa during the terrible famine in Ethiopa. I will never forget her description of having to bring the children forward, and see which ones could stand up on their own to determine which children were closer to death. Those closer to death were not fed, as they were likely to die anyway. Suffice to say, this woman had a lot of grief and trauma from her expereriences. Death panels of this type may be a part of life in during a crisis, but surely they are not things we need to train our children in.

    Craig, great warning on Alex Jones. Clearly he serves a purpose, but he hangs with some very dark and disurbing characters at times. Someone to be cautious of.

  150. Craig says:

    I like the first comment, in which it is stated:

    The offensive part is adding race to the equation. Whatever happened to judging by the content of character not the color of skin?

    Of course, I don’t think the individual is advocating any portion of the assignment. He’s just pointing out one of the things that struck me. For example, with all other things equal, should race be a deciding factor? Really?!

  151. MaryM says:

    Common Core Education has become law in many states – so far it’s not in VA – officially. Back in the late 80s-early 90s it was a big deal but appeared to go dormant til now. Exercises like that are about desensitizing people (especially the young – always go after the youth) about the value of a life – no matter how strong, weak, sick, well, etc., it’s all about how ‘useful’ they are.

    There are many in academia who think there are too many people on earth, and believe they are saving the planet (the planet – including bugs, plants, & animals – is more important than humanity in the ‘green’ agenda) by reducing the population…not to mention the health profession is going to become either more and more out of reach or flat out denial of treatment for many who are sick. Katherine Sebelius (sp?) already demonstrated the death panels this summer by refusing to give a waiver to the little girl who needed the lung transplant (it became a decision by government rather than by doctors/patients) – she said ‘some will live and some will die’…this attitude is becoming more ‘normal’ day by day.

    Common Core also focuses on the esoteric – yoga, TM, visualization/relaxation techniques, and dumbs-down actual learning – no more memorization (we had to memorize various historical documents – now they barely even teach anything about them – Bill of Rights, Constitution, Declaration of Independence, etc. But they know about Marilyn Monroe, etc.) – more about self-esteem than critical thinking.

    Satan’s goal is to be worshiped as god and comes in many ways and from many directions to kill and destroy those who won’t.

  152. Craig says:

    I’m delighted to have such well-informed commenters!

    Common Core is all about spreading the New Age ideals. Population reduction is a definite goal. The whole Green movement (and rewilding) is about attempting to get the earth, or I should state “Earth”, back to its Edenic (like Garden of Eden) state. The idea is that this is a sort of prerequisite for actually returning to the Garden, with the thought that the Garden of Eden was not actually physical, but a spiritual state from which men fell. Not sure how this will purportedly occur…

  153. Here in Australia we have had national standards and assessment for a while. Now we have a new national curriculum, which is very ‘new age’ and very poor in its standards and absent in true science and history. I had researched education 8 years ago when deciding where to send my son (I chose a Montessori school). In the years since, I have periodically read people like John Taylor Gatto, John Holt and Alfie Kohn as well as others on the issues of mass public schooling. Now I can’t afford the private Montessori school, my kids go to part-time to a tiny public school for the past 2 years. All of a sudden, these issues have become pressing!

    As we were introducing our national curriculum two years ago, I was starting to notice this issue arising in the US, with concerns about the Common Core. Having done a fair bit of reading on it, I found it very helpful to examine the issues in the US…they are very similar to here, only few seem to notice it here. As I have said before, being a small, fairly socialist nation, we seem to drink the kool-aid of new age globalization far more readily than you guys in the States. :-)

    Anyway, I have researched a lot of stuff about the Australian education system, what teachers are being trained in, and the actual content and goals of the curriculum. It is very clearly about indoctrinating children to be good global citizens as defined and guided by the UN. For example, even science is taught with a consensus approach (ie. “What is your experience of gravity, let’s get together and discover our shared views”…as if that is science.) Even elementary school readers are full of the messages of environmentalism, diversity, and unity. Tolerance for everything and everyone…except of course intolerance, and Christians.

    This is a huge issue for Christian parents, and ties in with false teachings in the church that Craig has so well exposed. Many are blinded to what their children are being taught in schools as they are the same lies being taught in their charismergent churches. My heart goes out to you all in the States as your own education system is being destoyed, as ours is.

    I posted two John Taylor Gatto films on the subject of education, for anyone who is interested:

    http://thenarrowingpath.com/2013/10/03/documentary-the-ultimate-history-lesson-with-john-taylor-gatto/

    http://thenarrowingpath.com/2013/10/03/documentary-the-underground-history-of-american-education/

    http://thenarrowingpath.com/2013/05/11/debunking-the-case-for-national-standards-by-alfie-kohn/

    http://thenarrowingpath.com/2013/07/09/social-engineering-for-global-change/

    (Not expecting you to watch/read them, Craig. Just including them if someone is interested).

  154. Craig says:

    Yes, the goal is to turn out individuals amenable to the idea of “global governance”, AND with the view that the state is better able to take care of them than their parents. Moreover, critical thinking skills are not taught as part of their brainwashing – we don’t want them to actually consider the ramifications of what’s being/been taught.

    …(“What is your experience of gravity, let’s get together and discover our shared views”…as if that is science)

    I’ll adapt this somewhat: “What does this Bible passage mean to you…and you?” – as if that is proper exegesis of Scripture. I’ve been in Bible studies like this, and all this is is the New Age idea putting one’s own subjective opinion over what the text actually means in proper context. This is only one step removed from the New Age idea of experience trumping objective Truth.

  155. In relation to your original article (by the way, may I post both parts in full on my blog with links back to your site?)…Chris Rosebrough just did a review of a UK documentary called ‘Covert Messiah’.

    Here is the second part (you can find the first on his site) which starts at about 46:15 into the program:

    http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/10/the-agenda-of-the-covert-messiah.html

    It is a direct, blatant attack on biblical Christianity, under the guise of ‘proof’ that Jesus was merely a Roman invention for political purposes. However, as it progresses, it becomes clear that it is promoting ancient pagan/gnostic views and the destruction of dogmatic, literal Christianity (Chris just reviews part of it, which takes about 10 mins). It is clearly threatening Christians, and absolutely in line with the required ‘paradigm shift’ that most of the world is now preaching. It seems clear such ventures are inspired by the same spirit that invades our churches.

    I should qualify this by saying the person who has made this film has no qualifications or evidence for his claims. But when has that ever stopped others from believing such rubbish? But still, it is yet more proof that there is an escalating, overt hostility towards true Christians, and of course, Christ himself.

  156. Craig says:

    Sherryn,

    The claim is so patently ridiculous that it should not be taken seriously at all. Even 2nd century Gnostics explicitly affirmed the existence of Jesus; they just denied His deity. There is so much extant written evidence of Jesus’ existence – whether one believes He was the Son of God or not – to make the claims of this guy laughable. I saw this ‘news’ last week some time.

    Here’s a very short post by early NT era scholar Larry Hurtado on this: http://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/flimflam-of-the-month-covert-christianity/

    He closes with this parenthetical remark:

    (Oh well, as a colleague noted, if Jesus was invented by the Romans, then, obviously, he couldn’t have been married to Mary Magdalene! I love when the weirdo-theories people cancel each other out.)

    Sure you may post the articles.

  157. Agreed Craig, it is absurd. :-) I missed this in the news, and was quite confident that Chris Rosebrough had debunked it (not that I believed it, but it was a great program as I learn a lot about how to approach these things). I agree will not be taken seriously in the academic or theological world. I do like the end comment of the article you linked, thanks!

    However, when I see the outlandish things people believe (as evidenced by the bizarre stuff they post on Facebook, and of course, by Bethel Church!!) I am not confident it would be ignored by those who believe everything they see on the History channel or the BBC. Given the number of professing Christians who thought The Bible series was biblical (yeah, like a program made by the History Channel which is half owned by Disney and half by The Hearst Company that owns Oprah and O magazine was going to be biblically accurate), I don’t hold out much hope for discernment amongst non-believers should this get onto TV. Hence my raising it here…due to the overt new age anti-Christian message. Sadly, even if only a few hundred people ever watch it, it still is a few hundred more who have heard the hateful message against Christianity.

    But not to worry, it is not a huge concern to me. Not like Bethel Church and those mad NAR prophets of doom. (Are you ready for Patricia King’s Big Tent Revival this month in Arizona – it’s free!!) :-( I just agreed with Chris that the fanciful theories about Jesus did not appear to be the true purpose of the program, but rather the underlying new age message and the attack on Christianity seemed to be the point they wanted to hammer home. I expect we will see this more and more.

  158. I just posted both these two articles, thanks. :-) I have been a bit distracted of late so needed to catch up and post some meaty stuff. I also just posted 5 parts of a 7 part series by Dr Gary Gilley, who you most likely know of. The series is on spiritual formation and the contemplative practices. I will leave it a week and post the rest. Like your articles, they are well researched and make for excellent reading.

  159. Arwen4CJ says:

    Since there are “biblical” scholars out there who claim that Jesus never existed, then having someone state that Jesus was invented by the Romans is just a different twist on the whole “Jesus was invented” idea. Some of them may already believe Jesus was invented by the Romans. Some may have thought just a group of people invented Him, and Christianity was born.

    Some of these same scholars who deny Jesus also embrace New Thought, so they might make more scholarly articles that would seem to be more credible. :( Or they might give their endorsement to the documentary.

  160. Craig says:

    Arwen4CJ,

    I could be wrong, but as far as I know, most (if not all) other religions affirm a historical Jesus. They just deny His deity in one way or another. Even the docetists – which had sort of the reverse of most Gnostics, claiming His body was a phantom because deity could not also be human, based on their spirit/matter dualism – affirmed a ‘Jesus’, albeit one who is not actually human but resembling one. Who explicitly denies a historical Jesus besides this the-Romans-made-it-all-up-theory guy?

  161. Craig says:

    On Cumbey’s blog someone had posted this article detailing increased suicides in the USA. Notable was the sharp increase in middle aged males:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/health/suicide-rate-rises-sharply-in-us.html?_r=2&amp;

    Here’s a particularly poignant statement in the comments section:

    Before my husband killed himself in November of 2009, we had made plans for our first trip to France. My spouse had been stationed three different times in Germany. He loved Europe.

    I practiced my French religiously. Then he was gone. My doctor and colleagues encouraged me to still go.

    30 hour trip to Paris from Honolulu. For three weeks I immersed myself in French culture…I spoke to everyone I could..in French. I dressed well, was polite, and everyone thought I was from Canada instead of the USA. (Les Etats-Unis)

    I talked to shopkeepers, business men on the Metro, people seated next to me at the French Open…my spouse and I were doubles players. I talked with the doyennes at all the great museums, I sat at outdoor cafes on the Champs-Elysees for hours. I sat and cried at the Arc de Triomphe by the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier from WWI.

    For three weeks NOT ONE FRENCH CITIZEN ASKED ME WHAT I DID FOR A LIVING!! Not one!! I asked them all: “Why doesn’t anyone ask me what my job is?”

    And they all said: “Because your job is not who you are!!!” Here in the USA our second or third question we ask anyone is “Hey what do you do for a living? Where do you work?”

    We define ourselves in America by our profession. But I am not JUST a medical doctor! You all are not JUST business men, lawyers, teachers, writers…

    But here in America that is EXACTLY how we define ourselves! We lose our job? We no longer know who we are.

  162. Carolyn says:

    Luke 21:26
    King James Version (KJV)
    26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

    I always thought this was talking about heart attacks, but it could also be suicidal attempts due to fear of the future. It looks pretty dark and intolerable on an ever increasing scale. Lay-offs, closures of large companies, government cut-backs, etc. If culture dictates how we view ouselves, than many of us are in trouble. There is a huge dissonance in our ability to cope when our “normal” becomes “abnormal”.

    Suicide is an alternative for faith. I’m not glib in saying that. I’ve had my own Job-type experiences that have driven me to despair and mired my faith. Because of that, I can say with confidence that if we can accept what God says instead of our own considerations and get the focus off the circumstances, then God himself, will restore our faith. And what can we leave this world with but faith? What will sustain us in defying circumstances but real and genuine faith? In Christianity, that’s who we are.

    In the Christian culture, so many think they have real faith. But God knows different.

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